I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

[pharmakos]

he also made the 4-methyl version of that, as well as the 2-thio-4-methyl/ethyl versions.... the 5-thio-4-ethyl one looks like the most interesting of the four, so good call there.

 

[black53]

And now I wonder how the fly versions of these would be

2c-e-thio-fly for example

or an unrelated tryptamine (could have already been posted:

or slight variation of lsz:

or

6-tfm-6-nor-lsd (tfm lad?):

 

[SeenSoFar]

And now I wonder how the fly versions of these would be

2c-e-thio-fly for example

or an unrelated tryptamine (could have already been posted:

or slight variation of lsz:

or

6-tfm-6-nor-lsd (tfm lad?):

Cool! Keep up the good work! I would bet my stash that the first two would be incredibly interesting to sample!

As for the second two, I think the lysergic acid 2,3-dimethylaziridide would probably not be stable, if you even managed to successfully synthesise it at all. I seem to recall that David E. Nichols tried to synthesise it but the ring kept opening, which is what prompted him to look at the 2,4-dimethylazetidide homologue instead, but don't hold me to that, I could be wrong. I'll bet that if you could synthesise it successfully and keep it together long enough to bioassay it, it would be awesome, but getting there is the real problem.

As for the 7-trifluoromethyl homologue, messing with the 7-position is tricky. I'm not aware of anything other than alkyl and alkenyl groups being substituted there successfully. Furthermore, I've never heard of an n-trifluoroalkyl substituted tryptamine before either, so this is totally unknown territory. I have no idea what effects such a substituent would have on activity, pharmacokinetics, or toxicity. I could imagine that such a thing might make n-dealkylation more difficult, but that's as much speculation as I'm comfortable with... Anyone else have any comments?

 

[DL-ark]

Got another one - 1,N,N methylenedioxy diethyl ethylamide barbituric acid

Active? I think this would be adequatley lipophilic, although it is a bit large and I would be worried about it breaking down in stomach.

EDIT:

Just made a couple more - these are some GABA/Tapentadol analogues - including one that is supposed to be a mix of the two.

 

[black53]

@ SeenSoFar

I agree, the first two should work.

Your right about the third, it's the lsd analoge Nichols never managed to make. But chemistry is advancing every year, who knows what will happen in 50 years. If I wrote a post in 2010 that LSZ and AL-LAD would soon become available, most ppl would think I'm lying. It should work if it is made.

The fourth one I have no idea. Depends on what properties of the methyl are important.

How about this:

al-lad, lsz, ald-52 in one.. should be active but hard to make imo

the indole replaced by a benzofuran, works for tryptamines.... would also probably be a bitch to make

 

[Jabberwocky]

In the end, Eddie Morra creates NZT-49 (nootropic), leaving NZT-48 (fake nootropic) obsolete. NZT-49 permanently boosts cognition to a four digit IQ and is non-toxic. Continual use may even lead to a 5 digit IQ. Such a hightend intelligence would effectively lead to the cure for certain cancers and even the creation of new elements. Such elements would be in the "island of sability" and allow the person to become nearly indestructable.
The alternate ending is scarier. There's no NZT-49 in the alternate ending, only NZT-48. NZT-48 only temporarily boosts cognition to a four digit IQ. The toxicity is speculated to come from the thallanyl (thallium based) molecule. Such an error leads to fatal toxicity and permanent brain and body damage. Thallium also causes extreme sickness and death. Death! Thallium is HIGHLY toxic!

Here's NZT-48, or thallanylzirconio-methyl-tetrahydro-triazatriphenylene.

Here's NZT-49, or phosphanylzirconio-methyl-tetrahydro-triazatriphenylene.

Here's the ending of Limitless where he makes NZT-49 in the end.



Here's the ending of Limitless where he's stuck on NZT-48 and didn't create NZT-49.



