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I Like to Draw Pictures of Random Molecules

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sekio said:
well, excuse me if your claim goes against all known SAR of amphetamines. i think claiming that a simple organic compound known probably since the 1800s is a stimulant should be backed up with at least one piece of literature data?

do you realize that this means clandestine amphetamine manufacturers need not bother with the whole process of making phenylacetone and can just go PAA-->the amide in one step? do you really thunk nobody's tried that?? (hint: DEA has found people making phenylacetamide before, and it wasn't exactly mentioned as an active stimuylant, more like a fuckup!)

and you don't exactly have a history of posting any sort of analytical data to back up your claims, either? do you even know you have phenylacetamide? can you provide any sort of data to back up your claim? MS, NMR, melt point, fucking TLC or something? no?

how about you go back to shilling on drugs forum, clearly you don't have the ability to swim with the big fish here. big claims require big evidence and i see nothing but you trolloping around saying "oh this compound XYZ is a novel stimulant!!!!!!!!" - never providing anything but anecdotes.
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I would bet all my 'chips' on Sekio because I know he is right about these issues.
Seriously he knows this very well.
 
Why doesn't everyone hold off on picking sides based on reputation or smarts, until we actually see some data on this - I think that is something we can all agree on?

Yes I totally agree the SAR doesn't make any sense, the ketone is not an alpha methyl bioisostere afaik hehe... and it would be so strange if the family of compounds was overlooked. But there may be something to the properties of metabolites.

It is right to ask for data here and right now it is not presentable, but just don't overestimate what you think you can know and mistake it for actual proof either. Just be patient.
 
roi said:
SQB7pr8.png


JqnqrdD.png
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wouldn't these probably metabolize into the respective carboxylic acids?
 
thenightwatch said:
....what is it?

looks neat. also looks smelly. and maybe toxic.
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I have no Idea what it could be, just randomly drawn molecules. metabolites (if the compound could be stabily produced) could be iodomethanethioic O-acid and chloromethanethioic O-acid, but I couldn´t find any data about them.
 
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/699704-a-thank-you-perk-for-donators-account-name-change

alasdairm said:
following the launch of the donations portal (see: Introducing Bluelight's Donations Portal!), we're pleased to announce that those donating $25 or more to bluelight now receive a one-time account name change as a thank you.

if you would like to take advantage of this perk, simply forward the receipt email you receive from maps to [email protected], along with the new name you are requesting. the abandoned accounts policy (see: change to the terms of the blua: abandoned accounts) will apply.

alasdair
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you might even get a free name change if you asked, though. i was always amazed the staff never made you change your name.
 
^^ Actually, I'd love to change my name, because I'm sick and tired of it. Don't know what I was thinking when I chose it, but it does have its good sides, like people remember it :)

Thing is, Fagott is actually german for bassoon, but people don't get that. It's completely nonsensical, I'm not german, I'm not gay and I don't play the bassoon. So wtf was I thinking. lol.......might donate that 25 bucks for a name change :D

Sorry to say it, but I actually liked your own name better, Nightwatch, but I guess it's often like that.
 
eh, i was tired of thenightwatch. everyone thought it had to do with game of thrones, or some vampire book/movie series. i'm much more emotionally attached to the word pharmakos

here's what pharmakos means. nsfw for length and offtopic. note that the word originally had nothing to do with drugs.

NSFW:
Pharmākos, in Greek religion, a human scapegoat used in certain state rituals. In Athens, for example, a man and a woman who were considered ugly were selected as scapegoats each year. At the festival of the Thargelia in May or June, they were feasted, led round the town, beaten with green twigs, and driven out or killed with stones. The practice in Colophon, on the coast of Asia Minor (the part of modern Turkey that lies in Asia) was described by the 6th-century-bc poet Hipponax (fragments 5–11). An especially ugly man was honoured by the community with a feast of figs, barley soup, and cheese. Then he was whipped with fig branches, with care that he was hit seven times on his phallus, before being driven out of town. (Medieval sources said that the Colophonian pharmākos was burned and his ashes scattered in the sea.) The custom was meant to rid the place annually of ill luck.

