• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

Status
Not open for further replies.
2w6gids.png


4-HO-MMT + some other effects like heroin/morphine & 4-AcO-DMT/4-HO-DMT. Was thinking of doing it with the DMT but not sure how that would work. 4 covalents (one coordinate) so N+ ion, plus a negative ion, chlorine or something? Or have a trimethyl on the Nitrogen, keep the diester as an o- and have electrostatic attraction? But yeah, just something fun I made up. Or maybe just a carbonate ion joining both?

***THE FOLLOWING IS HUMOR ONLY AND NOTHING BUT COMEDY HAS BEEN TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT IN MY DESIGN***

Imagine if you will that your compound was to have a tryst with LSD and produce a bastard child... A bastard child that was afflicted with the "LSD-induced genetic damage" that we were told to fear once upon a time... It might look a little bit like this...

jcjv.png


Don't forget, it has a methylenedioxy ring, that means it MUST be chock full of AWESOME!

EDIT: Just for the record Mr. Porter, I'm just using your compound as a jumping-off point for some silly comedy. I'm not trying to make fun of you or your design. In fact, I find it somewhat intriguing, and while I have absolutely no idea if it would be active, I do enjoy looking at it.

EDIT 2: Is it just me or does the MDO ring stacked on the pyrrole ring look like a man with a sharp jaw wearing a pope hat and cocking his head? :P
 
Last edited:
The problem is that it will ultimately be a judge who decides this, not a biochemist (or anyone working in a related field). So who knows...

VERY intriguing observation, btw... :)

ebola

That's always the problem isn't it... The laws are written (necessarily) with language that the person with the gavel in their hand does not comprehend. This leaves them open to having the facts misinterpreted to them for malicious reasons by people who do not have fairness and justice as their goal...

Thanks for noticing and taking the time to reply!:D
 
Is there any location on the structure of MDA-likes eg MDMA, 6-APB, 5-APB that adding steric bulk doesn't significantly affect their monoamergic activity?

Said another way, when they bind to the transporters are they 'enveloped' or do they have an 'exposed' face that can be structurally elaborated on?
 
Don't hold me to this, because its late and I can't be bothered to find sources at the moment, but I seem to recall that there is very little tolerance for structural modification in such compounds. Take for example EDMA, it is essentially inactive. MDEA is active but considered to be less enjoyable than MDA/MDMA. It seems those compounds are the sweet spot, and just about any addition takes away from the experience... I will look for concrete references in the morning to back up my wild allegations. :D
 
Just a quick one tonight. I was messing around and figured out a compound that overlays almost 100% perfectly with Ketamine as far as 3D geometry is concerned. I made the cyclohexane ring a piperidine ring to bypass the arylcyclohexylamine analogue laws that have recently been passed in a few locations. I have not found any references regarding this substitution one way or another, so I would be very interested in knowing what effects this would have on activity. Any opinions?

Here is the model, and comparative 3D structures so people can see how it overlays!
6peq.png


5xh.png


This of course assumes that the conformer of ketamine you have shown is the active conformer - lots of those bonds can rotate!
 
Hey, let me know what you think of this randomness...

RyTq9Oe.png
htbNUvv.png


They are the same molecule in different configurations, btw.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/681398-Activity-of-indole-4-ethanamines
I'm not sure how possible these are, but they could be only stimulants like some analogs of this nature or completely different like cannabinoids with the indole skeleton.

This of course assumes that the conformer of ketamine you have shown is the active conformer - lots of those bonds can rotate!

and with a molecule as weak as ketamine that's not a good sign. The molecule posted could be very different.
 
Its not a structural isomer, the cyclohexane ring is replaced with a piperidine ring and there is an extra bond as well, with the carbon at the end of the amine chain bound to the piperidine ring to form the 5 membered ring of an indoline. There are also three less hydrogen atoms in the novel compound.

Ketamine chemical formula: C13H16ClNO
Novel Compound chemical formula: C12H13ClN2O

It is a different molecule with a unique structure, but shares a similarity with ketamine in an important way. Imagine you could take a molecule of ketamine and a molecule of this new compound, and enlarge them to the point that they were visible with the naked eye. You would see two unique compounds with two unique structures. Imagine as well that you could superimpose one on top of the other in 3D space and see how they would overlap. You would see that these two compounds occupy almost exactly the same position in 3D space. The 3D geometry of a ligand is a very important part of its ability to bind to a particular target. The only glaring difference is the nitrogen in the cyclohexane ring, which is why I had asked if anyone had heard of this being tried before and if so, what the results were.

Sorry if I didn't explain myself clearly in my first post.
I think you did make your self clear, but I still don't understand it :) But never mind that.

As your saying, it "almost occupy exactly the same position in 3D space". I don't think "almost" is good enough. If it was to occupy the same space as ketamine, then it would be ketamine (obviously :D) So yeah, to know if your compound has any chance of being active one would have to look at SAR for arylcyclohexylamines. And I don't know too much about that (yet, I intend to learn more, currently I'm digging the phenethylamines)

I'm grasping this out of nowhere, but it looks so different from ketamine, that if it were active at all, I'm guessing it would be very different in effects.

Hey, let me know what you think of this randomness...

RyTq9Oe.png
htbNUvv.png


They are the same molecule in different configurations, btw.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/681398-Activity-of-indole-4-ethanamines
I think you have to make up you mind if you are making a tryptamine or a phenethylamine.

