I just completely "OVERAMPED" on crystal?-Help

[Piscesgirl81]

I don't care how "well-known" or respected someone is, it does not make their claim automatically true.

Even your example shows that heart attacks and strokes happen "pave the wave to future heart disease". Even the statement "these extreme results are not common" is mis-leading, because not common means in reality, the only people who can physically even get a heart attack or stroke from short term use are those who have underlying issues that make their arteries clogged, shrunk, already a diseased heart, etc, not someone in healthy levels. To give an example to compare it to, a brand new vehicle that is properly inspected doesn't just randomly break down after a short drive, no, if it does, the vehicle's engine had problems that were not detected.

As for the long term effects of crystal meth use? I've personally known users who are heavy users for over a decade who still have normal levels of heart health and blood pressure, which leads me to believe that there is no correlation. It is important to remember that even though it does restrict the arteries, they do in fact, begin dilate after short term use, it isn't a process where every time they become more and more constricted. There are even medications which can cause the arteries to dilate, which could be used if it were a serious problem.

Something as a simple as aspirin virtually negates the problem of blood clots spontaneously forming in short term use, and usually crystal meth users who develop chest pain, rapid heart beats, and other such sensations are those who actually are experiencing panic attacks or anxiety, and associating these sensations to the drug only leads to this problem worsening with each use, leading to hysterical reactions and ER visits for no reason.

As for the heart getting "damaged" from not enough oxygen, seriously? Then all runners and sprinters should drop dead of heart attacks after short term running, long term ones would be even worse than long term meth users. What about panic attacks or anxiety being damaging to the heart?

How about the military that combines regular amphetamine use AND intensive cardiovascular exercising with the resistance training of carrying heavy gear, in situations of high temperature?

Puts it into a new light, I think.

Exactly!

 

[F1n1shed]

Psychedelic Wizard and his monkey logic. I think this guy should be banned, he usually blurts out false information out of anger and never agrees with evidence and research.

He is like the people who say MDMA isn't neurotoxic, i am still doing good in school you see! If you space it you will not run into damage.

Listen man, i love meth as much as the next person but don't defend the drug and make it seem harmless. You are making people belittle the dangers that can arise with drugs, like meth.

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

Psychedelic Wizard and his monkey logic. I think this guy should be banned, he usually blurts out false information out of anger and never agrees with evidence and research.

He is like the people who say MDMA isn't neurotoxic, i am still doing good in school you see! If you space it you will not run into damage.

Listen man, i love meth as much as the next person but don't defend the drug and make it seem harmless. You are making people belittle the dangers that can arise with drugs, like meth.

You are a prime example of what is wrong with the world's intellectual communities today. Do not like what someone has to say? Suppress them! Even if everything I typed down was outright lies and misinformation, I still should have the right to say it, as it is then your job to disprove me, if you cannot do that, then you are admitting by default, I am correct. Anyone who would silence someone out of fear is no different than burning the proverbial witch at the stake. Why do I know you know I'm right? Because of your hostility. If you thought I was crazy or stupid or obviously misinformed, there would be no hostility, only laughter and some form of a sarcastic response.

It is especially hilarious you mention "evidence and research" when all the "evidence and research" collected on "illegal drugs" is hilariously scarce, not to mention invariably maliciously controlled to produce favorable results to the establishment. Want to keep methamphetamine illegal? Get a few "scientists" that aren't afraid of skewing results and collecting skewed data, some "volunteers" who are easily influenced by suggestion, and viola! You now can conduct some "legitimate" scientific tests to prove the dangers of these terrible, soul-destroying Satanic drugs (hahaha)!

Oh, make sure you use a lot of scientific mumbo-jumbo jargon to make it sound intelligent, words like dopamine and neuro-receptor and vasoconstriction, words that no layperson would understand, therefore using that to add "credibility" to your house of cards. So yeah, consider me skeptical of a laughably small amount of studies conducted by biased governments not to be objectively neutral, but instead to simply arrive to conclusions that reinforce beliefs, the exact opposite of the Scientific Method. Or where you talking about those hundreds of private studies that somehow were able to conduct experiments using drugs that are illegal and record the information publicly? Oh wait...

