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I get very afraid of dying

This single post will function as a reply to ComfortablyNumb95 and - =SS=-.
As a caveat to whomever may be reading this text, I am not a good writer and this post was written on a smartphone therefore limiting my editing ability. So, here goes nothing (no, really) :

There are people who may not have any death anxiety or a relatively insignificant quantity of death anxiety. My contention is that such a state of existence without much or any death anxiety is only possible through one's mythological beliefs and fictions about death and/or what happens after death.

If one were to stand naked — disencumbered of their religious convictions, cultural artifacts, feel-good notions of some postmortem empyreal place of unmitigated bliss, belief in an immortal soul or transmigration of that soul and on and on — in the face of death and with a complete recognition that what they face is utterly unknown, the primordial fear of death will show itself.

As far as the presupposition of hiding your death anxiety under infinite layers of ideology being some bizarre and arcane way of "true" self-discovery: I ask how can the rejection of a quality ( or component) of an entity — mortality, as in this case — lead to discovering that entity as it truly is?

While we cannot ponder death itself, we can and commonly do see what causes it: disease, agony, mental anguish, pain, brutality, etc. The man indifferent of being viciously ambushed, mauled and masticated by a tiger is either an evolutionary lemon, a diluted fool, or insensate.

But one could certainly argue that pain and death are distinct and thus one can fear pain that leads to dying but not fear the dying. But could over 3 billion years of gradual evolution had lasted such an imponderable duration if it didn't produce and replicate an aversion to death and an urge to thrive in lifeforms? It incontrovertibly would have made for a brief and pathetic event in earth's early history be the answer no.

A sufficiently-perspicacious person should notice the incongruity with a) proclaiming to not fear death and have no ego and b) somehow still mustering up enough self-importance and admiration of attention to proclaim this belief to others and debate those who disagree. The asseveration of one's POV is in essence a tacit asseveration of one's perception of their thinking's meaningfulness and therein their perfectly-intact and functional ego is revealed.

Moreover, the existence of any asseveration or identity, vocation, aspiration, acquisition, beliefs, etc., cannot be logically or objectively rationalized as being other than supplying material for one's own eulogy. Why are you who you are, and why do you strive endlessly to build a story or purpose for yourself? All of the days of all of the lives of the whole population is spent toiling in the mud to construct, edit, augment, and defend a unique self that is only to die of senescence or trauma.

Why does the diligent author labor over writing a book when such an object as a book is incredibly short lived? For the hope that the story the book contains can achieve what its fragile chassis cannot —immortality. You live for your eulogy. That is to say, you live because you want to be remembered.

You have an ego, no matter if it whispers in your ear one day and says otherwise. Your ego is why you do practically any activity that is not accounted for by physiology alone. You are ostensibly too important to die or perhaps you aren't satisfied with what you've hitherto provided for the protagonist of the narrative of your post-funeral biography or obituary. Therefore, we can make the inference of death anxiety and ego being inextricably linked.

Death threatens the ego into anxiety by reminding it of its inconsequential nature and impermanence. In conclusion, a self-aware being is a self-absorbed being. A self-absorbed being fears death by its very nature.
 
I said that not fearing Death is becoming your truest self because it's your "ego" that fears death, and you are in no way your ego.

I don't see it like rejecting mortality, rather embracing it, for you cannot fully embrace life without embracing death.
but you make good points and I respect your opinion.
 
I said that not fearing Death is becoming your truest self because it's your "ego" that fears death, and you are in no way your ego.

I don't see it like rejecting mortality, rather embracing it, for you cannot fully embrace life without embracing death.
but you make good points and I respect your opinion.

First, I should commend you for your respecting my opinion, capacity to form a cogent thought, and refraining from irascible personal attacks and sarcasm when met with different points of view. The latter quality being unfortunately so rare on and off the Internet these days.

