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i dont see whats so profound about psychedelics...

StoneHappyMonday said:
Thank you for asking. ;)

I think your thoughts (and I mean you Wes, and none of this is meant to be insulting in any way) and experiences are the product of a straight-mind. Someone who is attached to their intellect at the expense of other faculties of the mind (e.g intuition). Someone who has fooled themselves that their intellect is their (whole) mind. You probably have a tendency to pay attention to outward forms rather than inner contents and have a materialistic view of life. The only life-giving force you have recognized is blood cells, wondering in amazement at this physical thing you can recognize, label, see.

You recognize the pretty changing colours of psychedelia (outward forms) but fail to grasp the more profound inner dimension. You are missing out. LSD is really not about the colours. There is so much more.

I'm not knocking you. Hell, I actually agree about the weak-minded bit you mention. You are right, there definitely are some weak individuals who think they see God on their first acid experience (because they think that it what is expected). You cannot trust what everyone says about their experience of a very altered consciousness. To that end, your admission of no experience of profound psychedelic states can at least be held up to be honest and truthful as compared to some of the BS some come out with.

However, ultimately it is about using your mind in a different way. LSD et al do not automatically make anyone have deep experiences, peoples minds work in different ways, even on the same drugs. But if you want a tip.....try not to get so attached to the visual distortions and changing external realities on psychedelics. Tell your mind to STFU. And just let it flow.

Alternatively up the dose on any of the drugs mentioned in this thread, particularly DMT, Salvia or K-hole Ketamine and then try coming back and telling us that psychedelics aren't profound. ;)
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Great post! You should come 'round here more often.
 
The person who made this post never even had legit psychedelics

Your wasting your breath.

Of course if you eat mushrooms from the super market that some scam artist sold you, your won't have any kind of experience.

Man this entire post is a huge joke.

What a retard.

He never had real mushrooms, never had real LSD (LOL), never had any real anything.
 
lurkerguy said:
The person who made this post never even had legit psychedelics

Your wasting your breath.

Of course if you eat mushrooms from the super market that some scam artist sold you, your won't have any kind of experience.

Man this entire post is a huge joke.

What a retard.

He never had real mushrooms, never had real LSD (LOL), never had any real anything.
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How do you know for sure what hes had?
 
Just reading his post with common sense tells me he never had real mushrooms.
 
Or maybe you could read shm's post and understand that it maybe to do with the way he's approaching the trip and not the quality of stuff he's getting? We don't know for sure.
 
Wes, you say you are not spiritual, but you also say enlightenment is a real thing. Like EntheoDjinn, I am an atheist. Psychedelics have not done anything that led me to believe spiritual enlightenment is a real thing. You can't just flip a switch and be "Enlightened". What would that even mean?

There's nothing about thinking with your intellect instead of your intuition that makes a person focus on the surface appearance of things. It's just the opposite. People who use emotions and intuition because they don't know how to use logic and intellect go by how things appear on the surface...such as the superficial idea of spiritual enlightenment, when all a human being's mind is in the first place is a bunch of interconnected neurons.
 
demons said:
There's nothing about thinking with your intellect instead of your intuition that makes a person focus on the surface appearance of things. It's just the opposite. People who use emotions and intuition because they don't know how to use logic and intellect go by how things appear on the surface...such as the superficial idea of spiritual enlightenment, when all a human being's mind is in the first place is a bunch of interconnected neurons.
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Hey quick everyone, this person has discovered where the mind is! ;)

Needless to say, I completely disagree with you. For a start, people don't choose to use intuition "because they don't know how to use logic and intellect". There have been great scientific leaps, in computing and other areas, by people using their intuition - sometimes in conjunction with use of psychedelics. Intuition is not based on "things on the surface" - it is an inner feeling that directly contrasts with the use of logic and intellect based on sensory data. It is the sensory data that is the surface of things.
 