Bumping your head on a wall is neurotoxic, breathing fumes from a car running on idle is neurotoxic, watching television is neurotoxic, sunlight is neurotoxic, haha, what else? Let's analyze this word "neurotoxic", shall we? It basically can be summarized that it destroys your brain, right? Well, how exactly? Based on even the studies your government has produced, it might damage serotonin receptors, but that is the extent of brain damage, is it not? Or does it also making you a drooling retard who is confined to a wheelchair and shits their pants automatically from henceforth?

Use your critical thinking a little stronger and you might find some more solid conclusions. Fear is what galvanizes your "research". I know people who actually have used drugs like MDMA every weekend for years and are actually happy people who function better than most, whereas I also know those who have never touched any drug, many of these are psychiatrists ironically, who are chronically depressed. Geeze, I wonder why that is the case? Almost like all your research is bullshit and nothing but a closed-loop of idiots spewing the idiocy of other idiots, who all have never even experimented to any great length, just burrow skewed results from others and confirm it. Tell me then, if any of these anti-drug people were so very happy, why do they always seem so fucking depressed and angry? Literally, every single person that was strongly against drugs, was a miserable person.

If what you were saying was true, even by simple logic, these people should be smiling and happy carefree types, but in reality, they have the exact same cross-section emotional response as drug users. Weird, huh?

There are dangerous that can arise from not doing meth, by the way. Things like obesity which can kill you faster than meth abuse. Not to mention social alienation, disorganized thinking, reduced cognitive control, impulsive behavior, reduced muscular strength, reduced intelligence quotient, and decreased metabolism, not to mention others.

I guess if you get your drug facts from a Mormon propaganda pamphlet delivered with a box of Girl Guide cookies, then you would type what you've typed.

Drugs are about as harmful as flying on an airplane, which is to say, the risks are vastly overstated.

I'll even go as far to say that drugs are actually healthy for you and lead to permanent improvements in many regards, but that just doesn't chuck-and-jive with the established worldview.

No, of course not, Vitamin C is healthy for you, but the concept that improving your metabolism, IQ, muscular strength, physical reflex response time from amphetamines? No way! Right...

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

Totally agree with all of the above. In theory tho, and pls correct me if I'm wrong, couldn't a typically healthy peron "drop"/ die instantly if they shot like a gram of good quality crystal in one hit? Like a huge amount that even a seasoned user would consider nuts??
Just asking

Re time between hits, my understanding is spacing them out for 6-12 hrs is better to keep your brain "level" - something to with the dopamine receptorsetc (I'm too spaced out and brain fizzled to Google the exact reasoning behind it!). Again tho, I could be wrong

I would not recommend shooting a gram or any absurd amount because everything we know about drugs is based on what other people claim they have experienced. Even official evidence is likewise sketchy at best.

There are people who have consumed multiple grams of amphetamines on a daily basis, which to me seems insane, but apparently has been done.

And yes, there are reports of people shooting 1.5 grams a day from the 60s, equally as bizarre.

Don't do it because it might kill you, but you also might have the time of your life. I guess it would depend on your tolerance and many factors.

Still, it is better to slowly increase doses as harm reduction suggests, than to experiment with this and end up dead. Again, you might end up having some sort of insanely positive experience, or you might instantly drop dead.

Hell, you might be able to literally time travel with high doses of LSD and DMT or something, or you might literally fry your brain to ending up in a permanent psyche ward.

Nobody really knows these things.

 

[Gkeel]

Damn sorry to hear that I'm sure all us tweak era been there before including me. All you can do is give it some time and try to relax. Be careful man

 

[Ds]

Omg OP quit your crying,aint no one forced you to do the shit, hell i wish someone would hold me down and spin a pyrex in my face hole.

Imagine if you had to go work construction all 3 of those days, i think of after those 3 days and think of howmuch $$$ I made.

 

[Nom de Plume]

I do quite a bit of methamphetamine or either dexedrine every other day. Whenever I feel over-stimulated (which is practically every time), I recourse to alcohol or barbiturates to take the edge off. Alcohol kind of sucks in this case, but barbiturates and benzodiazepines are most effective.