Hypranootropics(super nootropics)
Nootropics(permanent cognitive enhancement)
Quasinootropics(temporary cognitive increase, little or no brain damage)
Pseudonootropics(fake nootropics. The effect is temporary and there's extensive damage, toxicity, and a host of side effects including high addiction potential, blackouts and brain damage)

I wonder if near indestructability and NZT-49 would ever become real possibilities. That would be so cool! :D %)

fun post, thnx. Could you writeup "fluid karma", or "substance D' nxt?
//am not even joking lol, your post made me watch/enjoy limitless which i hadn't seen

[edit: 'fluid karma' is from Southland Tales, 'substance D' is from A Scanner Darkly; both are epic in their own right, but imagine most in this sub have seen these

 

[Jesusgreen]

Given that Benzodiazepines, Apigenin and the Qualones are all somewhat structurally similar and all GABAergic drugs I wonder if carrying over structural modifications that work for say the Qualones to Benzodiazepines or vice versa would result in some interesting changes in effects.

Like: 1-methyl-5-(2-methylphenyl)-2,3-dihydro-1H-1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one "Methazepam" (?)

Or: 7-chloro-2-methyl-3-phenyl-3,4-dihydroquinazolin-4-one "Clodesmethaqualone" (?)

Or the one I'd be most skeptical about (Apigenin based) but felt like drawing anyway:
3-methyl-2-(2-methylphenyl)-4H-chromen-4-one "Methachromone"

Just thoughts. Pretty certain the last one would be a silly idea but maybe a little tweaking could make something active.

 

[blueberries]

Some ketamine analogues that I've thought up. I realised that balance (between the amine and the 2 position) in the molecule was essential for holes to occur as such (2-MeO-Ket and N-ethyl-Ket had no holes whatsoever and they were unbalanced as hell (2-MeO-Ket after the methyl is cleaved, so you'd need a halogen there to secure it), though still as potent) so each is balanced by atomic numbers (I have a feeling that the mass would be different though), the only problem is some may be too bulky to succeed. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

EDIT: After calculating their atomic masses, I've found great differences between them, so it's back to the drawing board. However, do you think this would matter? Also the significance of the double bonded oxygen, would this count into the effects profile for holes to occur or is it just there for extra opioid content?

In fact, is there a solid reasoning why and how holes occur on some substances but not others? I'm very interested in this subject as after trying the Ketamine analogues (and ACHs in general), it seems the hole is a rare occurrence. MXE has a hole but it's Methoxy bond is at the 3 position (9/15 after cleavage, N-25/44), possibly making it more balanced than at 2, even though it lacks the atomic mass balance, whereas 3-Br-PCP holds absolutely no activity whatsoever (35/80 at 3, 37/74 at N). This should be an excellent candidate for activity and a hole, however nothing, indicating the need for a balanced compound at 3 is much less than at 2.

This tells me that at the 3 position roughly a third of the overall balanced molecule is needed for a hole to occur, making it more potent but much longer in duration and without the satisfactory hole that Ketamine provides.

Anyway, please let me know if what I am saying is correct or not, I'm still learning!

 

[black53]

@: Jesusgreen:
Methazepam may well have been tested by some pharm company back when benzos were the next big thing
I mean all the current rc benzos are from old pharm research.

@: blueberries:
Lots of ketamine/pcp/pce/.. related chemicals were tested by UK rc vendors before all of them were banned. I know one offered some very unusual ones for it's advanced customers.


Anyway, what are the important properties of the two methyl groups on the nitrogen in DMT? -CF3 has some similarity to -CH3, so would n,n-ditrifluoromethyltryptamine work?

 

[blueberries]

@black53

Which ones exactly are we talking? Ketamine, 2-MeO-K, NEK, Tiletamine, MXE, 3-MeO-PCP and 4-MeO-PCP, I have tried and only found holes on MXE and Ketamine (and a minor hole on 3-MeO-PCP, containing stark ego-loss with not much else).

As I re-edited, I explained the importance of balance on the N side so making N, N-ditrifluoromethyl-des-N,methyl-ketamine would be a horrific failure if what I am saying is correct, as the atomic number/mass at N would be 73/152, while the 2-position would remain at 17/35. So an increase of 118 in atomic mass. However trifluoromethyls when added to PEA's usually increase potency by a fair amount but the same is true of increasing Halogens at 4 (i.e: 2C-C = 20-40mg, 2C-B = 15-25mg, 2C-I = 10-25mg etc, etc.) which is not the case with Arylcyclohexylamines.