The 5th-century Athenian practice of ostracism has been described as a rationalized and democratic form of the custom. The biblical practice of driving the scapegoat from the community, described in Leviticus 16, gave a name to this widespread custom, which was said by the French intellectual René Girard to explain the basis of all human societies.

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A pharmakós (Greek: φαρμακός, plural pharmakoi) in Ancient Greek religion was the ritualistic sacrifice or exile of a human scapegoat or victim.

A slave, a cripple or a criminal was chosen and expelled from the community at times of disaster (famine, invasion or plague) or at times of calendrical crisis. It was believed that this would bring about purification. On the first day of the Thargelia, a festival of Apollo at Athens, two men, the Pharmakoi, were led out as if to be sacrificed as an expiation.

Some scholia state that pharmakoi were actually sacrificed (thrown from a cliff or burned), but many modern scholars reject this, arguing that the earliest source for the pharmakos (the iambic satirist Hipponax) shows the pharmakoi being beaten and stoned, but not executed. A more plausible explanation would be that sometimes they were executed and sometimes not, depending on the attitude of the victim. For instance, a deliberate unrepentant murderer would most likely be put to death.[citation needed]

In Aesop in Delphi (1961), Anton Wiechers discussed the parallels between the legendary biography of Aesop (in which he is unjustly tried and executed by the Delphians) and the pharmakos ritual. For example, Aesop is grotesquely deformed, as was the pharmakoi in some traditions; and Aesop was thrown from a cliff, as was the pharmakoi in some traditions.

Gregory Nagy, in Best of the Achaeans (1979), compared Aesop’s pharmakos death to the “worst” of the Achaeans in the Iliad, Thersites. More recently, both Daniel Ogden, The Crooked Kings of Ancient Greece (1997) and Todd Compton, Victim of the Muses: Poet as Scapegoat, Warrior and Hero (2006) examine poet pharmakoi. Compton surveys important poets who were exiled, executed or suffered unjust trials, either in history, legend or Greek or Indo-European myth.

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[1] The chain, pharmakeia-pharmakon-pharmakeus, appears several times in Plato's texts. A word not directly or literally used by Plato is pharmakos, which means 'scapegoat'. According to Derrida, that it is not used by Plato does not indicate that the word is necessarily absent. Certain forces of association unite the words that are 'actually present' in a text with all the other words in the lexical system, whether or not they appear as words in such discourse. The textual chain is not simply 'internal' to Plato's lexicon. One can say that all the 'pharmaceutical' words do actually make themselves present in the text. 'It is in the back room, in the shadows of the pharmacy, prior to the oppositions between conscious and unconscious, freedom and constraint, voluntary and involuntary, speech and language, that these textual 'operations' occur' (Dissemination, p.129). Derrida places the opposites, presence-absence and inside-outside, under great pressure. If the word pharmakos that Plato does not use still resonates within the text, then there can be no matter of a text being closed upon itself. What do 'absent' and 'present' mean when the outside is always already part of the inside, at work on the inside?

[2] In ancient Athens, the character and the ritual of the pharmakos had the task of expelling and shutting out the evil (out of the body and out of the city). The Athenians maintained several outcasts at the public expense. When plague, famine, drought or other calamities befell the city, they sacrificed some of the outcasts as a purification and a remedy. The pharmakos, the scapegoat, was led to the outside of the city and killed in order to purify the city's interior. The evil that had affected the inside of the city from the outside, was thus returned to the outside in order to protect the inside. But the representative of the outside (the pharmakos) was nonetheless kept in the very heart of the inside, the city. In order to be led out of the city, the scapegoat must have already been within the city. 'The ceremony of the pharmakos is thus played out on the boundary line between the inside and the outside, which it has as its function ceaselessly to trace and retrace' (Dissemination, p.133). At the same time, the pharmakos is on the borderl between sacred and cursed, '... beneficial insofar as he cures - and for that, venerated and cared for - harmful insofar as he incarnates the powers of evil - and for that, feared and treated with caution' (Dissemination, p.133). He is the benefactor who heals and he is the criminal who incarnates the powers of evil. The pharmakos is like a medicine in that he 'cures' the impurity of the city, but he is, at the same time, a poison, an evil. Pharmakos. Pharmakon. Undecidables. Both words carry within themselves more than one meaning. Conflicting meanings.