Second, I feel I should thank you for even taking the time reading my response. I admit that, while writing it, I feared it being scorned for its verbosity or, if at all read, misinterpreted by dint of its combining of this topic — a topic such that, by virtue of the English language's lexicon's history and shortcomings, it can be more easily discussed in say, Sanskrit or Pali — and my own phraseology.

And third, I feel I should speak to the topic at hand. Your argument is well-taken and well-formed, and it seems our dissension rests on only differences in perspective. Therefore, any further riposte or debate is argumentative and completely unproductive.

There is a saying in Latin:

De gustibus non est disputandum (which literally translates thus " There is no disputing of tastes").

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but your position is that the ego and the self are two distinct entities such that the presence of one is not a necessary and sufficient condition for the presence of the other. I opine that the ego and the self each are currently no more than philosophical concepts too amorphous and ill-defined (perhaps undefinable) to allow for serious and meaningful discussion and analysis.

While it is harmless and intellectually healthy (and of course entertaining) to engage in mere speculation or simply thinking aloud about these two terms' definitions and possible interrelationship, disputation thereof is puerile and dogmatic.

With that all said, I believe the only rational and appropriate retort, if indeed one exists, is thusly:

"Yes, but I disagree."
 
While I enjoy and appreciate the astounding insight and percipience of ancient intellectuals such as Abhinavagupta, Pa nini, Socrates, Guatama, Confucius, et al., none of them have, as per their own definitions, overcome this primordial fear or death anxiety. The genius of Buddha, for example, was not his perseverance in attempting to attain a state of vanquished dukkha and his subsequent awakening (awakening being no more than transcending his primordial fear and innate consternation and disquietude — an impossibly). His brilliance resided in his persuading others that they too can become undo their human, cut themselves free of the fetters of their selfhood and transmogrify into a sort of quasi-notself! A very self-centered and self-depended way of relinquishing your self. But just as the object cannot create itself, it cannot uncreate itself. A robot programmed to dismantle itself will only fail once enough parts are removed to disable the robot from completing the task.

Ah but doesn't the same hold true for modern psychology/medicine? Here I am taking these Clonazepams and they stop anxiety in as far as I exercise their use. However in the long run they cause the same symptoms for that which they are supposed to cure. This is true for a lot of modern (pharmacological) drugs. Is this not the very same critique you have? "The object cannot create itself, it cannot uncreate itself?" It seems humanity still hasn't rid themselves of the whole hubris thing yet. That would be my only issue with your statement. It is completely correct but we still haven't escaped it. Anyway I get your overall message I just had to nit-pick a little.
 
i had an interesting 'death' experience in the depths of a 5meoDMT trip. it was set in the time of the french revolution and i was being guillotined. the vision was incredibly real: the smell, the sounds, the ominous walk up the steps, etc.

i had heard somebody say a few days earlier "at the moment of death all life's questions are answered". i was thinking about this at the point at which my head was cut off. my trip moved on somewhere else after that... if you have tried 5meoDMT you'll know that it's pretty intense. i was, during the trip in danger of freaking myself out.

however, i kept coming back to the saying and it was, rather, a really serene experience.

anyway, if the saying is true, i can't wait to find out where all those lost socks went :)

alasdair

Dang Alasdairm, I have to say I just love your humour. Always brightens my day. 'socks' tee heeheheh
thanks for that.
 
Dear O.P

Bunch of smarties here so I've not much to offer; only a personal experience. Born with a rare 'thing' in my head that has been mostly removed through many surgeries. Now, many many years later I'm still here and glad to be but I must say, living with the notion that each Season could be a last one has offered certain insights, appreciations if you will. I firmly believe we are energies and once the body kicks it, we are freed. Where we go i have no idea but I hope I can still fly like I do in my dreams, that i have eyes to see.
To me, 'death' is a change of form.
Our time here in this form is precious. I do not waste it nor get overly involved in material gains or rat race endeavours. Of course I do NOT want to leave until i am very very old. I love it here. This place is beautiful all in all.
Don't be afraid. Just embrace the time you do have
 
A lot of people here have said great things. It's true, it will happen in any case so it should just be accepted and that is that. If death is like deep sleep, it's not so bad, you won't know anyway. If it is merging with the infinite, it is probably something beautiful, all events, past, present and future all colliding at once and being one with it all. Infinite love and connection, etc. Emotions would probably cease to exist as they do, we wouldn't experience them emotionally, but rather just as concepts we can manipulate and create with. If anything, I would be more afraid of existence but with isolation and infinity in the Void... now THAT would scare me. But I really don't think that we can be forced into the Void, rather it is a choice in one form or another.