 

[black53]

The ones I know of are:
3-meo-PCP
3-meo-PCE
3-meo-PCPr
3-meo-PCPy

 

[blueberries]

Huh, I didn't realise these were available at some point. Goddamn, I'd have loved to have tried them.

 

[blueberries]

I'd love to know more about the 2-ketone-2C-B analogue. I had a theory over whether double bonded oxygens would be batter or worse than their methoxy counterparts in 2C's. I'm not sure how that oxygen would work at 3 as every PEA I know has a complete phenyl ring. Does anyone else have speculation as to whether this would work or not? Also the methoxy bond would work better at 6 than at 5, nevertheless you've given me some great ideas, so thanks!

The 6-APB analogue scares me a little though, a double nitrogen? Would this give it opioid content as an analogue of Tapentadol + serotonergic amplification via the MDA pathway? To me it seems like the joining of the two wouldn't work out as expected and would turn into some form of anti-depressant/MAOI but I don't know nearly enough to put my full weight behind this theory. If someone does please, please chime in as I love these innovative compounds!

Here's 5-iodo-MDEA, or 5-iodo-3,4-methylenedioxyethylamphetamine.

I'm interested in this, although I faintly remember that halogenated subbed MDA analogues (save for fluorine) are inactive as halogens would make it too heavy for activity. Also working with the 5 position usually makes quite high dosage compounds like MMDA and 5-Methyl-MDA so utilising the 2 position would be a much better idea IMO.

 

[DL-ark]

^ Thanks, didnt even realize the implications on the ketone being there, otherwise I would have removed the stupid oxygen. I was just playing around with GABA. Anyway, the apb analogue is going to be difficult to make have properties of an opioid along with keeping the amphetamine. Thinking about it now I realize there is a low likely hood of those nitrogens contributing to activity without being amino groups. Are there any instances of such a compound? I definitely see the potential for some sort of maoi. I wonder if it would then keep its opioid affinity. Id imagine this chemical woul either be wildly nonselective or very selective for MAO or SERT. Does anyone hsve a QSAR for these?

 

[sekio]

You can't in general dearomatize phenyl rings and expect the compounds to be the same pharmacologically.

I'd love to know more about the 2-ketone-2C-B analogue. I had a theory over whether double bonded oxygens would be batter or worse than their methoxy counterparts in 2C's. I'm not sure how that oxygen would work at 3 as every PEA I know has a complete phenyl ring. Does anyone else have speculation as to whether this would work or not? Also the methoxy bond would work better at 6 than at 5, nevertheless you've given me some great ideas, so thanks!

It's a cis-diene so it'll Diels-Alder on you. Water could also open the lactone, and the bromine and methoxy at the bottom could likely also get hydrolysed. It's also very unlikely to behave like a methoxybenzene.

Related compounds with 2-pyrone groups are stuff like the kavalactones.

The 6-APB analogue scares me a little though, a double nitrogen? Would this give it opioid content as an analogue of Tapentadol + serotonergic amplification via the MDA pathway?

Hydrazides are generally a little too reactive for people to use them as drugs. The only ones I know of are things like irreversible enzyme inhibitors... MAOIs.

 

[DL-ark]

^ the oxygenated phenyl was just playing around with the structure of GABA. How would the 2 ketone effect its activity compared to the methoxy? That is without that silly oxygen in the 3 position.

 

[sekio]

It would tautomerize to a phenol.

 

[DL-ark]

^ interesting, thanks for the info, sekio.

I thought that the keto isomer is usually the more stable one, guess I was wrong.

50th post! does this mean I am finally a bluelighter?

 

[DL-ark]

Ok, updated models of the 2 chemicals blueberry commented on. I am curious as to the activity of this diethyl cathinone I have made here. In addition I did the best I could in keeping the ketone, as sekio said it would tautomerize, so I hooked it on to an extra carbon. Although I think I should have gone with an aldehyde group.

 

[SkyblueMolly]

More molecules!
Here's 2C-Zr-I5

Here's PP-028, Piperonyl Piperidine, or Piperonylic Piperidine. PP-028 is a drug based on CX-546.

Here's 3-MTA or 3-MethylThioAmphetamine. It's like a stronger version of 3-Methoxyamphetamine.

Here's 2C-Zr.

Here's 2C-Y.