 

[RetiredMedic]

Seriously dude??! I'm all for harm prevention and if all signs point to a life threatening emergency then of course the person at risk needs to be told to get to an ER now etc BUT reply this will only cause further anxiety to poor Sicknesss909!
Getting yourself seriously fucked up for days on crystal with little or no sleep isn't wise or healthy and of course it comes with risk, but what they've described will be cured with sleep, food, hydration and laying off any drug for at least a while! Unfortunately I speak from experience.
My veins become impossible to see after a big binge too. vasoconstriction is caused by meth but it doesnt mean instant death! Geez!

So By telling him he should seek medical help instead of quite possibly staying at home and having something worse is better??? MMK I guess he could pet his Unicorn to clam his heart rate huh... Foolish
Of course unless you see it with your own eyes it never happens huh..Fkn lame....

 

[RetiredMedic]

You really don't just drop dead of a heart attack or your brain melts in a stroke from just smoking one hit like people seem to think. In reality, you simply cannot OD on meth unless you have some pre-existing health condition. Me and my friends have went through literally dozens of points in multi-day binges, that's 1.2 to 2.4 grams easily between us both, and we don't die, despite having done it way too many times and got bloodwork, heart rate, ECG, etc scans regularly and everything is in surprisingly nearly perfect condition, at the very least, averagely good.

If you took like a few grams at once you'd probably vomit or pass out depending how you took it. But seriously, people seem to think it works additively, which is a huge myth. IT is not like for every 100 milligrams you take your heart rate goes up so many points, so a bunch would make it beat so fast it would stop. No, in reality the heart rate, sweating, grinding of teeth, etc, are all just side effects, and while a higher dose might make them worse, some people might not even get them at any dose, and people overstate how much dosage matters with something like a stimulant. 100 milligrams or 400 isn't going to be much different. Once you are spun there's a limit to how spun you can get before it simply doesn't do anything else.

I'm not suggesting you use this to take as much as you want, because you might die from dirty dope or simply go psychotic, but in reality, meth simply doesn't kill people this way. It isn't like heroin or booze where there's a lethal level that makes your heart explode, no, it instead does the same as alcohol, it poisons your bloodstream if there's too much which can kill you from any kind of complication.

My advice to you is do much less and wait 10 minutes or even an hour between hits, as a meth addict on a binge, time goes so fast there's no excuse to not space it out and gauge how you feel. Since the stuff lasts so long, too many junkies go crazy at once and get too spun... sit back and toke on the pipe slow like you'd savour a fine wine, or needle only a bit, snort small lines, etc.

More studies, or are these wrong too? you believe what you want. I was only trying to offer solid advise hardly my OPINION...


