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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet
I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules
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Bagseed
Bluelighter
I see an Acetal in there, so it's gonna probably hydrolyse into 1-Phenylpropan-1-one (would this be the right nomenclature?) and the respective diol.
sekio
Bluelight Crew
Etoxadrol/dexoxadrol are sterically hindered enough that they don't decompose in water instantly. (as evidenced from human trials... they managed to dose someone with enough of this shit that he was fucked up for 6 days. lucky fucker)
Bagseed
Bluelighter
ok, interesting. how exactly would you determine if an acetal is sterically hindered enough to not readily hydrolyse (in acidic envorinment of course)?
sekio
Bluelight Crew
I think the easiest way is measuring it experimentally. It depends strongly on the exact conditions, the polarity/solubility of the compound, et cetera. There are acetals that aren't very hindered (e.g. MDMA, some acetonides/formaldehyde acetals) but resist hydrolysis anyway, and there are bulky acetals that are easily deprotected (some benzaldehyde acetals).
I think the easiest to hydrolyse are methylene/formaldehyde acetals, even stuff like acetonides are pretty resistant.
I think the easiest to hydrolyse are methylene/formaldehyde acetals, even stuff like acetonides are pretty resistant.
Bagseed
Bluelighter
^ actually now that you mention it, my roommate and I were talking about how the methylenedioxy group should be in some kind of equilibrium with the 3,4-dihydroxy version, but actually isn't (or rather much more in the acetal side).
I just recently finished my first organic lab at university, so I'm highly interested in these things but still not that knowledgeable about it.
I just recently finished my first organic lab at university, so I'm highly interested in these things but still not that knowledgeable about it.
roi
Bluelighter
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pharmakos
Bluelighter
looks to me like it would work, assuming based on how the phenyls are positioned relative to each other in the same configuration as diphenidine.
pharmakos
Bluelighter
right. considering both of the inspiration molecules are active, it would seem odd to me if moving the nitrogen out only works with the one configuration of phenyls and not the other configuration. as always, only way to know for sure is to make it and see.
Hammilton
Bluelighter
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I'm unable to post drawings, so please forgive me, but I'd like to suggest the following compounds:
Replace the piperidine ring of W-18 with 5-nitrobenzimidazole, with the side chains attached the same as in Etonitazine.
1-phenyl-4-PCC (or I guess 1,4-diPCC). This PCP with a 4-phenyl-4-hydroxy substitution on the cyclohexane ring. 4-PCC or just PCC is the name given to the primary metabolite of PCP, which has that 4-hydroxy. IUPAC, if I remember my conventions correctly would be 1,4-diphenyl-4-(1-piperidinyl)cyclohexanol. I'd also be interested in that 1-phenyl being replaced with a benzyl and phenethyl. I imagine that the latter will be quite potent as its pretty close to BDPC, or Bromadol, but the desire is for potency between 1 and 3x morphine. Something strong enough to make for plenty of doses per gram, but also weak enough that half a milligram isn't the difference between fun and funeral.
Looking at etonitazine more, I wonder if some sort of cannabinoid-opioid combination molecule could be acheived. The chains aren't optimally placed for cannabinoid activity, but I bet something could be worked out.
Replace the piperidine ring of W-18 with 5-nitrobenzimidazole, with the side chains attached the same as in Etonitazine.
1-phenyl-4-PCC (or I guess 1,4-diPCC). This PCP with a 4-phenyl-4-hydroxy substitution on the cyclohexane ring. 4-PCC or just PCC is the name given to the primary metabolite of PCP, which has that 4-hydroxy. IUPAC, if I remember my conventions correctly would be 1,4-diphenyl-4-(1-piperidinyl)cyclohexanol. I'd also be interested in that 1-phenyl being replaced with a benzyl and phenethyl. I imagine that the latter will be quite potent as its pretty close to BDPC, or Bromadol, but the desire is for potency between 1 and 3x morphine. Something strong enough to make for plenty of doses per gram, but also weak enough that half a milligram isn't the difference between fun and funeral.
Looking at etonitazine more, I wonder if some sort of cannabinoid-opioid combination molecule could be acheived. The chains aren't optimally placed for cannabinoid activity, but I bet something could be worked out.
blueberries
Bluelighter
So something like this for the PCP analogue:
This one looks pretty nice in all honesty, an opioid without the potency of Bromadol. You could always have a 2-oxo group instead of the hydroxy. I feel it'd be similar but with a touch of NMDA antagonism too. It could be at risk of becoming a potent PCP analogue though, so better stick with the hydroxy for pure opioid content.
