Opioids I need some advice...

[dimensionalz]

Thank you guys for responding to my questions, i'll take everything you said with me.

 

[perceptualvigilanc]

Semi synthetics like oxycodone and hydrocodone are often the most well tolerated opioid drugs for extended use. Any drug will cause exponential tolerance over time, use more to feel the effects, then even more, even more. The problem is that continued use effects the metabolic function of the brain. If you pull the plug on your use after a period of daily consumption, you will definitely have to adjust. That is the physical addiction, unavoidable. Now for those who have "psychological" problems, they may develop a psychological condition for drug use. This is the addiction that causes junkies. If you feel you are stable enough to use substances as a tool, proceed. The problem is that anyone who can use for days on end without losing interest in the feeling, tends to be self medicating and compensating for "problems". Heroine is not a good therapist. Also taper up your dose to asses tolerance and avoid over dose issues.

 

[dimensionalz]

Thank you all for responding to my thread. The thing is I have never used opis for a longer period of time. I've tried oxy and bupe, and both feel pretty good at small dosages, i'm really not hardcore and only redose max once on my sessions with tiny dosages. My only concern is the respiratory problems. The oxy feels good and itchy which I like, but when it's time to go to bed i'm really anxious about never waking up again. It was 4 months since I last used and before that I didn't use for 5 months either so I have never gained any tolerance. I know that all opis are safe (i think, someone correct me on this one) to the body organs which doesn't give me any anxiety feelings when taking it like taking something that is actually neurotoxic, livertoxic or whatever. As I said I've only used it as I would use beers and beverages on a friday night. And never get the feelings of "Ahhh i wanna feel like this for the rest of my life", I actually enjoy being sober too. My life situation is great and I feel a lot of joy from life. But I do really enjoy the sweet opi high (especially not mixed with something else, primary cannabis). Since Kratom is really hard to get by over here i'm left with these alternatives to use ocassionally instead. I know addiction is a possibility and I get a warm feeling in my heart from everyone warning me and giving me awesome harm reduction. As i said earlier, oxy makes me feel good but the anxiety about respiratory problems (even at small weak 'wussy' doses) is not nice at all, I even experienced that with 60mg codeine + shitty APAP... lol. But with bupe it's not like that, but cannabis can trigger those symptoms too while on bupe, haha. I recently gave up cannabis and only smoke a few hits when my friends lights up. My question is what my safest bet is here? Bupe never got me anxious from it alone, just sweet, mellow, warm, a little bit noddy and just 'alright'. But with oxy I think about the big warning sign "RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION". I've read that Kratom doesn't affect the brain in the same way due to different receptors etc, which sounds so sweet and just awesome. I mean a herb brewed in tea with almost zero worries, how awesome isnt that. Don't forget I'm not hardcore and don't tend to be... And I'm really concerned about my own well-being. I'm happy if someone would help, I have used before but never for extended periods of time and only want to use it to have a good weekend once every fourth month. So what's your opinion on what might be the best bet hence I have a hard time getting Kratom.. My friend told me bupe wouldn't hurt me too much and is my safest bet regarding shitty side effects. And also one thing more... I'm never ever going to experience a withdrawal, ewww, ill make sure of that. Peace and love and take care.

Yours sincerely, Dimensionalz

 

[Op eace]

Just want to reiterate what has already been said here, bro. I was/am extremely 'successful' career wise -- have a masters degree and a good job, etc. I loved the feelings that opiates gave me, but was extremely self controlled about my usage, for years. I have, however, like many others, slipped into opiate addiction over the past year and a half. I know you feel entirely in control right now, and feel no reason to stop your rare usage, but this is an extremely slippery slope and if you like the feelings that opiates give you, you ARE taking risks by continuing usage, albeit you are in control right now.

I know it's hypocritical to tell you never to use an opiate again, but be very careful man. If possible, please stay away. You are a lot more susceptible to addiction than you think you are right now. It progresses very slowly man. Be careful and if possible, please just completely abstain.

 

[dimensionalz]

So I just ordered some bupe, only 1x 8mg and thats all i'm gonna order, i'm very low on cash so i won't be able to order more and will not even consider ordering more even if i had the money. I'll sell the other half to someone who needs it even more than I do, to whom i don't know since I don't hang around with that kind of people. So my question is - how risky is bupe in terms of respiratory depression? I have used bupe several times before but not for extended periods of times and never gained any tolerance to it, this is my choice because I heard it's potentially not as dangerous as for example oxy. My only fear here is something dangerous happening to me while I'm having a fun time with small dosages of bupe. I know you think i should avoid it at all costs but I have done this several times before and never had a problem with it. I'm doing about 0,1-0,3mg at most and saving the rest i got for some other weekend.