Background
The use of methamphetamine is widespread and, in many countries, is a major drug of abuse. As such, it is important to identify and understand the adverse health effects associated with methamphetamine use and consider the risk of such consequences for users. Although methamphetamine has effects on multiple organ systems, this report will focus on the cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine. Specifically, the aim of this report is to review the evidence for methamphetamine-related cardiovascular pathology and discuss the implications for methamphetamine users.
Methamphetamine cardiotoxicity
Methamphetamine increases catecholamine activity in the branch of the peripheral nervous system responsible for modulating heart rate and blood pressure. Excessive catecholamine activity is thought to be the primary mechanism underlying the cardiotoxic effects of methamphetamine. High catecholamine levels are known to be cardiotoxic, causing narrowing and spasm of the blood vessels, rapid heart rate (tachycardia), high blood pressure (hypertension), and possible death of the heart muscle. Other features of catecholamine toxicity include the formation of fibrous tissue and an increase in the size of heart muscle cells.
Evidence of cardiotoxicity among methamphetamine users
The most widely reported adverse cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine use are chest pain, tachycardia and other cardiac arrhythmias, shortness of breath and high blood pressure. The less frequently observed, but more severe, acute cardiovascular complications of methamphetamine use are acute myocardial infarction, acute aortic dissection, and sudden cardiac death. The medical literature contained several single case reports and case series reports of acute myocardial infarction. Acute myocardial infarction often occurred in the absence of identifiable coronary artery disease.
The forms of chronic cardiovascular disease that are most commonly associated with methamphetamine use are coronary artery disease and cardiomyopathy. Studies of methamphetamine-related fatalities have suggested that methamphetamine users are at risk of the premature and accelerated development of coronary artery disease. Clinical and experimental evidence alike suggest that the use of methamphetamine, particularly long-term use, can induce cardiomyopathy. As with acute myocardial infarction, cardiomyopathy has been associated with various routes of methamphetamine administration (e.g. oral, smoking and intravenous).
Factors influencing the cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine
The necessary and sufficient dose to produce serious cardiovascular complications or death - that is, the “toxic” dose - is unclear, as the response to a specific dose varies due to individual differences in responsiveness and variations in degree of tolerance. The literature indicates that cardiovascular complications associated with methamphetamine use can occur with all of the major routes of administration: that is, intranasal, oral, smoking, and injecting. While there is no evidence to suggest that any one route of methamphetamine administration should be more strongly associated with cardiotoxicity than another, the risk of complications may be higher with patterns of use that are associated with frequent use and taking higher doses, such as injecting and smoking crystalline methamphetamine. Previous research also suggests that the risk of cardiovascular problems among methamphetamine users is increased when the drug is combined with alcohol, cocaine or opiates. Of particular concern is the concomitant use of methamphetamine and other psychostimulant drugs, such as cocaine, due to their potential synergistic effect on catecholamine activity.
Conclusions and recommendations
Low level use of methamphetamine - for example, sporadic, low dosage use - does not appear to be associated with major acute complications, such as myocardial infarction, or chronic cardiovascular disease, in an otherwise healthy user. Methamphetamine may, however, exacerbate pre-existing underlying cardiac pathology, such as coronary atherosclerosis or cardiomyopathy, thereby increasing the risk of an acute event such as myocardial infarction or even sudden cardiac death. Long-term methamphetamine users appear to be most at risk of cardiovascular damage, such as premature, accelerated coronary artery disease. As such, methamphetamine toxicity is more likely to have a fatal outcome with chronic use.
Given their high levels of polydrug use, methamphetamine users should also be made aware of the increased risk of adverse cardiovascular effects when methamphetamine is used with other drugs, particularly other psychostimulant drugs. Because of the individual variation in sensitivity to methamphetamine’s cardiotoxic properties, treating methamphetamine toxicity should be based on the symptom presentation rather than the reported dose administered.
Further research is needed to establish the risk of serious cardiac events among methamphetamine users, whether there is evidence of a dose-response relationship between methamphetamine use and cardiotoxicity in humans, and also the relative contribution of methamphetamine over other concurrent risk factors, such as tobacco smoking, alcohol and other drug use, obesity, and pre-existing cardiac pathology.
Citation: Kaye, S. and McKetin, R. (2005) Cardiotoxicity associated with methamphetamine use and signs of cardiovascular pathology among methamphetamine users, Sydney: National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre.

 

[spacetrippin]

Just yesterday I went threw that with back pains no euphoria, just helll!

 

[《Plasticity》]

You really don't just drop dead of a heart attack or your brain melts in a stroke from just smoking one hit like people seem to think. In reality, you simply cannot OD on meth unless you have some pre-existing health condition. Me and my friends have went through literally dozens of points in multi-day binges, that's 1.2 to 2.4 grams easily between us both, and we don't die, despite having done it way too many times and got bloodwork, heart rate, ECG, etc scans regularly and everything is in surprisingly nearly perfect condition, at the very least, averagely good.

If you took like a few grams at once you'd probably vomit or pass out depending how you took it. But seriously, people seem to think it works additively, which is a huge myth. IT is not like for every 100 milligrams you take your heart rate goes up so many points, so a bunch would make it beat so fast it would stop. No, in reality the heart rate, sweating, grinding of teeth, etc, are all just side effects, and while a higher dose might make them worse, some people might not even get them at any dose, and people overstate how much dosage matters with something like a stimulant. 100 milligrams or 400 isn't going to be much different. Once you are spun there's a limit to how spun you can get before it simply doesn't do anything else.

I'm not suggesting you use this to take as much as you want, because you might die from dirty dope or simply go psychotic, but in reality, meth simply doesn't kill people this way. It isn't like heroin or booze where there's a lethal level that makes your heart explode, no, it instead does the same as alcohol, it poisons your bloodstream if there's too much which can kill you from any kind of complication.