Infinity can be experienced in the blink of an eye. When I first experienced DMT, I got a sense of what the infinite would be like, the infinite spirit that exists between physical "lives" that we have, are and will create at will. Everything all wrapped into one, incomprehensible but yet comprehensible, and ever all-encompassing - and it will be what we make it. So there's no reason to be afraid. Ever.
 
As my life in this body and time has gotten to be more behind me than in front of me, I find that my affection for this "me" grows. It takes the form of gratitude for what my eyes see in this life, what my heart loves, etc--all the earthly and human pleasures of sensation and emotion, the uniquely human ecstasy of humor--and I find myself having a new resistance to the idea of death that is more akin to a toddler that does not want to stop doing something that she is fully engaged with and enjoying. It has nothing to do with what I may imagine happens next, which doesn't even concern me, but with this feeling of a good book ending and not wanting it to. There are always more good books--my mind knows that--but in the thrall of the one you are reading, that story becomes everything. I remember so well having to literally physically pull my kids away from things they did not want to stop doing when they were little. That is how I picture dying for me now: "No, I won't go! I don't wanna go! Don't make me! Just 5 more minutes! Please??" There are worse things than savoring something so much that you rue the end of it.

Having said that, I can also say that the death of my son changed everything, including my own relationship to what I have described above. I do not believe that we will be reunited or that I will "see" him again because one of the thoughts that brings me great peace is that he was able to be free of the pain that his ego/mind held--in other words he is no longer he. I am comforted because I know that when my time comes I will be excited to be entering wherever and whatever he entered before me, to be folded back into whatever we are folded back into.
 
There is a saying in Latin:

De gustibus non est disputandum (which literally translates thus " There is no disputing of tastes").

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but your position is that the ego and the self are two distinct entities such that the presence of one is not a necessary and sufficient condition for the presence of the other. I opine that the ego and the self each are currently no more than philosophical concepts too amorphous and ill-defined (perhaps undefinable) to allow for serious and meaningful discussion and analysis.

While it is harmless and intellectually healthy (and of course entertaining) to engage in mere speculation or simply thinking aloud about these two terms' definitions and possible interrelationship, disputation thereof is puerile and dogmatic.

With that all said, I believe the only rational and appropriate retort, if indeed one exists, is thusly:

"Yes, but I disagree."

sorry for the late response.
I totally agree with the part I quote, "ego" and "self" are really just terms and every debite about them is purely speculative.

as a side note, I don't necessarily consider the aforementioned to be "distinct entities", rather two parts of a whole.
the ego is indeed a part of myself which, I feel, I have to "let go" (not eliminate) to elevate myself.
but I'm only 18 so I may change my mind someday.

have a good day :)
 
I believe that when I die my soul with fly through the universe and I will finally know what it's like to be swallowed through a black hole and into another dimension where I will be reincarnated as something not understood by the human mind yet.
 
You my friend are Energy and it is impossible for energy to cease to exist. That is a quote from Albert Einstein although not word for word
 
I used to be very afraid of dying, but then I realized that what I am really afraid of is to lose contact with my loved ones when I have passed. It terrifies me to think that I would not be able to be with my family or my friends. Secondly, I am not ready to lose the life I have not fully lived, i want to be able to experience more, acquire more knowledge, meet more people, travel, feel the air, drink the water, nourish myself.
 