 

[Flaga121]

I discovered Suboxone while attending a very expensive private college, in a Clinical Psychology program. Just to be VERY clear, one does not have to fit any stereotypes of an addict to become one. I has researched the substances I used, and I understood addiction quite well (I was studying it!). Still, one thing comes to another, and four years later I'm addicted to suboxone, attempting to ween myself off as we speak. It can happen to you, NO, give it long enough, it probably will.

There are tons of drugs for once in awhile highs, I feel comfortable recommending LSD, Mushrooms, Ketemine, Cannabis. Suboxone, because it is so long acting, is remarkably addictive. I have a Masters degree in Social Work (specific to Clinical work), I live a comfortable life and all, and yes I am still very much an addict. Please, Please, just realize it can happen to anyone. You sound so much like my college self, so sure self control and intelligence will beat the same drug that has devastated humanity forever.

 

[Coolwhip]

Just to remind everyone...

addiction != dependance

Also, I'm pretty sure the consensus is addictive personalities are a myth and have little to do with drug abuse.

What is far important and more likely to predict whether you can take drugs responsibly for any length of time, without slipping into habitual abuse, is the distinction between taking drugs to enhance reality or taking drugs to escape it.

People who use drugs to escape are the ones likely to quickly develop addictions and once addicted you will become dependent very quickly; but anyone can become dependent on drugs over time, irrespective of addiction. And if you take opiates long enough, no matter how careful you try to be, you WILL become dependent, even if you don't become addicted. It's a physiological response that you have absolutely no control over, short of ceasing all usage.

P.S. anyone who thinks addiction/dependence is a choice, or believes they have the strength, wisdom, and knowledge to avoid them has no business doing drugs. If you don't think you can fall victim to addiction/dependence just like anyone else and don't fear that outcome then you shouldn't be doing drugs. Fear of addiction/dependence is the only thing that can save you from it, and being cavalier about it will surely seal your fate.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Dependency and addiction are very different things. One can be physically dependent without being psychologically addicted, and vice versa.

 

[Coolwhip]

And as far as fear of respiratory depression...if you are choosing to go to bed, then you more than likely have nothing to worry about(as long as your dose has already reached its peak). It's when you are struggling to keep your eyes open that you need to be concerned.

 

[dimensionalz]

But how severly can bupe affect my respiratory system compared to other opis? I know that this is a very addictive substance, i'm very well aware of this. But note i'm not trying to escape from reality, I just wanna have a nice buzz with bupe instead of alcohol or cannabis. My gf hates opiates and have only taken codeine with APAP for pain, she hate the feeling of them and get's sick to the stomach, me on the other hand actually enjoys the high... I told her that i ordered some bupe to use on saturday and at first she was kind of pissed off but we made a deal where she controls my use, therefore I won't have access to my own supply... She is okay with me just using small doses recreationally as long as i'm in control and knowing what i'm doing, i don't plan to get addicted and as everyone says no one plans to become addicted, but using bupe in moderation is still a possibility right? I came here to bluelight because i'm only concerned about nasty side effects like respiratory depression, i'll only be doing doses around 0,1-0,3mgs since i don't want to get "really messed up", i'm just looking for the mild and mellow high... Getting high lies in our nature right? I have done LSD and mushrooms a lot and my experience with that was mega spiritual, my life has been better ever since and now i'm just looking for something that ain't that harmful to my inner body organs, the only bad thing about it is the addiction and i'm really concerned about that, but as I said, she's controls my use and i'm gonna let it be that way - for my own sake. It really nice to see people really caring about one another on this forum, i mean it's REALLY NICE. I wish i could get some kratom instead of bupe but it's really not worth the risk because it's illegal here so bupe it is because it's so much easier to get hold of without getting in any unnecessary problems with the law. But I still want to hear peoples experiences with bupe in terms of respiratory depression? That's my biggest fear next to addiction. It's too late now and I have already ordered the bupe and it might be here on thursday or friday. I might even save it for next weekend, It's not like im chasing to be high here. I'm just soooo tired of the stupid alcohol... I really appreciate you guys trying to save me from addiction and I'm really listening to what everyone is saying here since you have more experience with this kind of drugs than I do. I just don't wanna harm myself, that's my biggest concern. Peace out

Yours sincerely, Dimensionalz

 

[Flaga121]

Too long lasting to be used intelligently for a "high". Learned that the hard way personally.

