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I Suck At Sleeping

I used to have wild insomnia due to excessive drug use.
I am now using once every two to three months and my sleeping patterns still derail from time to time.

I believe our body clock plays a huge factor in this situation and the use of artificiall light.
If you think about the days where light didn't exist, when the sun would go down it'd be common sense to sleep.

I don't have much knowledge in regards to our body clocks but all I know is that doctors and psychiatrist strangely resist from talking about the topic. o.O

Here's a few tips that have helped me.

• If you're computer or television is in the same room as you're bed, separate the two.
• Create a Rec room and a room for sleeping.
• Go to bed at the same time every night regardless if you feel tired or not.
• Do NOT sleep during the day regardless if you feel tired or not.
• If you do not fall asleep within twenty minutes, get up, listen to some down tempo music and then try again.

Hope this helped.
 
Those sleep hygiene tips are good. The hardest part is actually doing them! For me, as a broke grad student who lives in a large studio apartment, I can't physically make another room, I have bed, tv, music, computer all together in one super comfy room.

But I can say trying to sleep at the same time does help. And though I was resistant to trying it, If I don't fall asleep right away, sometimes it does help to get up and read or listen to slow music for a bit, if nothing else it certainly helps with the frustration

I also seem to have a high tolerance for CNS depressants. OTC stuff like Benadryl seems to knock out my body but leave my mind racing. I haven't found anything that will do both. Ambien at 20mg still did nothing for me. Trazadone 150mg didn't do much more. Xanax helped but I was afraid of becoming addicted so I didn't keep filing the Rx. I now mainly stick to herbal/mental remedies.

I have a low tolerance for doctors/psychiatrists, so perhaps I just never gave them enough time to find the right 'cocktail' Though the though of being reliant on so many pills makes me just as frustrated as not being able to sleep in the first place. Its a cruel cruel circle.
 
I try to get out and walk, run, swim, ride a bike.... wear myself out. I have found that if I eat 3 reasonable healthy meals and 1 small snack wake up and go to sleep at the same time, dont lie down while watching tv..... my sleep improves greatly.

I haven't meditated but MANY people have recommended that to me.
 
there may be some underlying anxiety thats making your mind race once you try to sleep. if you try to suppress feelings all day (you may not do this on purpose, i guess you actually have stuff to do in the day!), they have to come out eventually, and the only time they can is when you finally stop, i.e. at night. if this is the case, then all the sleep hygeine in the world wont help.

you may not even know you're anxious- i actually find out that i'm anxious about things by noticing that they wreck my sleep! as its gone on all your life, it may be more generalised anxiety, which is a total bummer. i do have generalised anxiety problems, and like you have had a lifetime of sleep problems (which i now self medicate in very unwise ways). every time the sleep gets too bad i find working on my anxiety is far more effective at getting it back on track than working specifically on the sleep.

anyway really sorry to hear about that, its totally shit and you have my complete sympathy!
 
mgrady3 said:
Those sleep hygiene tips are good. The hardest part is actually doing them! For me, as a broke grad student who lives in a large studio apartment, I can't physically make another room, I have bed, tv, music, computer all together in one super comfy room.

But I can say trying to sleep at the same time does help. And though I was resistant to trying it, If I don't fall asleep right away, sometimes it does help to get up and read or listen to slow music for a bit, if nothing else it certainly helps with the frustration

I also seem to have a high tolerance for CNS depressants. OTC stuff like Benadryl seems to knock out my body but leave my mind racing. I haven't found anything that will do both. Ambien at 20mg still did nothing for me. Trazadone 150mg didn't do much more. Xanax helped but I was afraid of becoming addicted so I didn't keep filing the Rx. I now mainly stick to herbal/mental remedies.

I have a low tolerance for doctors/psychiatrists, so perhaps I just never gave them enough time to find the right 'cocktail' Though the though of being reliant on so many pills makes me just as frustrated as not being able to sleep in the first place. Its a cruel cruel circle.
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I understand your situation there and I guess the only thing you can do is to try and not use the bed for anything else but sleep itself. The main idea for separating the two is to psychologically train you're self to recognize the sleeping room as a sleeping environment witch would in it self help induce sleep.
So considering you're circumstances I guess you should not use the bed as a substitute for a chair or anything else for that matter because I know how tempting it is to just lie down on it at any time of day :)

Yesterday night I tired poppy seed tea and surprisingly enough, about 20 minutes after consumption I started to experience minimal sedative effects and about thirty minutes later I was pretty much ready to fall asleep.
The psychical and mental affects I must say, are certainly idealistic for someone who has sleeping problems, I also noticed that I had pretty wild dreams which were more memorable than usual once I had awoken. I recommend giving this a go however I am sceptical in regards to tolerance and if it builds quickly it would make it, in a sense, practically useless.

80% of the doctors I had seen about my sleeping problems offered quick fix solutions throwing a variation of prescribed medications my way. I suggest looking into human body clocks as I believe the real solution lies within it.

