I think I have the worst insomnia in the world, and I'm thinking of finding out.

[junctionalfunkie]

DP and others with chronic insomnia: ya'll really need to give acupuncture a stab (ha ha). I had difficulty sleeping since childhood (once went six consecutive nights without a wink of sleep in 2003) and 2-3 sessions of acupuncture fixed me right up. I need an adjustment session every few months, but that's all. It really is amazing therapy for lots of ailments.

Vigorous daily exercise helps a lot, too.

 

[thelung]

have you tried taking, like 600mg of Seroquel? you really have insomnia problems if 600mgs of Seroquel won't put you to sleep! Good luck man, i'd say go for it on the Europe thing. Go on an adventure... ever read Shantaram?

 

[Thick_as_a_Planck]

Well, I live in Southern Italy now and you're welcome to stay with me any time.

Plus, I have a sofa-bed in the spare room but it's reeaallly uncomfortable, so you've got no chance of sleepiing on it. You'll feel right at home!

 

[MC6416]

I would start working out weight training and cardio everyday. Along with the multivitamins and a better diet. Cut out all caffiene and as much suger as possible. I have been up for three days coming off a methadone wd 3 months at 20-40mg per day. Not that bad i suppose but i went cold turkey the first week then switched to short acting lower dosed opiated the second and have been taking less than 1mg of suboxone a day for the last three days i think... Anyway i have only slept for 1 1/2 hours in over 55hours... I just hit a workout about 25 minutes ago and it worked wonders. Nothing special just pushups crunches pullups and squats for like 15 minutes. I feel normal right now i think i may be even getting a bit tired. I start my new job tommorrow LOL hopefully i can at least sleep for 2 more hours so i dont start hallucenating from sleep dep the first day of work. Yeah but healthy living is always the best way to go. Try it what have you got to lose? All beneficial no negatives about living healthy.

 

[fresh basil]

Hard core insomnia sufferer here. Have lived with it for many years. I also have Major Depressive Illness and GAD. I've spent many years keeping a very regular bedtime/wake up schedule, going to bed ~9:30pm and waking up at 6:00am for work. Unfortunately, in addition to the severe insomnia, I'm also someone who needs 9-10 hours of sleep every night to be fully functional during the day. Fabulous.

My insomnia is a 2-part problem. One is inability to fall asleep as well as inability to stay asleep. For years I would go to bed at 9:30 (and I'd be sleepy by that time), and I'd toss and turn for 4-5 hours. I'd fall asleep for 1-2 hours and wake up again. Repeat a couple more times, and the alarm clock would go off at 6am, and I'd feel like absolute hell, as if I had gone on an alcohol binge the night before. It was horrible.

I've been working with the same psychiatrist for 10 years now, and it took TWO YEARS of trial and error with different drugs and dosages to finally find a combination of meds that would PUT me to sleep and KEEP me asleep. We'd fairly easily find a drug that would do one or the other, but nothing that would do both, and I mean we tried EVERY drug labeled for sleep as well as others off-label.

After so many years of suffering and ill health because of my insomnia, I've been sleeping well (for the most part) for a couple of years now. But it takes these drugs and these exact dosages for me to fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling refreshed:

Rozerem - 16mg
Trazadone - 100mg
Chlorpromazine - 25mg
Xanax XR- 1mg (4th mg for the day)

I have always exercised, didn't do anything to help. Rarely drink because of the 4mgs of Xanax....don't want to play Russian roulette with my life. Don't use other psychiatric drugs except Wellbutrin 400mg/day, don't use any other drugs that would aggravate insomnia. I did take Oxycodone recreationally on and off for several years, and the last time I did it I realized I'd taken it too far, and spent about 5 hours high as I've ever been, nodding in and out, and scratching myself the entire time. I decided I didn't want to have to worry about not waking up and leaving behind a motherless child, so I stopped that.

