I got a lot of questions about MDMA in crystal form!

[lab slave]

Ok, so in my city (at least for now) MDMA crystal seems to have largely overtaken the ecstasy market. Pills are becoming less common and less popular. As far as I can tell this is happening in other places as well. The general consensus is that crystals or MDMA caps are less likely to be adulterated and are the more respectable option. A lot of people also seem to have the idea that crystal form means 100% pure. I'd really like to put together an info page so that people can get the facts if they want them.

These are some of the questions I have:

What are the typical street purities of MDMA crystal?

How would someone test the purity of a bunch of MDMA? (I known about the marquis test etc but this won't give an idea of % purity, these tests just reveal rough contents).

How easy is it to adulterate a crystal?

Is it practical or easy for ordinary users to purify the crystals further?

Does the colour indicate anything?

What byproducts/precursors might show up in the crystal?

And something I just picked up from reading another thread: Is a 100mg of MDMA.HCL crystal actually only 84mg, ie less than a typical dose (as proposed by shulgin etc. (I am now confused about this. (er thanks guys))).

Maybe there is too many questions here. Sorry about that. But maybe this will grow and after a while all the info gets filled in.

 

[LuGoJ]

Ok, so in my city (at least for now) MDMA crystal seems to have largely overtaken the ecstasy market. Pills are becoming less common and less popular. As far as I can tell this is happening in other places as well. The general consensus is that crystals or MDMA caps are less likely to be adulterated and are the more respectable option. A lot of people also seem to have the idea that crystal form means 100% pure. I'd really like to put together an info page so that people can get the facts if they want them.

These are some of the questions I have:

What are the typical street purities of MDMA crystal?

How would someone test the purity of a bunch of MDMA? (I known about the marquis test etc but this won't give an idea of % purity, these tests just reveal rough contents).

How easy is it to adulterate a crystal?

Is it practical or easy for ordinary users to purify the crystals further?

Does the colour indicate anything?

What byproducts/precursors might show up in the crystal?

And something I just picked up from reading another thread: Is a 100mg of MDMA.HCL crystal actually only 84mg, ie less than a typical dose (as proposed by shulgin etc. (I am now confused about this. (er thanks guys))).

Maybe there is too many questions here. Sorry about that. But maybe this will grow and after a while all the info gets filled in.

What are the typical street purities of MDMA crystal? 0-100%

How would someone test the purity of a bunch of MDMA? (I known about the marquis test etc but this won't give an idea of % purity, these tests just reveal rough contents). You can't unless you have expensive lab equipment

How easy is it to adulterate a crystal? Extremely, i would say easier to adulterate than pills because every single person the product moves through can step on it. Only someone with a pill press can adulterate a pill.

Is it practical or easy for ordinary users to purify the crystals further? Don't know

Does the colour indicate anything? No

What byproducts/precursors might show up in the crystal? Not sure

And something I just picked up from reading another thread: Is a 100mg of MDMA.HCL crystal actually only 84mg, ie less than a typical dose (as proposed by shulgin etc. (I am now confused about this. (er thanks guys))). THis is a subject of much debate, there is a thread on the first or second page dedicated to this.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

And something I just picked up from reading another thread: Is a 100mg of MDMA.HCL crystal actually only 84mg, ie less than a typical dose (as proposed by shulgin etc. (I am now confused about this. (er thanks guys))). THis is a subject of much debate, there is a thread on the first or second page dedicated to this.

No it would be the same dose.
All dosages listed for MDMA and all dosages that people give to you would be for the HCL salt.
Freebase MDMA (meaning it doesn't use HCL to form its crystal structure) is waxy and oily if I'm not mistaken.
When someone says 120mg dose that means 120mg of HCL salt
The 84% only means that in HCL only 84% can be mdma and the rest will be HCL
It is relatively easy to purify crystals further, you can use an acetone wash
Some cuts like MSM can be used to recrystallize MDMA, it can be fairly common practice with methamphetamine

 

[matt2012]

Is it practical or easy for ordinary users to purify the crystals further? Don't know.

not really...it is realatively easy for a novice to clean MDMA of adulterants that are soluable in an OTC solvant that disolves MDMA or the adluterant but not both. but alot of adulterants used to cut MDMA are soluable in the same sulvants as MDMA. when that is the case is take alot of expensive glas ware and a great deal of lab/chem knowledge to separate them without degrading or losing the MDMA.