Hope this helped and good luck to you and you're sleeping problems.
 
mgrady3 said:
Those sleep hygiene tips are good. The hardest part is actually doing them! For me, as a broke grad student who lives in a large studio apartment, I can't physically make another room, I have bed, tv, music, computer all together in one super comfy room.

But I can say trying to sleep at the same time does help. And though I was resistant to trying it, If I don't fall asleep right away, sometimes it does help to get up and read or listen to slow music for a bit, if nothing else it certainly helps with the frustration

I also seem to have a high tolerance for CNS depressants. OTC stuff like Benadryl seems to knock out my body but leave my mind racing. I haven't found anything that will do both. Ambien at 20mg still did nothing for me. Trazadone 150mg didn't do much more. Xanax helped but I was afraid of becoming addicted so I didn't keep filing the Rx. I now mainly stick to herbal/mental remedies.

I have a low tolerance for doctors/psychiatrists, so perhaps I just never gave them enough time to find the right 'cocktail' Though the though of being reliant on so many pills makes me just as frustrated as not being able to sleep in the first place. Its a cruel cruel circle.
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Try 30mg Dalmane combined with 7.5mg Remeron and 3mg melatonin, if you can get a doctor to prescribe them to you. They're cheap and effective. You should discontinue the Ambien, if possible.

Sleep drugs I would stay away from are: Seroquel, Klonopin, Lunesta, Valium, Ativan, Soma, Xanax, Alcohol, Restoril, Sonata, Imovane, all the barbiturates, all the opiates (unless you have pain, opiates can cause insomnia) and all the benzodiazepines (except Dalmane) among others.

A good (safe) potentiating drug is 750-1500mg Robaxin.

Good luck!:)
 
Fantastic supplement(s) is/are salmon and/or flax oil. They are rich in substances needed for normal brain function. Three grams a day of "omega-3 fatty acids" is the maximum safe dose. More than that increases bleeding and stroke risk.

I actually get better anxiety relief from 3g of flax oil and 1.5g fish oil (per day) than from Klonopin!
 
I'll have to look into getting some fish oil and flax seed supplements. I am vegetarian but stil eat fish (pescetarian or vegequarian if you will), however I am trying to reduce the amount of fish I eat.

Any ideas on how much flax seed would supplement a diet in the same way as flax seed oil (presuambly extract)? Flax seed has been on my list of things to add to my diet anyway. It can be ground up and added to yogurt, cereal, granola, all sorts of things.

I'll also add that simply, some days I know I have trouble sleeping when it feels like I haven't done anything all day. Days when I have a busier schedule, a good exercise, diet, etc definitely lead to nights when its easier to fall asleep. So as general advice for sleeping, I'd say keeping a good schedule going and avoiding lounging on the couch w/ tv and computer all day long.
 
one of the ambien/sleeping threads in BDD reminded me of something I have failed to list any any of my responses to people asking about sleep 'medications':

To append to my list of RX, OTC, Herbal stuff I ave tried and (some) continue to use-
Weed.
Again, like Ambien, Weed affects people differently (different strains, tolerances, etc).
For me I used marijuana, mid grade nameless strain, with mixed success to deal with my insomnia.
It helped as much as anything else I tried but my case was a little more complicated than most people as CNS depressants just didn't have much of an effect.

What did help calm me down and relax the most was 0.5mg xanax orally plus a small amount of weed either in a small bowl or a spliff (small amount of tobacco + weed)
 
mgrady3 said:
I'll have to look into getting some fish oil and flax seed supplements. I am vegetarian but stil eat fish (pescetarian or vegequarian if you will), however I am trying to reduce the amount of fish I eat.

Any ideas on how much flax seed would supplement a diet in the same way as flax seed oil (presuambly extract)? Flax seed has been on my list of things to add to my diet anyway. It can be ground up and added to yogurt, cereal, granola, all sorts of things.

I'll also add that simply, some days I know I have trouble sleeping when it feels like I haven't done anything all day. Days when I have a busier schedule, a good exercise, diet, etc definitely lead to nights when its easier to fall asleep. So as general advice for sleeping, I'd say keeping a good schedule going and avoiding lounging on the couch w/ tv and computer all day long.
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I would recommend the flax oil. The seed is very difficult to digest. Two grams of fat from flax per day is enough. Along with 1.5g of omega-3 fish oil supplement, they are a powerhouse of cardiovascular and neurological protection.

If I happen to miss a week of these two oils, my anxiety becomes VERY noticeable. Almost as soon as I get back on them, I start to feel more mellow, less stressed and just generally more able to cope with any situation.

I have a job interview tomorrow, doubled up on the oils today and I'm unusually calm. (I have an Axis l anxiety disorder.)

Let me know how the oil supplementation goes. Good luck!
 