Living with depression for 30 years and GAD for 8-10 years has been a big challenge and has impacted my life in many unfortunate ways. Living my life tethered to bottles of Xanax 4x/day for the past 5 - 6 years has not been pleasant, neither emotionally or physically, (btw....."high" on Xanax? ......from the very first one I took way back when, I've never felt a single thing from it except reduction of anxiety symptoms.....no sedative effect, no "euphoria", no nothing). Anyway, what I'm getting at here is that with these other struggles, I can say without hesitation that the insomnia has been far more brutal on my mind, body, and spirit than the other problems.

People who have never dealt with chronic, severe insomnia/sleep deprivation have poo-pooed me over the years...."Exercise more"...."Take a yoga class"...."Tylenol PM always works for me".... 8)

It's good to see here that at least other people know how bad it can be, and how lack of sleep can suck the very life out of you. Many times it was so bad night after night after night I would become physically ill and then delusions would set in. To those suffering with no medical intervention and trying to self-medicate, I would implore you to see a physician to get some help, if at all possible. There are a multitude of medications formulated for insomnia and others appropriately used off-label, plus natural remedies and a variety of other treatment modalities, that nobody should have to suffer from such an insidious disorder - that most people do not understand and/or minimize.

Edit to add: I am prescribed 1mg/4x/day, but I rarely take the 4th dose. Only during times of heightened anxiety or stress do I take all 4mg. I usually try to get by (and am usually successful) taking 3mg/day.

 

[dilated_pupils]

have you tried taking, like 600mg of Seroquel? you really have insomnia problems if 600mgs of Seroquel won't put you to sleep!

Try 1200mgs not doing anything after 2 or so days, yes I said 1200mgs of seroquel. My first two days in a detox facility around two years ago they gave me 8mgs suboxone, and 800mgs seroquel at the same time. I was so messed up I was outside smoking a cigarette with all the other people in rehab/detox and I fell off the bench and landed on my back, got up and walked around all wobbly. That night around 2-3am the people who worked there came in and ransacked my room saying they had a tip I was using dope while in detox (not true, it was the seroquel that knocked me on my ass). They went back and checked out the guys room who had given them the tip and he had something like 2 bundles of dope in his room, bastard.

Well, I live in Southern Italy now and you're welcome to stay with me any time.

Plus, I have a sofa-bed in the spare room but it's reeaallly uncomfortable, so you've got no chance of sleepiing on it. You'll feel right at home!

Ahh, I'm half Italian I'd love to come to Italy. I may take you up on your offer some time soon, seriously.

And fresh basil, I have tried so many different medication combinations I am doubtful there is anything other than a large dose of some nice cocktail IVed into me that would help me sleep. I honestly would IV whatever it would take to knock me out if I could, but I don't have any IV-able drugs at my disposal unfortunately. Not to mention I'd rather stay away from needles, but if it was something that promised me sleep, I'd do it in a split second.

I am going to try and get back into my weight training/cardio, since now that I'm dropped my nortriptyline dose in half I'm losing weight like crazy (finally!) and I feel like if I work out now it may actually help me get fit again. With all the meds I've been on, it has been hard to gain muscle and lose the little bit of fat that has gathered from taking the medications. I've never been 'fat' but I gained a bunch of weight from my meds when I started my new ones at detox; the seroquel and suboxone made me gain 25 pounds in a month.

Now, in the past 2-3 weeks, I've lost over 10 pounds I'm going to try and get my six pack back, hope it works out. I still got the muscle, it just is hidden behind a little layer of fat. My lower body is all muscle still, and my shoulders are still quite strong but everything else is out of shape I must admit, so it's time to get my nice body back!

-dp

 

[fresh basil]

And fresh basil, I have tried so many different medication combinations I am doubtful there is anything other than a large dose of some nice cocktail IVed into me that would help me sleep. I honestly would IV whatever it would take to knock me out if I could, but I don't have any IV-able drugs at my disposal unfortunately. Not to mention I'd rather stay away from needles, but if it was something that promised me sleep, I'd do it in a split second.

I am going to try and get back into my weight training/cardio, since now that I'm dropped my nortriptyline dose in half I'm losing weight like crazy (finally!) and I feel like if I work out now it may actually help me get fit again. With all the meds I've been on, it has been hard to gain muscle and lose the little bit of fat that has gathered from taking the medications. I've never been 'fat' but I gained a bunch of weight from my meds when I started my new ones at detox; the seroquel and suboxone made me gain 25 pounds in a month.