I used to be very afraid of dying, but then I realized that what I am really afraid of is to lose contact with my loved ones when I have passed. It terrifies me to think that I would not be able to be with my family or my friends. Secondly, I am not ready to lose the life I have not fully lived, i want to be able to experience more, acquire more knowledge, meet more people, travel, feel the air, drink the water, nourish myself.

I understand that because I used to feel the same way. But then I realized when you die one of 2 things happens... either:

1) you don't know about it when it happens so it doesn't matter anyway

or

2) when you die, time doesn't progress the same anymore - past, present and future are all simultaneous, as are all souls and conscious beings, along with All of consciousness itself; you won't miss your family or friends, or lose contact with them, because you will already be with them after you die. As far as not living the life you have fully lived, the same principle applies - in the afterlife, you will have experienced it already anyway by merging with the mere possibility of it, you will have already lived the timeline and can choose to live the timeline again in this physical reality if your consciousness so chooses. You will have met everyone, seen everything, etc, regardless of whether you did or were able to do it in THIS life or not - trust me, once you have passed on, you will have experienced it anyway, in a different way, and the emotions you are attaching to the thought of it now won't exist in the same way either. In other words, nothing you stated will matter because consciousness separated from the physical body experiences existence in a vastly different way than our feeble minds can ever perceive it to be in this physical form.

So really, you either won't know, or won't care... and you won't be alone... you will be one with it all. None of us are ever alone. Our ego separates us from each other and our surroundings. Once you die, the ego is gone. Only consciousness exists. I don't know if what I am saying makes sense to you, but I just want to emphasize that death is not what you think, so there is no reason to be afraid of those things you said.
 
^Thank you for your input :)

I used to think this way too, that since we have souls, there is a possibility of being reborn or reincarnated again, and that we will all meet in the afterlife.

I just wished there is an evidence of afterlife, or existing again in another period of time.
 
Scientific evidence works well but only goes so far as the physical dimensions in which we are familiar with regarding quantum mechanics and general relativity and such. So absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Also, the fact that none of us can do anything to prove it or do anything about proving, means we should not worry about it. Why worry about something you can't change? And why worry about something you can't prove? That means it's tie to move on to the present, the Now, and use that to the best of our ability; keep it simple :)

Have you ever experienced DMT, or Ayahuasca, by any chance?
 
Your right man ^^^^dmt and ayahuasca are very good for overcoming personal challenges such as being afraid of dying or learning to live with the death of someone close to you.
 
Scientific evidence works well but only goes so far as the physical dimensions in which we are familiar with regarding quantum mechanics and general relativity and such. So absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Also, the fact that none of us can do anything to prove it or do anything about proving, means we should not worry about it. Why worry about something you can't change? And why worry about something you can't prove? That means it's tie to move on to the present, the Now, and use that to the best of our ability; keep it simple :)

Have you ever experienced DMT, or Ayahuasca, by any chance?

Nope, never experienced any of these.

I am very skeptical about anything these days. I rely on Science, evidence, facts.

However I look at it, it all comes down to emotions. The sadness that strikes me whenever I think of dying, specifically if it is sudden. These are normal emotions that a person feel regarding a specific death of a loved one or someone close to you, so I don't think I need to suppress these feelings by experiencing dmt or ayahuasca.

IMO, fear will always be a part of the process of dying, but with acceptance of fear, also comes the part of accepting your fate.
 
Nope, never experienced any of these.

I am very skeptical about anything these days. I rely on Science, evidence, facts.

However I look at it, it all comes down to emotions. The sadness that strikes me whenever I think of dying, specifically if it is sudden. These are normal emotions that a person feel regarding a specific death of a loved one or someone close to you, so I don't think I need to suppress these feelings by experiencing dmt or ayahuasca.

IMO, fear will always be a part of the process of dying, but with acceptance of fear, also comes the part of accepting your fate.


Well, the acceptance of fear, if it is there, IS definitely important, yes. You are definitely right about that. Acceptance of any thought or emotion is definitely key in life, no doubt. Period.