Have you tried exercising a lot? I have noticed that I am unable to sleep well (if at all) when I don't exercise at least a little throughout the day (I try to walk at least a few miles and such, and it makes a huge difference in whether or not I can sleep). I was reluctant to admit that my stagnant lifestyle had everything to do with my insomnia at first because, well, it kind of embarrassed me that I wasn't getting off my ass and doing anything on a physical level. I finally got sick of hearing my father and boyfriend continually recommend exercise and tried it again for the first time in a long while, mostly to shut them up :P It worked to my surprise so yeah, if you haven't tried it yet, definitely give it a shot. Other than that I don't know what else to recommend other than pills =/

Honestly, I think the main reason people are insomniacs is because of lack of exercise and a bad diet but most people seem to disagree (I think this is because they feel somewhat put off by being told they should get more physical). I can't say for sure but I doubt insomnia was such a rampant issue just a hundred years ago because people were so much more active. Nowadays we live a much more stagnant lifestyle and insomnia is definitely on the rise.

Okay, I'm stepping off my box now ;)
 
Honestly, I think the main reason people are insomniacs is because of lack of exercise and a bad diet but most people seem to disagree (I think this is because they feel somewhat put off by being told they should get more physical). I can't say for sure but I doubt insomnia was such a rampant issue just a hundred years ago because people were so much more active. Nowadays we live a much more stagnant lifestyle and insomnia is definitely on the rise.
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I'll get on your soap box if its OK.

You have inspired me to quote Eric Frohm- Americans are plagued by insomnia, they can never really sleep at night as they are never really awake during the day. Moderns, I'll say rather than Americans are constantly moving from one electronic trance to another. Not calling it good, bad, or indifferent but I suspect some of the benefit of walking is that you aren't in front of a device with rhythmic, entrancing set frames per second. I'm mostly an electronic zombie myself but I did get out and do some walking today so perhaps Morpheus will call at some point today.

Not denying the benefit of exercise in and of itself at all. Its great stuff!
 
I do exercise quite a lot; I'm an avid cyclist and it is my main mode of transit.

When my insomnia was getting to be its worst ( its manageable now) I was also playing water polo. We had practice at night, 9pm ish. I knew I'd not be able to sleep right away after that but even toward like 1am I was still not finding sleep.

Now it just comes and goes, some nights are fine and some (last night) it seems the more I tried the more i failed to sleep. Chamomile tea, Kava tea, going to bed early, reading for a while on the couch before moving to the bed, dimmed lights, finally a 500mg acetaminophen+diphenhydramine (had really sore knees so it was killing two birds with one stone sort of)
 
I have some random insomnia that I just try to roll with. If I know that I have to be awake (like really awake) for something important, I'll knock my self out with a klonopin, which works every time for me.

What makes me tired is:

working my ass off for days in a row
reading something informative but not gripping
listening to lectuures
strong indica
some herbal teas that I get from my local herb doctor
 
I find tea in general helps me out, as long as its caffeine free [or low caffeine], ie. most green teas, herbal stuff like hibiscus, rose hip, lemon balm, lemon grass, etc. I think its just having a hot drink that relaxes me.

Having just moved to a new part of the country for grad school, I wish I had a supply of strong indica. Thats what I wish I have pretty much every night. Hoping to meet someone who can help me out in that regard but honestly most people I have met have little knowledge about what they are actually smoking/dealing (weed wise)
 
I had sleeping problems, but then realized I was drinking coffee like crazy. Now after school+gym and with reduced caffeine intake i'm so tired I could just drop dead to my bed.
 
IME, all the exercise and good diet in the world can't stop insomnia if that insomnia is caused by anxiety. If you're hearts pumping like crazy as you're lying in bed (or even if you're experiencing much less pronounced symptoms of anxiety...), it doesn't matter if you ate a healthy dinner after a hardcore workout before hitting the hay.

So, though necessary, diet and exercise alone aren't sufficient to guarantee good sleep.
 
^^ that's a good point. Insomnia is hard for physicians to deal with (treat/diagnose etc) because there is no easy solution. There can be many underlying causes, anxiety, depression, etc. And many people have different reactions to standard treatments like Z-drugs[ Ambien, Lunesta], Benzos [Xanax, Klonopin], Anti-Depressants of various classes [tricyclics, tetracyclics, SSRIs, etc], OTC [benadryl], Herbal things and Teas, and other treatments like sleep hygiene, exercise, etc.

Things like sleep hygiene, diet, and exercise can help a lot but if the underlying cause is serious and going untreated then only so much can be done. The same can be said for all drug-like treatments. Ambien might help you sleep but is not exactly a 'cure' to insomnia. It treats a symptom but not the cause.
 
when I was taking amphetamines I took remeron, an anti-depressant to help me sleep. I was against taking an anti depressant but once I slept like a baby I was glad I took it:) I kept thinking well if I just workout more or make myself tired enough I can come down off the amphetamines naturally and crash.

Drugs or not you will crash but the beauty of sleeping pills is you can take them at say 8 pm and be out 30 minutes later. Sleeping medication can help you get on a consistent sleep schedule, which makes you feel so much more well rested the next day. You can theoretically get addicted but if you need something to help you fall asleep, then don't make yourself paranoid and say...oh I don't want to take a drug to help me fall asleep. It is not ideal but in terms of functioning it helps.
 
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