Now, in the past 2-3 weeks, I've lost over 10 pounds I'm going to try and get my six pack back, hope it works out. I still got the muscle, it just is hidden behind a little layer of fat. My lower body is all muscle still, and my shoulders are still quite strong but everything else is out of shape I must admit, so it's time to get my nice body back!

-dp

dp, I can totally understand your drive for sleep to lead you to want to IV about anything to *get* that sleep. Unfortunately, IVin'g wouldn't be the long-term solution to your insomnia. But I truly can understand your feeling of desperation. When I went through the period of having delusions from lack of sleep, I was afraid I might really die. And like you, I wasn't looking for any kind of high, I was only looking for SLEEP!

And good on you for getting back into serious exercising. It's good for the body and soul, and even if it doesn't help you sleep (it doesn't help me), it will give you the feeling of accomplishment and determination that can only do good! I also understand about the weight gain from meds. I was on Neurontin for quite awhile, until one day I discovered I'd gained about 15lbs, but I didn't know it was from the Neurontin, so I continued taking it. After gaining 20lbs. (my normal weight is only ~117), I talked to my doctor and he said, "Oh yes, that's probably the Neurontin"

Good luck to you. It took sooo long to find the combination of drugs to offer me regular, sound sleep. I hope your doctor(s) can find something that will work for you too. Nice to meet ya.

BTW.....have you by chance tried Remeron? That was one of the meds my psychiatrist had me try, and it sure did knock me right out, but I couldn't wake up the next morning, so that was off the table. I know some very drug resistant insomniacs who got relief from Remeron, without the next day grogginess. Just a thought..

 

[Lifeandtimes]

Mike Jackson had a pretty bad sleep problem as well.

 

[fresh basil]

Mike Jackson had a pretty bad sleep problem as well.

Yep, and IV'ing didn't serve him well. Even with a doctor administering.

 

[paranoid android]

Why do you think a IV cocktail of drugs is the answer? Something like midazolam IV is going to knock you out at the right dose sure but it's very short acting and youl probably feel worse waking up then if you hadent slept. Also i imagine a IV midazolam addiction would be fucking terrible beyond words. A IM shot of say chlorpromazine which is good old thorazine will knock you out for a long ass time but youl feel like absolute shit waking up.

Keep up working out and eating right as that will help. I can't say much about laying off the drugs for sleep because i havent fallren asleep naturally in ages. It's always something to help me sleep even if it's only hydroxyzine with my other meds.

Talk to your doctor about trying something other then seroquel to help you sleep because obviously youve become way too tolerant to that. Im not a doctor so i can't very well tell you what to take.

 

[Lifeandtimes]

whats the lowest dose for seroquel is it 6.25 mg? is there a lower does than that? i might take it for sleep

 

[paranoid android]

whats the lowest dose for seroquel is it 6.25 mg? is there a lower does than that? i might take it for sleep

The lowest dose pill ive seen is 25mg's. That would be a good starter dose for sleep and it's nowhere near a anti-psychotic dose.

 

[Sweet P]

^ Yeah, 25mg is the lowest I've heard of. It's probably a good starter, but personally, that dose does nothing for me. I usually need between 50-100mg's at night to fall asleep.

 

[Lord]

I used to be an insomniac, but twenty dramamine tablets did the trick, and helped me sleep for two months. I wouldn't recommend it though. Now that I've recovered from that experience and given up weed, the trouble is coming back. Sleep deprivation is also bad for memory and clarity of thinking, not to mention grammar.
Personally, depression makes me more sleepy but less able to sleep. An hour-long walk helps, but don't do it less than a few hours before bedtime. Part of why I don't go to school is because the time at which I sleep keeps changing. I've probably slept almost as much through the day as I have through the night.

And not two months straight, just during the night, obviously.
Good luck with sleeping. I'd like to give you useful information, but I'm too tired to think, yet I can't sleep.