I guess we'll agree to disagree on that. I've never seen much value in intuition and always preferred facts and reason. But psychedelics have shown me I should be more respectful of intuition and emotions, so I try to be !

I do agree with you that intuition is an inner feeling contrasting with the use of logic and intellect based on sensory data. It's just that I've found logic to be a lot more reliable for reaching the correct conclusion than intuition.
 
Demons, I appreicate your thoughts. Its good to have opposing viewpoints on this board.

However, I think there's two confounding uses of the term intuition here. One intuits something about the surface appearance of an object. In reality (appearance vs. reality distinction) the object very well may not possess the intuited properties (think color here as a prime example).

The other use of intuition, has to do with deep and abiding feelings or principles a person may realize that can be applied to one's life to effect profound and meaningful changes. I believe in this conversation, the majority of us are thinking about this type of intuition as a mode of thinking which supercedes the usefulness of ratio-centric (logical) trains of thought.

We are dealing with our very own phenomenology, after all, one that is very complex (and who would think it becomes simpler under the influence of powerful serotonin agonists). There's no reason to suspect that we use anything close to a formal system of logic in our 'language of thought' (unless you are in the 1970s).

I do, however, place high value upon ratio-centric modes of thought during a psychedelic state of mind. For me at least, it has helped ground some of my wilder insights into the here and now (ie the physical world).
 
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thoughtsUnThought said:
if we're considering a drug something which alters one's thoughts or processes...then really anything can be considered a drug. since afterall vitamins and even water greatly alter our states of mind. it seems easier to look at these vitamins as catalysts for a healthy system, right?

well, drugs function in the same manner as vitamins: chemicals which slide into a slot in our neurons.

how many monks have attained enlightenment without any water or vitamins?

also, considering how resistance works....if one was to take a specific amount of psilocybin everyday, it will end up fairly undetectable mentally. and since psychedelics can help people to learn and function in a powerful manner, then maybe psychedelics are vitamins that we've been deprived of.

and also....in 1965 DMT was found in human blood, and in 1972 Julius Axelrod found DMT in brain tissue. so regardless of what catalyst agents we consume, we are made of psychedelics.
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I don't agree with you at all. How are we made of psychedelics? Just because brain tissue contains very small amounts of dmt does not mean it has a profound effect on behavior. If you took psychedelics everyday the negative would outweigh the positive in a very short amount of time. People have experimented just what you said about psilocybin and got burnt out on it very quickly. These chems cannot be said to be essential to life like water or basic nutrition.
 
I have read a handbook dealing with lsd psychotherapy in the 1950's. It states that one side effect that occasionally happens is the patient tries constantly to prove to himself that what he is thinking is caused only by the drug. This was then said to make it nearly impossible for that patient to grasp anything valuable from the experience, because he was so convinced that everything learned was "just a drug" induced thought.
 
^^^Thats interesting- a very expected byproduct of westernism. Thats where I fall down wehn I trip these days- I tell myself "oh your tripping its just the drug", which makes me feel even more insane for believeing what I've seen.

Out of curiousty, wesmdow, were you taking benzo's or opiates during any of you psychedelic epeditions- thats surely a awe dampener....
 
onething that comes to mind when I hear people say the type of stuff I see the thread starter speaking about is that you also cannot explain the value you get out of your enjoyment of amazing art, incredible music and hilarious humour. You will find that many people simple will not see the value in these things and it just cannot be explained to them. Psychadelics are no different. Its not yours, mine or there fault, just how she goes.
 
^
Very true. Music is simply music to some people, while to others its much much more.
Same with even something like sport, to some its merely a game, to others its much more then a game.
 
wesmdow said:
ok, ive waited a while to make this thread.

ive tried most of the common psychedelics: lsd, shrooms, dxm (i KNOW.. not technically a psych...), mdma, mda, and experienced amphetamine psychosis twice.

now, except for the 3 times i ate bad mushrooms and had an awful time, ive loved every trip.

