• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

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^ That makes sense. I am not sure what I was thinking lol.

Would these be a bit better?
NgVv8ho.png

6Yr6V7B.png


I suspect the 2nd one would have the same issue (formaldehyde and amine), but I admit metabolism is not a strong suit of mine.
 
Those still look too polar and small-molecule-y to me... the second has a Texas carbon, you can't have a lactone with an unsaturated c=c bond.

lactones (lactams) will generally open up to the alcohol+the acid, (like gbl -> ghb) in vivo, the reason for salvinorin A's rapid metabolism etc
 
sekio said:
remember that propylhexidrine (hexahydro-dextro-methamphetamine) is about 1/100 - 1/1000 as potent as the drug it is 'derived' from !

Given anecdotes of recreational use, I think you're off by at least an order of magnitude (125-250 mg is a typical dose)...but it's not like anyone's run the relevant binding affinity or ec50 screenings.

ebola
 
Also, to my knowledge, nobody but rats and monkeys have been trialed on wierd ass D1 full agonists. I can only imagine using such a drug would have an effect somewhat similar to that of a rampaging bull in a china shop on the psychology of most people. A drug with no primary effects - not a stimulant nor a depressant nor a hallucinogen, that just induces reward? Seems like something out of a bad remake of Limitless...

The first molecule was being used to showcase its own uniqueness, antidepressant with anorectic properties producing wakefullness.... but also producing sedation? Just seems a bit crazy to me and I was giving that to dingophone to chew on, these things can be a little crazy.

The last 2 I listed did have primary effects, to quote the wiki article(s):

A-77636 is a synthetic drug which acts as a selective D1 receptor full agonist.[2] It has nootropic, anorectic, rewarding and antiparkinsonian effects in animal studies,[3][4][5][6][7] but its high potency and long duration of action causes D1 receptor downregulation and tachyphylaxis,[8][9][10] and unlike other D1 full agonists such as SKF-82,958, it does not produce place preference in animals.[11] A-77636 partially substituted for cocaine in animal studies, and has been suggested for use as a possible substitute drug in treating addiction,[12] but it is better known for its use in studying the role of D1 receptors in the brainstimulant effects

SKF-82,958 is a synthetic compound of the benzazepine class that acts as a D1/D5 receptor full agonist.[1][2] SKF-82,958 and similar D1-like-selective full agonists like SKF-81,297 and 6-Br-APB produce characteristic anorectic effects, hyperactivity and self-administration in animals, with a similar but not identical profile to that of dopaminergic stimulants such as amphetamine.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]

Not to say they shouldn't stay with the monkeys and rats but they do seem to be interesting compounds.
 
In LSD, there's the phenethylamine structure mixed with tryptamine, so we basically get AMT with a methyl on the 4-position joined to the alpha methyl, creating a cyclohexane. Would this have any activity on it's own, do you think?
How about the same thing again, but with an Oxygen bridging from the alpha to the 4-position?
Or with N,N-DiMethyl?

I just tried turning AMT into a fraction of LSD, so I imagine they've been attempted before but couldn't find anything.
I'll try and upload images in a tic.
 
Compounds like this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RU-28306
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_R_1531

They are known and as far as I can tell non-psychedelic. But they are certainly centrally active *somehow*. I don't think they have been trialed in human usage.

The "let's staple the chain of a tryptamine onto itself to make a pseudo-ergoloid" idea has been kicked around for quite a long time. Never seen it pan out.
 
^^ i've posted that one (with an added double bond to make it planar like lsd) two pages back. based on the old and not very specific receptor binding data for the one you have drawn, it could very well be active. i'm damn sure it is, but it has apparently never been tried in man.


^ haha, almost certainly inactive. i haven't looked closely at a 5-HT2A receptor model lately, but i've looked at the 2B model recently and have come to the highly speculative conclusion that the nitrogen in tryptamines and the nitrogen in phenethylamines bind at totally different places (that they require different substitution patterns also hints at this. most phens are most active as primary amines, but most tryptamines are inactive if not substituted [best activity usual with one methyl]). the pyrolle part of the indole rather seems (to me) to take the place of the 3 and 4 positions on the phenethylamine. my own stupid attempt to bring them all together in the same molecule is again two pages back ;)
 
The second one is a twist on AMT, something like "AMT-FLY"... I Don't know if it would do much, but it's visually interesting.
 
l4hPN.png

Playing around with some aminorexy/phenmetraziney things. Obviously the lactone won't be stable, and the last one is only there because it's a time-honoured ADD tradition that no chemwank reaches climax before you reach the methylendioxy motif, but I still think it's an interesting area, you could play around with regioisomers and saturation and whatnot until the cows come home, and these things wouldn't be covered by UK catch-all clauses.

EDIT: Looking at one of these things makes me wonder, has a-fluoroPEA ever been made?
 
Also a non-beta-keto analog of Pentedrone -- my understanding is that the chain length was responsible for its relatively high potency.
 
My speculation is that with the polar B-keto group the long, lipophilic chain increases BBB penetration but with the amphetamines which already pass the BBB well it just hurts receptor affinity.
 
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