 

[Lifeandtimes]

The lowest dose pill ive seen is 25mg's. That would be a good starter dose for sleep and it's nowhere near a anti-psychotic dose.

cool. i ended up going to sleep without having to take it but didn't sleep long enough and ended up waking up at 4am. Now i gotta stay up till 9pm then i might pop the pill to get somewhat relaxed and sleep till 6am. Has that happened to u that u end up waking up super early but stay in bed forcing urself to sleep for another 5 hours, is that bad for the brain?

 

[ranimal]

There may be parasites at work

Everyone's digestive track has good bacteria and bad bacteria. When the bad bacteria loads-up, the parasites tend to really dig in to you during the night - especially when you are sleeping, or trying to sleep.

I drink a half fresh squeezed lemon diluted in warm/hot water every morning 20 minutes before a meal for 8 days once a month.

I slacked off for about 12 weeks and by the end I couldn't get a good nights rest if my life depended on it. I got back in to the lemon water and now I'm sleeping like a baby once again.

My digestion is slowed from my pain meds so it's important that I stay on top of the lemon water regimen. I should probably be doing it i week on, 1-week off minimum.

You also need a balanced diet and some good exercise or your sleep will suffer - especially as you get older.

Good luck.

P.S. There's also melatonin which is a herbal sleep remedy. Warning tho, the dreams it induces are on par with opiate dreams - weird shiat.

 

[dilated_pupils]

And good on you for getting back into serious exercising. It's good for the body and soul, and even if it doesn't help you sleep (it doesn't help me), it will give you the feeling of accomplishment and determination that can only do good! I also understand about the weight gain from meds. I was on Neurontin for quite awhile, until one day I discovered I'd gained about 15lbs, but I didn't know it was from the Neurontin, so I continued taking it. After gaining 20lbs. (my normal weight is only ~117), I talked to my doctor and he said, "Oh yes, that's probably the Neurontin"

Good luck to you. It took sooo long to find the combination of drugs to offer me regular, sound sleep. I hope your doctor(s) can find something that will work for you too. Nice to meet ya.

BTW.....have you by chance tried Remeron? That was one of the meds my psychiatrist had me try, and it sure did knock me right out, but I couldn't wake up the next morning, so that was off the table. I know some very drug resistant insomniacs who got relief from Remeron, without the next day grogginess. Just a thought..

First, thanks, I haven't gotten myself completely back into lifting again yet but I'm slowly coming back to it. I just cleaned all my weights off the other day, and I just got a small gym set for Christmas from a family member that I'm putting together and it came with a dvd so maybe that will help motivate me.

When it comes to Remeron, yes I have had it. I was given Remeron when I was in grade school along with my adderall since the adderall would make it hard to sleep at night, they give lower than the anti-depressant amount needed for sleep and it used to work for me when I was a kid, but I tried ti again and no luck

Why do you think a IV cocktail of drugs is the answer? Something like midazolam IV is going to knock you out at the right dose sure but it's very short acting and youl probably feel worse waking up then if you hadent slept. Also i imagine a IV midazolam addiction would be fucking terrible beyond words. A IM shot of say chlorpromazine which is good old thorazine will knock you out for a long ass time but youl feel like absolute shit waking up.

Keep up working out and eating right as that will help. I can't say much about laying off the drugs for sleep because i havent fallren asleep naturally in ages. It's always something to help me sleep even if it's only hydroxyzine with my other meds.

Talk to your doctor about trying something other then seroquel to help you sleep because obviously youve become way too tolerant to that. Im not a doctor so i can't very well tell you what to take.

pa, you know me well enough from the boards I would think, I'm not all about trying to find an IV cocktail for me to use to help me sleep, but I would take it in a second if I knew it'd help me sleep normall. I used to get midazolam from a source online and one of the first things I tried doing was shooting it. Doesn't work for me, I didn't even get high (although I forget how much I tried shooting).

For all of you reading this thread, you need to realize that my other medications make it hard for me to even knock myself out. Being on benzos for over 7 years now has made my tolerance so large I cannot get high on a benzo if I try. I took 60mgs of klonopin and drank and felt nothing, swear. So benzos wont do the trick unless I'm trying to kill myself (which I'm not right now, ha).