[3] Pharmakos does not only mean scapegoat. It is also synonymous for pharmakeus, or wizard, magician, poisoner. In Plato's dialogues, Socrates is often portrayed as a pharmakeus. Socrates is considered as one who knows how to perform magic with words. His words act as a pharmakon (as a remedy, or as a poison?) and permeate the soul of the listener. In Phaedrus, he fiercely objects to the ill effects of writing. He compares writing to a pharmakon, a drug, a poison: writing repeats without knowing. Socrates suggests a different pharmakon, a medicine: dialectics, the philosophical dialogue. This, he claims, can lead one to true knowledge, the truth of the eidos, that which is identical to itself, always the same as itself, invariable. This is the message of Socrates to the city of Athens. He acts as a magician (pharmakos) - Socrates himself speaks about a divine or supernatural voice that comes to him - and his most famous medicine (pharmakon) is speech, dialectics and dialogue that will lead to knowledge and truth.

But Socrates also becomes Athen's most famous 'other' pharmakos, the scapegoat. He becomes a stranger, even an enemy who does not speak the proper language of the other citizens. He is an other; not the absolute other, the barbarian, but the other (the outside) who is very near, who is already on the inside. According to several prominent Athenians, he was of bad moral and political influence. His constant criticism undermined the faith in democracy of many Athenians. In 399 BC, Socrates was charged with introducing new gods and corrupting the young and sentenced to death. Having accused him as a force of evil, Athens killed him to keep itself intact. Athens kills the pharmakos (both the magician and the scapegoat).
 
Wow, that's really interesting :) When I first read Pharmakos, I did think it had something to do with drugs.....But I get it now. It's were the meaning behind the english word pharmacy comes from. The scapegoat that is "sacrificed" to bring the evil out of town (or the body). Very cool.

I totally get why you'd be tired of the nightwatch, what with Game of Thrones and all. I guess it's just that you're still thenightwatch to the rest of us, untill we get used to the new name, I guess :)

I read Socrates defense speech from his trial, in school once. It's really hilarious. In the end he refuses to name a proper punishment for himself (after athenian custom), it could have been a fine or a pilgimage to a holy site or something like that. Because he refuses, which would have been the same as admitting he was guilty, he ands up getting the death penalty.
And still he just mocks all of the prosecutors as well as the whole town of Athens, exposing their hypocrisy.

I guess all this is completely off topic, but does it matter? I see the whole "I like to draw pictures of random molecules" thread as a kind of social thread anyway :)
 
Would 6-AcO-6-nor-Ald-52 be active? Or would the AcO-group be removed completely leaving the N unsubstituted?
 
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You can have N-Ac or O-Ac, but not N-O-Ac.

N-Ac may be slightly active but is still less desirable than N-Me in this case because the latter better matches up with the ergoline DMT pharmacophore.
 
Better make it 6-propionyl, since that is more slowly hydrolysed (which may be what makes 1P-LSD interesting), not sure if N-methyl is actually ideal, ETH-LAD is more potent than LSD but the ideal point is probably in between methyl and ethyl, not ethyl and propyl. Plus Prop being an acyl also adds oxygen as bulk. :)

Forgetting about potency for a second, choosing the right acyl group (acetyl, propionyl, butyryl etc) could mean choosing a shorter acting LSD analogue. It is probably disappointing in reality, but there may be interest for business men's lunch trips? ;)
 
This one's a longshot. It's also a shout out to testosterone.

2-methylamino-1-(1-oxo-cyclohex-2-ene-4-yl)-propane.HCl

See also 3,4-di-oxo-propylhexedrine. This one avoids being aromatized to p-OH-methamphetamine.
 
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b-Oxymethylamine-methamphetamine or 4-MAR with it's ring broken. Would the N-Methyl work better as an a-Methyl to the beta amine or should it stay where it is?

5Z1Rltg.png
 
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N and O don't exist with only one C spacer betwixt them. 4-MAR does obviously but it's in a ring and with a double bond.
 
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