What byproducts/precursors might show up in the crystal? Not sure

Depends on the synth used and the lad technique of the producer. some common byproducts can be unreacted safrol, solvents, impureties that can from dirty solvents, unreacted MD-P2P.

And something I just picked up from reading another thread: Is a 100mg of MDMA.HCL crystal actually only 84mg, ie less than a typical dose (as proposed by shulgin etc. (I am now confused about this. (er thanks guys))). THis is a subject of much debate, there is a thread on the first or second page dedicated to this.

you really didn't understand that discussion then.....100mg of MDMA.hcl is 100mg of MDMA.hcl....you want the HCL...the 84% shit is just fancy science talk that chemist were tossing around and it got picked up by the dealers who quickly turned it into a gimmick to sell MDMA. When people are talking about MDMA they are talking about MDMA.HCL

 

[lab slave]

Thanks for the info! I don't think it's very useful to say that street purity ranges between 0-100% however. I was thinking more about the average range of purity that folks acutally receive. Sure occasionally people are going to get scammed with 0%. But in my experience of many years I haven't really seen a huge variation in quality. I've certainly never seen uncut crystal that was only half as strong as expected - as you see pretty often with pills. If I had to guess I would say purity is varying between 80-100%. (In my experience).

As far as an ordinary joe testing for purity all I could think of recommending would be doing the marquis as precisely as possible ie with some kind of pipette or something. Theoretically you could compare the reaction speed between two different crystals right?

Go to go now but I'll be back in a week.

 

[Clocktower]

I don't think it's very useful to say that street purity ranges between 0-100%

Frankly it's not very useful to say anything about "typical" purity either, because there's so much variation. "Typical" implies that "most" crystals fall within a certain range of purity, but that's not really the case, at least in the USA. AFAIK, crystal that's completely bunk is just as common as stuff that's half sugar or 100% pure. In some places you're just as likely (if not more) to pick up pure methylone, for example.

Of course, there isn't a lot of data to support that assumption, but there also isn't any data that says "most MDMA is 80% pure." Your experience may be lucky, but unfortunately you can't extrapolate it to your entire city.

 

[haillj]

I would trust the crystal form well before I would ever consider taking the pills/capsules; The crystallized powder is the pure MDMA. When you get the pills or capsules, it's kinda like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. I dug up some information for you guys, so PLEASE READ... HAVE FUN but BE SAFE PEOPLE...
*~* MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine), popularly known as ecstasy or, more recently, as Molly, is a synthetic, psychoactive drug that has similarities to both the stimulant amphetamine and the hallucinogen mescaline.
*~* MDMA is taken orally, usually as a capsule or tablet. The popular term Molly (slang for “molecular”) refers to the pure crystalline powder form of MDMA, usually sold in capsules. The drug’s effects last approximately 3 to 6 hours, although it is not uncommon for users to take a second dose of the drug as the effects of the first dose begin to fade. It is commonly taken in combination with other drugs.
*~*Compounding the risks is the fact that ecstasy pills and capsules of supposedly pure “Molly” sometimes actually contain other drugs instead of, or mixed with the pure MDMA. Those may include ephedrine (a stimulant), dextromethorphan (a cough suppressant), ketamine, caffeine, cocaine, methamphetamine, or even (most recently), synthetic cathinones, which is the psychoactive ingredients in “bath salts”. These substances are harmful alone and may be particularly dangerous mixed with MDMA. Users who intentionally or a lot of times unknowingly combine such a mixture with additional substances such as marijuana and alcohol may be putting themselves at even higher risk for adverse health effects.

 

[Folley]

It is extremely hard to find the actual purity of street MDMA, best bet is not to guess at all.

The only way to actually determine the purity is through GC/MS or other advanced testing

Quite easy. Anyone who's taken first year chemistry (and most who haven't) can do it with the right knowhow. Methamphetamine is often "re-rocked" with MSM and this practice has carried over to MDMA as well.

Yes, somewhat. Look into an acetone of other solvent based wash.