And while dependence and addiction are not the same thing, dependence often leads to addiction. A little to much escaping in one week (without any of the classic addictive tendencies) turned into a nasty withdrawal. I couldn't take it, once I accepted that, my mindset towards the drug changed. I was an addict. Took me awhile to accept because I'm not an addict in the classic manner. My self control is through the roof, but I have to actually care for that to matter. Dark times = no care = too much = withdrawal = addiction (two years and counting).

Everyones different. But realize, your not as different as you think. Everything about my life is perfect, I have a great job making great money, recently obtained my masters degree in social work. But still, I have a strong chemical dependance to bupe, because I thought I could use it like coke, K, nitrous, mdma, cannabis, pcp, LSD, mushies. I thought I could take it to get high sometimes, and keep away the rest of the time. Stick to the other party drugs homie. I'm sure this is against the spirit of HR but in my mind its not, rail some K, drop Acid, eat mushies.

I'd rather the small risk of issues with the law over some illegal narcs then playing with fire. Either way, your biggest risk with getting high once or twice won't be RD, it'll be taking too high a dose to enjoy it. Unless you go way overboard you shouldn't have RD issues, but throwing up, feeling like shit, ect? That happens to most first time sub users with no real tolerance. I remember my first time, sick for 2 days because the asshat who recommended it to me didn't mention how long it would take to feel anything. He sat there watching me ingest a very mild (still painful) OD. And again, I have solid self control, i've never come anywhere close to an OD on any other substance. But my first time on subs...lol.

 

[VisceralChems]

since i live a pretty good life and have a lovely caring girlfriend who takes care of me really well i have no potential getting addicted

I'll skip most of the lecture part since most have already brought up a good points, I just wanted to point out these type of statements are why you are getting so much concern. Most people thought it couldn't happen, and I would guess most people started with very infrequent experiences. Regardless, you have the RIGHT mentality going about it in a safe manner, well informed, and sparse, but the WRONG idea that it isnt possible because xyz. Regardless, life is meant to have fun, so I applaud your careful approach.

Anyways, to your question, you are not getting any exact dosage answers because no one can do that, and probably shouldnt do that, because everyone is so different. The correct dose is the minimal effective dose...which is dependent on you. Bupe has been thrown around as a "safer" one because it is a partial agonist, but the problem with bupe is it is SO powerful, especially when you are talking about someone with no tolerance and getting it in 8mg strips. What are you doing to measure? Cutting it by eye? Dissolving in water? This detail even matters because bupe is 1.5x to 2x strong when dissolved in water. Therefore, lets say you were trying for your .3mg dose, dissolved it water, but then actually got the effect of a .6mg dose...get it? That is a big increase for the not tolerant. Also, it has been said before, but it stays in your system a long time, and is one of the fastest to become addicted to. In can remain in your system over 36 hours if taken sublingual, so you run a risk of building dependence unknowingly even if days breaks are taken. So your 8mg strip has a huge potential of getting you in a bad spot IMO. I am not sure I would recommend it for the reasons stated, as well as not knowing what the appropriate first time dose would be for someone non-tolerant.

The other options you mentioned, such as hydrocodone and oxycodone, and typically starting points because it is easier to know what standard RX doses are for those not tolerant...not to mention they are full agonist and thus have more high! Furthermore, they can be found in pre dosed pills of the desired amount. For example, 5mg pills are commonly prescribed to those without a tolerance. So if it is going to be done, then you should start low, and then find the lowest effective dose. Do not take doses just because your friends do, and dont make major jumps from your last dose, and you should be OK. The RD is very real, but I wouldn't panic about it with any of them if you are taking appropriate doses (which we cant give you ).

Hope that helps, have fun and be safe

 

[VisceralChems]

P.S. It sounds like you have experiences with it in the past, so as long as you were not nodding hard, I personally wouldn't be concerned with taking the same dose, and then having anxiety about when you go to sleep. If you are really concerned about RD, you should STAY AWAY from mixing with things like alcohol and benzo (CNS depressants). Also, if you are going to start low and redose, you need to understand how long it takes for a given substance to reach max plasma levels so you dont redose too soon. For oxy, I believe it is around 90 min (although usually I can feel max effect within half the time). For sub, I believe it is around 3 hours!