The 2 methyl groups on the nitrogen at the end of the ethylamine is going to make it inactive as a psychedelic phenethylamine. Remove them and you actualy have 2CB-5-hemifly, with the oxygen in the cyclopentane ring exchanged for a nitrogen and with double bonds. Not sure what that kind of ring is called (aromatic? some one enlighten me :))

I'd say that would actually have a chance of being active (I would guess)
 
This of course assumes that the conformer of ketamine you have shown is the active conformer - lots of those bonds can rotate!

Naturally! That's why it's more of a fun little what-if fuck-around than anything serious. After a long day I like to unwind by playing around like this, so I figured I would post when something interesting came out the other end. Speaking of which, here's a few more following the same formula as the ketamine monstrosity.

euu.PNG
 
I think you did make your self clear, but I still don't understand it :) But never mind that.

As your saying, it "almost occupy exactly the same position in 3D space". I don't think "almost" is good enough. If it was to occupy the same space as ketamine, then it would be ketamine (obviously :D) So yeah, to know if your compound has any chance of being active one would have to look at SAR for arylcyclohexylamines. And I don't know too much about that (yet, I intend to learn more, currently I'm digging the phenethylamines)

I'm grasping this out of nowhere, but it looks so different from ketamine, that if it were active at all, I'm guessing it would be very different in effects.


I think you have to make up you mind if you are making a tryptamine or a phenethylamine.

The 2 methyl groups on the nitrogen at the end of the ethylamine is going to make it inactive as a psychedelic phenethylamine. Remove them and you actualy have 2CB-5-hemifly, with the oxygen in the cyclopentane ring exchanged for a nitrogen and with double bonds. Not sure what that kind of ring is called (aromatic? some one enlighten me :))

I'd say that would actually have a chance of being active (I would guess)

You would be correct and not correct in reference to what you had to say to me. Sometimes almost is good enough, sometimes it isn't. It depends on a lot of things, such as how "tight" the compound you are comparing to binds in the first place, and whether any of the differences that make it "almost" instead of "exactly" create any problems, such as blocking or misaligning with important residues on the receptor. This is my understanding of things anyway, even the best know far from everything on this topic, and I'm by no means anywhere close to that level. Still, you are absolutely correct that there are about 1,000,000 possible things that can go wrong when executing such a procedure, and I've not even made the smallest amount of effort to check for them all. Like I said, it's more of a happy fun what-if exercise than anything else.

By the way, you are correct in your terminology, that particular ring is in fact aromatic, and is called an indole ring (when referring to both the 6- and 5-membered rings as one unit) or a pyrrole ring (when referring to just the 5-membered ring on it's own)
 
You would be correct and not correct in reference to what you had to say to me. Sometimes almost is good enough, sometimes it isn't. It depends on a lot of things, such as how "tight" the compound you are comparing to binds in the first place, and whether any of the differences that make it "almost" instead of "exactly" create any problems, such as blocking or misaligning with important residues on the receptor. This is my understanding of things anyway, even the best know far from everything on this topic, and I'm by no means anywhere close to that level. Still, you are absolutely correct that there are about 1,000,000 possible things that can go wrong when executing such a procedure, and I've not even made the smallest amount of effort to check for them all. Like I said, it's more of a happy fun what-if exercise than anything else.
I get it :D That twist on PCP looks pretty interesting.

By the way, you are correct in your terminology, that particular ring is in fact aromatic, and is called an indole ring (when referring to both the 6- and 5-membered rings as one unit) or a pyrrole ring (when referring to just the 5-membered ring on it's own)
Thanks, I learn something new everyday ;)

Besides from LSD, do we know of any active psychedelics that are both phenethylamine and tryptamine?
 
All the other lysergamides, for a start. Identifying drugs as containing a phenthylamine or tryptamine "backbone" in their structure is a useful way of classifying simpler chemicals, but with something that has a more complex structure, saying "it is both a tryptamine and a phenethylamine" isn't a very useful way of understanding the nature of the drug. Fentanyl is a phenethylamine in a sense, but no pharmacologist or chemist would categorise it as such, because to do so gets you nowhere.
 
Don't forget, it has a methylenedioxy ring, that means it MUST be chock full of AWESOME!

I had to chuckle when I encountered the kavalactone methysticin for that reason.

(I'm actually surprised how little information there is out there on kavalactones, although my guess is that structurally the isolated compounds would be rather weak in whatever action they have.)
 
Just playing around, my lack of any decent sort of SAR knowledge leaves me clueless as to whether or not this would be in any way active:

gkHBHDO.png
 
active where? i think given its similarity to flavourants like e.g. menthyl benzoate, cyclohexyl benzoate etc it would not be psychoactive, although it might have an interesting smell.
 
Shady Dealer: "*PSST* Hey kid, over here! I got what you need!"
Kid: "Oh yeah? What's it do?"
Shady Dealer: "Fuckin' nothing! It smells AWESOME though!"
Kid: "...I'll take an ounce."
 
Last edited:
You joke, but some flavourants can be ghastly expensive...

Of course, it would not make sense if they weren't. The cosmetics industry is all over them, and we all know what kind of prices such products command. I'm not making fun of Jesusgreen's attempt either, the setup was just too good to pass up for that one.
 
Aside from smelling righteous, it's going to be chopped by esterases quicksharp, JG.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top