However, DMT and/or Ayahuasca use in no way whatsoever "suppresses" feelings of sadness regarding death, or anything along those lines. They seem to have the ability to show you a glimpse into the afterlife, if you intuitively perceive it that way, which many do - not based from logical conclusions, but just from a sense of "feeling" it. It helps you understand death, and what lies beyond, which naturally takes away some of that fear afterwards - not as a direct effect of the drug, but as a result of experiencing what was learned while on it. I felt as though I was taking a short field trip to experience what lies beyond... So these are not "escape drugs". You wouldn't use them like alcohol, or opiates, or even pot, to help yourself temporarily feel better and avoid natural feelings, such as sadness, that the mind and body are supposed to experience on a normal basis.

An example, as you said, many people when thinking of death, especially when involving a loved one, creates sadness. For me it no longer does. Sure I will miss them, especially if I was close with them, and that creates sadness for me in a sense, definitely, but the concept of them dying no longer creates sadness. Not because I am suppressing the sadness with drugs to escape, but because I feel I have a greater understanding of death through both my own philosophizing, in addition to the use of those compounds. They are kind of a tool, a learning experience. Some people experience out of body experiences without even taking drugs. Something happens, and they may end up in the hospital room. They claim to have experienced "leaving their body, seeing a light, coming into contact with a being, sensing something there". After coming back, they regard these experiences as real, and those people who experience these things, tend to in general be less afraid of death afterwards and much more accepting of it, simply due to a greater understanding and level of comfort regarding it.

You rely on science, evidence and facts, which is good - you are probably a very independent, original, analytical person who is determined to derive meaning from your intuitive interpretations of the outside world and make definitive judgmental conclusions about them. Because of this, unfortunately I can't give you anymore than I have regarding the concept of death. All I can do is urge you to experiment on your own to find the logical conclusions you need. I personally am more at peace now as far as anyone dying. Sure I miss them greatly, but I now have more confidence that they are doing alright, and that death is only the next part of the infinity that has always existed, and always will.
 
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I understand that because I used to feel the same way. But then I realized when you die one of 2 things happens... either:


2) when you die, time doesn't progress the same anymore - past, present and future are all simultaneous, as are all souls and conscious beings, along with All of consciousness itself; you won't miss your family or friends, or lose contact with them, because you will already be with them after you die. As far as not living the life you have fully lived, the same principle applies - in the afterlife, you will have experienced it already anyway by merging with the mere possibility of it, you will have already lived the timeline and can choose to live the timeline again in this physical reality if your consciousness so chooses. You will have met everyone, seen everything, etc, regardless of whether you did or were able to do it in THIS life or not - trust me, once you have passed on, you will have experienced it anyway, in a different way, and the emotions you are attaching to the thought of it now won't exist in the same way either. In other words, nothing you stated will matter because consciousness separated from the physical body experiences existence in a vastly different way than our feeble minds can ever perceive it to be in this physical form.

So really, you either won't know, or won't care... and you won't be alone... you will be one with it all. None of us are ever alone. Our ego separates us from each other and our surroundings. Once you die, the ego is gone. Only consciousness exists. I don't know if what I am saying makes sense to you, but I just want to emphasize that death is not what you think, so there is no reason to be afraid of those things you said.

I believe that this is what happens after we die and so do a lot of people.
 
Some great responses in this thread.

You are dead only once there is nothing left to remember you from your own point of view. Consciousness is everlasting and there is nothing outside of it. What happens beyond the death of the self will probably always be beyond human comprehension. So fear of death is fear of the ultimate unknown; and as others have said here, it's only when you stand before the absolute certainty of it that you will feel that fear in full, and realise you have never completely defeated it.

It makes me wonder about life before the knowledge of death. The moment it clicked that my life would end one day, I was five, and I still remember the terror. Sadly, most of us aren't able to remember what it was like to never have considered that this all might stop one day. It sounds eternal.
 
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