 

[Cliffy78]

Hey brother not sure if your still reading this thread but I just wanted to add my two cents to try and help ya if possible. Everyone who posted is right and you've heard it all but there was one thing u posted that concerned me a tad. Dude forget about that Xanax bro, IMO that's more dangerous than opiates(depending on which ones of course and amt). I've done them so don't misunderstand me I like a good buzz too but don't think xannies are a safer option. It all depends on your brain chem. which drug you'll be more likely to become addicted to. And they will mess with your breathing, more so than opiates IMO. And honestly I think you'd be better off taking oxy/hydro codone an regularly prescribed doses like 5mg tabs or something like that. Hey I know u wanna chill so I just think that would be a safer route for u to go brother. I'm sure skag and others know a lot more about the pharmacology and all that but I just wanted to weigh in for u man. I just don't think the subs are good at all as recreational drug, and definitly not much safer if any or they may be more dangerous. I personally think they're more dangerous but that's just my opinion. I'm a chronic pain patient so I've taken all these meds and I used to sell coke/weed as a kid. I've seen addiction(lots!!) and it's very expensive and destructive. Just be safe bro, ur gonna do ur thing so just be easy man. Take care bro, cliffy

 

[Pill__Head]

This is how it all starts buddy, just occasionally. thats what I thought too about two year ago.. then all of the sudden I find myself having to drop out of the universty, fuckn come home and live wit my family while I use.. im atleast now on maintenance, my mom had enough of me for ex. one time she videoed me noding so hard in the middle of the night making loud ass weird "labored breathing" noises, while i was totally out of it cuz i had no recalection of it the next morning, anyways while my head is complete limp, all the way tilted back while i'm sitting in a chair, nearly on the verge of death..when your breathing is loud enough to make someone across the house in the middle of the night hear it, yeah theres a fuckin' problem.. It wasnt until a couple months later I was "cleaner" on methadone that my mother showed me that video, and i was like WTF why did you wake me up and help me, i was almost dieing and your just video taping it!!

Long story short "recreation fun opiate use" is unheard of. its not real. the demons will slowly but surely crawl through you skin and suck the life out of you.

 

[JackBurton89]

no opiates are safe.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

I have the hunter thompson view on drugs.

I do not have archetypal views on drug use.

Use is not abuse.

I am very successful.

I think ROA is more telling than substance type, frequncy, or dose.

I don't personally use opiates or drugs.

 

[JackBurton89]

I used to be afraid of respiratory depression when I was taking the 80 mg ops because they would affect me way different each time due to the new formula. I would grind them up and eat them and sometimes I would not feel anything and another time I got high. I always like to get really high so I take a lot. I have been there where I was not nodding out and I could barely breathe, it is scary.

Also with bupe I have noticed from being abstinent myself and other non regular/naive users that you get way more nauseas with bupe than with other opiates in relationship with the high. If you get a little high you might be as nauseous as if you were pretty high on oxys.

If you can help it don't do it. It will take everything from you I don't care who you are. I barely read your other posts but it doesnt matter. When all my friends started fucking around with pills then dope. One of my friends say if anyone could keep it together and shoot its (JackBurton89) It turned out I ended up being the worst of all of them, it took a while, but the others went into the navy and air force, some to other states and other suboxone maintenance. But you never know.

 

[Cliffy78]

I have the hunter thompson view on drugs.

I do not have archetypal views on drug use.

Use is not abuse.

I am very successful.

I think ROA is more telling than substance type, frequncy, or dose.

I don't personally use opiates or drugs.

@parappa- Wow I didn't know they still built them like you brother you don't just go with the crowd, pretty sweet my friend. I have the same views on this issue. I've known many people that actually do use very occasionally and have no issues.

There's definitly alway a risk but the same can be said about most things in life, driving a car for example. Opiates are rough for a lot if us, lord knows they run my life but I admit that and I'm at peace with it, if it wasn't for these meds I would've took my life long ago. Intractable pain, major depression, panic, s.a.d , anti social personality disorder, body dismorphia, agoraphobia, ADHD, it goes on and on but the opiates help me deal with all of these conditions. While I may be addicted/dependant is really of no consequence to me. Can you imagine living with all these conditions without being on something? Trust me it's unbearable. Drugs do different things for different people so it's hard to paint everyone with the same brush. People are gonna do what they're gonna do so who am I to judge? I don't take meds to nod(I think an 80 would kill me lol) but shit man that must be one helluva chillin feeling. I take a 15 and issues are more bearable, the world not so dark and evil, more inviting even. Hey if wanna do a p5 I can't hate, do your thing. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows opiates are really habit forming. If you wanna risk it well do it up, no lectures from me, you know the risks if your in bl IMHO. Not dissing anyone(kinda got carried away on thread I apologize lol) I just wanna let people see these drugs do serve a purpose. At least for me they do but I'm sure I'm not too different from many here...