My advice to you is do much less and wait 10 minutes or even an hour between hits, as a meth addict on a binge, time goes so fast there's no excuse to not space it out and gauge how you feel. Since the stuff lasts so long, too many junkies go crazy at once and get too spun... sit back and toke on the pipe slow like you'd savour a fine wine, or needle only a bit, snort small lines, etc.

What a load of dangerous misinformation . I suggest you do some research and gain a better understanding of the subject before giving out any more advice, seriously. Fatal arrhythmias from meth can occur in otherwise healthy individuals, as can meth be the sole cause of chronic heart diseases such as dilated cardiomyopathy.

Also, just because people get away with certain things does not mean it is always safe and the risk of harm is minimal. I suggest admitting defeat and listening to what RetiredMedic has to say or at the least read some studies...

 

[Siccness909]

I must 2nd this^^ some of you may have read but back on 03072014 Iinduced Vtach from to much crystal and small amount of H. Heart was fluttering from 160-170bpm to 50-70bpm every3 seconds. Had to take a trip to ICU to fix my heart arrhythmia. Was very close to dying.

Had no preexisting heart conditions I might add either, I was a healthy individual aside from just general drug use.

 

[spacetrippin]

I used meth my 2ed time due to way to get addys, I took alot .3 id say, reason why is it didn't give me any euphoria? Oddd, I then had extreme chest tightness, prolly due to anxity, then it got bad numbness in feet,like they were falling asleep (felt great tho lol) then worst I got extreme pain in kidneys and back, but due too dehydrated from drinking on meth night before so I basically wasted my high doing research, then odd as hell after 5 hours I took a small oral dose and I got good amount of euphoria, just weird im not relly a stim user much soo any help would be cool

 

[spacetrippin]

Ohh I drank water and it killed the pain, but either way it was scary and not fun, also it made me hella lazy zero energy

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

More studies, or are these wrong too? you believe what you want. I was only trying to offer solid advise hardly my OPINION...


Background
The use of methamphetamine is widespread and, in many countries, is a major drug of abuse. As such, it is important to identify and understand the adverse health effects associated with methamphetamine use and consider the risk of such consequences for users. Although methamphetamine has effects on multiple organ systems, this report will focus on the cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine. Specifically, the aim of this report is to review the evidence for methamphetamine-related cardiovascular pathology and discuss the implications for methamphetamine users.
Methamphetamine cardiotoxicity
Methamphetamine increases catecholamine activity in the branch of the peripheral nervous system responsible for modulating heart rate and blood pressure. Excessive catecholamine activity is thought to be the primary mechanism underlying the cardiotoxic effects of methamphetamine. High catecholamine levels are known to be cardiotoxic, causing narrowing and spasm of the blood vessels, rapid heart rate (tachycardia), high blood pressure (hypertension), and possible death of the heart muscle. Other features of catecholamine toxicity include the formation of fibrous tissue and an increase in the size of heart muscle cells.
Evidence of cardiotoxicity among methamphetamine users
The most widely reported adverse cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine use are chest pain, tachycardia and other cardiac arrhythmias, shortness of breath and high blood pressure. The less frequently observed, but more severe, acute cardiovascular complications of methamphetamine use are acute myocardial infarction, acute aortic dissection, and sudden cardiac death. The medical literature contained several single case reports and case series reports of acute myocardial infarction. Acute myocardial infarction often occurred in the absence of identifiable coronary artery disease.
The forms of chronic cardiovascular disease that are most commonly associated with methamphetamine use are coronary artery disease and cardiomyopathy. Studies of methamphetamine-related fatalities have suggested that methamphetamine users are at risk of the premature and accelerated development of coronary artery disease. Clinical and experimental evidence alike suggest that the use of methamphetamine, particularly long-term use, can induce cardiomyopathy. As with acute myocardial infarction, cardiomyopathy has been associated with various routes of methamphetamine administration (e.g. oral, smoking and intravenous).
Factors influencing the cardiovascular effects of methamphetamine
The necessary and sufficient dose to produce serious cardiovascular complications or death - that is, the “toxic” dose - is unclear, as the response to a specific dose varies due to individual differences in responsiveness and variations in degree of tolerance. The literature indicates that cardiovascular complications associated with methamphetamine use can occur with all of the major routes of administration: that is, intranasal, oral, smoking, and injecting. While there is no evidence to suggest that any one route of methamphetamine administration should be more strongly associated with cardiotoxicity than another, the risk of complications may be higher with patterns of use that are associated with frequent use and taking higher doses, such as injecting and smoking crystalline methamphetamine. Previous research also suggests that the risk of cardiovascular problems among methamphetamine users is increased when the drug is combined with alcohol, cocaine or opiates. Of particular concern is the concomitant use of methamphetamine and other psychostimulant drugs, such as cocaine, due to their potential synergistic effect on catecholamine activity.
Conclusions and recommendations
Low level use of methamphetamine - for example, sporadic, low dosage use - does not appear to be associated with major acute complications, such as myocardial infarction, or chronic cardiovascular disease, in an otherwise healthy user. Methamphetamine may, however, exacerbate pre-existing underlying cardiac pathology, such as coronary atherosclerosis or cardiomyopathy, thereby increasing the risk of an acute event such as myocardial infarction or even sudden cardiac death. Long-term methamphetamine users appear to be most at risk of cardiovascular damage, such as premature, accelerated coronary artery disease. As such, methamphetamine toxicity is more likely to have a fatal outcome with chronic use.
Given their high levels of polydrug use, methamphetamine users should also be made aware of the increased risk of adverse cardiovascular effects when methamphetamine is used with other drugs, particularly other psychostimulant drugs. Because of the individual variation in sensitivity to methamphetamine’s cardiotoxic properties, treating methamphetamine toxicity should be based on the symptom presentation rather than the reported dose administered.
Further research is needed to establish the risk of serious cardiac events among methamphetamine users, whether there is evidence of a dose-response relationship between methamphetamine use and cardiotoxicity in humans, and also the relative contribution of methamphetamine over other concurrent risk factors, such as tobacco smoking, alcohol and other drug use, obesity, and pre-existing cardiac pathology.
Citation: Kaye, S. and McKetin, R. (2005) Cardiotoxicity associated with methamphetamine use and signs of cardiovascular pathology among methamphetamine users, Sydney: National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre.