Also, for a time I was very interested in the Etonitazene analogues but tried to wane them more to the Tryptamine field for a gain on potency and possibly some opioid effects and came up with these:
I would have hoped they'd be potent tryptamines (former) or a mix of hallucinogenic and opioid content (latter) but they never seem to come out how you want them to in reality. I'd expect them to either be inactive or compounds reminiscent of pyr-T or 5-MeO-aMT (so high body-load, low dose, "ugly" hallucinogens).
This one looks pretty nice in all honesty, an opioid without the potency of Bromadol. You could always have a 2-oxo group instead of the hydroxy. I feel it'd be similar but with a touch of NMDA antagonism too. It could be at risk of becoming a potent PCP analogue though, so better stick with the hydroxy for pure opioid content.
Also, for a time I was very interested in the Etonitazene analogues but tried to wane them more to the Tryptamine field for a gain on potency and possibly some opioid effects and came up with these:
I would have hoped they'd be potent tryptamines (former) or a mix of hallucinogenic and opioid content (latter) but they never seem to come out how you want them to in reality. I'd expect them to either be inactive or compounds reminiscent of pyr-T or 5-MeO-aMT (so high body-load, low dose, "ugly" hallucinogens).
Hammilton
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I don't think you'll get 5HT2A affinity with those structures, I'm afraid it won't tolerate that bulky 2-(4-ethoxybenzyl) substitution, not with any affinity, for sure.
I would think the only real chance of producing an active compound with similar ED50's (don't want cannabinoid activity with a 5mg/kg ED50 and opioid activity with a 50mcg/kg ED50) for two receptors is to target MOR and CB1/2.
Yes that compound you drew is 1,4-diPCC. That hydroxy is important, probably necessary for activity, or an ester. I don't think it'll have NMDA antagonist activity. 2-oxo is a bad idea, the goal is an opioid.
I would think the only real chance of producing an active compound with similar ED50's (don't want cannabinoid activity with a 5mg/kg ED50 and opioid activity with a 50mcg/kg ED50) for two receptors is to target MOR and CB1/2.
Yes that compound you drew is 1,4-diPCC. That hydroxy is important, probably necessary for activity, or an ester. I don't think it'll have NMDA antagonist activity. 2-oxo is a bad idea, the goal is an opioid.
Are there reasons why there haven't been studied (as far as I can tell)? I don't know how to name them.
My experience with DALT is that it has produces certain effects of DPT with almost identical character (weird energy, body vibrations, time dilation) while completely removing others (visuals, mindfuck). So maybe #1 would emphasize other properties of DPT?
DALT
DPT
#1
#2
My experience with DALT is that it has produces certain effects of DPT with almost identical character (weird energy, body vibrations, time dilation) while completely removing others (visuals, mindfuck). So maybe #1 would emphasize other properties of DPT?
DALT
#1
blueberries
Bluelighter
I think because of the above reason. They're too bulky to be hallucinogens and too impotent to be the opioid that Etonitazine is. They're a strange intermediate between the two that has no use in modern science. It's a shame because the basic idea looks lovely.
Also that #1 would be (very) interesting but #2, as I've asked before, would be toxic I think. Vinyl metabolites do something nasty but I'd need someone else to tell me what!
A Methynyl though (triple bond) would be much better and I think a winner in all honesty but we've yet to see. I'd go for MYT personally.
Also that #1 would be (very) interesting but #2, as I've asked before, would be toxic I think. Vinyl metabolites do something nasty but I'd need someone else to tell me what!
A Methynyl though (triple bond) would be much better and I think a winner in all honesty but we've yet to see. I'd go for MYT personally.
Bagseed
Bluelighter
would you mean an ethynyl group? R-N-(C=CH)2 ?
Dresden
Bluelighter
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How about N-ethynyl-amphetamine? Nice "legal" ethylamphetamine substitute perhaps or just another unstable compound in aqueous media?
Also, taking a cue from the hypnotic zolpidem, 2-(4-methylphenyl)-DMT, 2-(4-methylphenyl)-4-hydroxy-DMT, indolic 2-(4-methylphenyl)-LSD, and 2-(4-methylphenyl)-5-MeO-DMT.
Also, taking a cue from the hypnotic zolpidem, 2-(4-methylphenyl)-DMT, 2-(4-methylphenyl)-4-hydroxy-DMT, indolic 2-(4-methylphenyl)-LSD, and 2-(4-methylphenyl)-5-MeO-DMT.
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