...however, i dont see whats so profound or spiritual about these drugs. im of the opinion that true enlightenment cant possibly be attained through the use/abuse of chemicals... it just doesnt make sense that it could be that easy.

every trip ive had has been wonderful, opened my mind to new thoughts, and shed a new light on the world around me.

still tho, i hear people talking of achieving nirvana, or having spiritual epiphanies on mushrooms or acid, and it just sounds ridiculous. its a freakin drug. the effects are just another high; and while that does not diminish the value or significance of psychedelics, i still dont think its possible, or even reasonable to believe that one can ACTUALLY commune with god or a higher being or w/e through the use of a chemical of any sort.

dont get me wrong, im not dissing psychedelics (in fact, im growing to love them more than any other class of drugs), i just think that weak minded people seem to fool themselves into believing that they have achieved something amazing just by eating a drug.

i just think its a great high.

what are yalls thoughts on this?
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there has already been a lot of great feedback, but i just wanted to point out that as shulgin says everything he saw and thought "had been brought about by a fraction of a gram of a white solid, but that in no way whatsoever could it be argued that these memories had been contained within the white solid... I understood that our entire universe is contained in the mind and the spirit. We may choose not to find access to it, we may even deny its existence, but it is indeed there inside us, and there are chemicals that can catalyze its availability."

it isn't any chemical that is profound, it is us. they simply facilitate our access to a world of information and experiences that are difficult to reach without them.

so if psychedelics aren't as amazing as others have reported, look inward, not outward.
 
ok, i read this thread cover to cover twice, and ive got some stuff to say. :)

firstly: i HAVE tried real drugs, thank you. just because my experiences do not correlate with your own, does not mean i havent tried real psychedelics. the fact that you see this thread as a joke, lurkerguy, says a great deal about your... err... 'depth of perception' 8)

secondly, willow, yes i am addicted to valium and as such, every experience i have is quite dampened by it; i did go 2 days prior to my trip without taking anything, but even then i have such high levels of diazepam in my system that im SURE it had an effect on my trip. i really dont know how to get out of this one-- as i REALLY need the diazepam to function day-to-day, and a trip whilst w/ding would (i imagine) suck ASS.

thirdly im extremely 'unmaterialistic,' in the sense that i really dont care at all about material things. im usually caught up in my own thoughts and spend much of my days alone, thinking. my brain wont stfu.

fourth, as a visual artist, i cant HELP but be TOTALLY blown away with visuals. im always busy with thought, but being able to construct sculptures in the air and color them with my mind is just TOO MUCH FUN!!! while i know there is much potential for introspection whilst under the influence of psychs (this thread has helped a lot, thanks guys [most of you]), i really cant help but be consumed by the utter beauty of my altered state of visual perception.

sight is by FAR my favorite sense, and benzos dont (in my experiences, which are limited) seem to dampen that aspect too much.

ill also add that a few days after i made this post, i had an EXTREMELY powerful experience on salvia-- the second time ive attained true ego-loss. the first time, all was green, and thats it. there was no me, there was no anything, just green.

the second time, the most recent experience, everything was white. it was very similar to my first salvia 'trip,' i no longer existed. at all. my friends tell me it lasted a few minutes, but it could have been an eternity for all i know.

this is interesting and pertains to this thread because while i found it quite interesting, and i suppose even PROFOUND, i still saw it as 'just a high.' its difficult to explain, and im sure ill get better at it, as im rather in love with this class of drugs at this point.

i do understand what those whove mentioned being 'reborn' meant. coming out of the salvia trip, and back into the real world was quite an interesting experience.
 
whoever it was that was talkin shit on my comment pertaining to the synonomyousity of vitamins and psychedelics i'd like to ask.....

just how much of the psychedelics were these people taking that got burnt out in the studies you mentioned...? was it active doses?? i was picturing this working most efficiently with micrograms of psilocybin.

i have seen studies which showed replacement of adderall with around a quarter of a blotter of LSD, to great effect.
 
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