Not really, not. It can give a hint but even a tiny, tiny impurity could stain the entire batch brown. Just the same, there are MANY white byproducts that are just as dangerous.

All sorts of contaminants in the precursors and illegally sourced chemicals could taint a batch. 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol has shown up a few times though
http://www.ecstasydata.org/search.p...city=&source=&m1=&y1=&m2=&y2=&state=&country=




100mg of MDMA.HCl is 100mg of MDMA.HCl as long as it is the only chemical in a sample. Since the HCl is bound to the MDMA molecule, forming one chemical salt, it is pure.

 

[futura2012]

These are some of the questions I have:

What are the typical street purities of MDMA crystal?

On the basis ecstasydata.org cannot print purity information then answering this question is pure speculation. No one knows he true answer to this. Perhaps some the of the USA and UK forensic test labs may have a better idea but even then information coming from these places would have to be questioned on the basis they are funded and contolled by the government.

How would someone test the purity of a bunch of MDMA? (I known about the marquis test etc but this won't give an idea of % purity, these tests just reveal rough contents).

In terms of average raver then all you can do is reagent test. This wont tell you purity. Having a set of accurate scales measuring out accurate doses and seeing "how fucked" you get is about as good as it gets.

GC/MS or TLC are some of the main methods to detrmine purity. Neither is particularly raver friendly

How easy is it to adulterate a crystal?

To crush up and add other adulterants EASY. To break down and recrystalize MEDIUM a small amount of chemistry knowledge could pull this off your average street dealer I would say may or may not know how to do this.

If you really want to get savvy you can break down, add adulterants and recrystalize into crystals that look like works of art this I would say is HARD.

Is it practical or easy for ordinary users to purify the crystals further?

Certain techniques yes. Even then you still need to have an understanding of what you are doing as you will be handling additional chemicals, glassware etc and you could lose your product with silly mistakes.

Does the colour indicate anything?

Yes it indicates what colour dye was used at the time of manufacture. It tells you nothing about whats in the product other than the dye.

What byproducts/precursors might show up in the crystal?

Crystalization is the process of turning a liquid or a gas into a solid. Effectively whatever is in the liquid or gas will show up in the crystal. Clearly some compounds wont crystalize but many will so its very hard to give a definite list. In summary to your question A LOT of stuff will show up.

And something I just picked up from reading another thread: Is a 100mg of MDMA.HCL crystal actually only 84mg, ie less than a typical dose (as proposed by shulgin etc. (I am now confused about this. (er thanks guys))).

Yes you have it right. 100mg of MDMA.HCL in weight is 84% MDMA molecule and 16% hydrochloric acid molecule. The two molecules are bonded together in what is known as an ionic bond. The MDMA molecule is heavier than the HCL molecule hence this distribution of ratio weight.

 

[scureto1]

All sorts of contaminants in the precursors and illegally sourced chemicals could taint a batch. 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol has shown up a few times though
http://www.ecstasydata.org/search.p...city=&source=&m1=&y1=&m2=&y2=&state=&country=

That's pretty interesting. The propanol is probably a by-product of the reaction that converts MDP2P to MDMA. It is usually a "two-steps-in-one" process called a reductive amination. The double bonded oxygen is replaced by a double-bonded nitrogen (this is the amination), and then the double bond is reduced to a single bond (this is the reduction). With some of the methods by which this can be done, if the conditions aren't right, these steps can happen in the wrong order. If the reduction happens before the amination, the double-bonded oxygen becomes a single-bonded oxygen and produces an alcohol (the -propanol portion of the impurity you mentioned). The alcohol can't be aminated in these conditions, so it is stuck this way.

 

[Folley]

Yes you have it right. 100mg of MDMA.HCL in weight is 84% MDMA molecule and 16% hydrochloric acid molecule. The two molecules are bonded together in what is known as an ionic bond. The MDMA molecule is heavier than the HCL molecule hence this distribution of ratio weight.

Does he? I don't think so.. What he is thinking is that the 84mg is MDMA.HCl, but since all dosages listed use the salt form of the drug there is NO REASON to bring this up.

You're just confusing things further by perpetuating this myth. 100mg = 100mg as long as there are no added adulterants. It may be 84mg of the base.. but that doesn't fucking matter. At all. It's useless, confusing data. I wish it would die.