Question for all though, have any of you (other than the one guy who said he takes it in this thread) taken Ramelteon, marketed as Rozerem? Since it works on different receptors then other sleep medications such as Ambien for example (which does not work at all for me, and yet works for the rest of my family go figure) I'm hoping it does the trick, although I'm not going to get my hopes up.

For those of you who are wondering what it's like yourselves, I'm going to the doctors this Friday and getting my script so I'll let you all know if it works for me (not getting hopes up).

Everyone's digestive track has good bacteria and bad bacteria. When the bad bacteria loads-up, the parasites tend to really dig in to you during the night - especially when you are sleeping, or trying to sleep.

I drink a half fresh squeezed lemon diluted in warm/hot water every morning 20 minutes before a meal for 8 days once a month.

I slacked off for about 12 weeks and by the end I couldn't get a good nights rest if my life depended on it. I got back in to the lemon water and now I'm sleeping like a baby once again.

My digestion is slowed from my pain meds so it's important that I stay on top of the lemon water regimen. I should probably be doing it i week on, 1-week off minimum.

You also need a balanced diet and some good exercise or your sleep will suffer - especially as you get older.

Good luck.

P.S. There's also melatonin which is a herbal sleep remedy. Warning tho, the dreams it induces are on par with opiate dreams - weird shiat.

Huh, you know I never thought of the digestion as being a proble, and since I'm on suboxone obviously my body is not naturally regulating its digestion. You really think that lemon water could help me sleep?

-dp

 

[CBRworm]

I do feel your pain.

I have been in the same situation for a number of years and have gone to pretty extreme measures to get some sleep.

I am more than a little concerned that I won't wake up one day after my quest for sleep.

I have been through multiple sleep doctors and sleep studies to no avail. more than one of my sleep studies have been inconclusive because I never fell asleep during the night despite taking whatever they gave me along with the xanax & benadryl I took before getting there that they didn't know about. They said it is very rare for someone to be locked in a dark room all night with no electronics or books and not sleep at least a little.

If I ever find a solution I will post it here - it seems that there is a fair amount of insomnia floating around this board.

 

[dilated_pupils]

I have been through multiple sleep doctors and sleep studies to no avail. more than one of my sleep studies have been inconclusive because I never fell asleep during the night despite taking whatever they gave me along with the xanax & benadryl I took before getting there that they didn't know about. They said it is very rare for someone to be locked in a dark room all night with no electronics or books and not sleep at least a little.

If I ever find a solution I will post it here - it seems that there is a fair amount of insomnia floating around this board.

This is why I have not even bothered doing any of the sleep studies. I was just asked if I'd go by a family member the other day with them, but the more I thought about it I realized I'd literally just be locking myself in a room and making my anxiety feel horrible because I know I wouldn't sleep. I'm not going to waste my time being in a locked room with insomnia with no electronics or at least a book, lol. I know I should try to go to some sort of sleep study, but I don't know as of right now I am more concerned about my mentality right now because of my sleep deprivation.

I just re-read my post above and I spelled like 5 words wrong - well not even wrong I just put like the middle letters down and left out the beginnings and ends... this shit has been becoming much worse lately. With the added 25mgs (now 125mgs a day) of lamictal things have gotten worse since, I'm wondering if that is causing my memory problems alongside the sleep deprivation.

This past week all I've been doing is going out to the bar with friends and drinking myself 'til closing then getting a ride back and trying to fall asleep right away. But I can't keep doing this forever, I really do not wish to be an alcoholic, and I don't think I could be one - although it may not be an option in the long haul, it may just be inevitable

-dp

 

[static_mind]

I used to be pretty bad in high school. Id often sleep every second day. The nights just lieing there unable to shut off ones mind was horrid and if often ride to the beach and wait for the sun to come up and go for a surf. Lots of drunk clubbers would be like "wtf is this kid doing here its 4am"

At one point I didn't sleep friday night and sat night, only drinking beer no other drugs (sunday I took caffeine because at this stage I wanted to see how much longer I could go).

My sleeping still isn't the best but I discovered sleep seems to be largely related to excerise. I took up Krav Maga and started rideing 30km and that would tire me to sleep.

But iv since givin up on excerise, its too boring.