Even these studies don't show people dropping dead instantly of illnesses, without pre-existing conditions. Long-term use? Then why do non-drug users have virtually the same rates of cardiovascular-related deaths?

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

What a load of dangerous misinformation . I suggest you do some research and gain a better understanding of the subject before giving out any more advice, seriously. Fatal arrhythmias from meth can occur in otherwise healthy individuals, as can meth be the sole cause of chronic heart diseases such as dilated cardiomyopathy.

Also, just because people get away with certain things does not mean it is always safe and the risk of harm is minimal. I suggest admitting defeat and listening to what RetiredMedic has to say or at the least read some studies...

I don't need to read some bullshit fear-mongering "studies". I just listed real-life examples of military personnel in World War II and beyond using high doses of stimulants on a regular basis, along with carrying heavy amounts of gear, engaging in intense cardiovascular movement, and being food/sleep deprived. How the fuck did so many veterans of World War II live to be 80 or 90 if these stimulants "wrecked your heart"? Many, if not most soldiers, also smoked and drank heavily, most continued these habits well into their middle ages or even elder years.

Also, I personally know several tweakers who have done meth chronically for over a decade, and they have no heart problems... hmm... stranger.

Not saying you shouldn't get your heart checked with an EKG and bloodtest a few times a year to be safe, but I seriously think most people who worry about heart problems actually get panic attacks/anxiety, which mimics heart problems.

Your heart won't just stop working for no reason. Meth is no more dangerous than running.

 

[PsychedelicWizard]

I must 2nd this^^ some of you may have read but back on 03072014 Iinduced Vtach from to much crystal and small amount of H. Heart was fluttering from 160-170bpm to 50-70bpm every3 seconds. Had to take a trip to ICU to fix my heart arrhythmia. Was very close to dying.

Had no preexisting heart conditions I might add either, I was a healthy individual aside from just general drug use.

Unless you did a shitload like several grams of crystal, I'm guessing you got some seriously bad cut shit.

Of course that's the risk with street drugs, and I'm guessing ALL (or the vast majority) of deaths outside of ridiculous dosages or pre-existing conditions/combining with other drugs and/or too much exercise, were from bad dope.