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I can't handle nor think profoundly on psychedelics, any help??

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Psylex

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Jan 23, 2012
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While Ganja makes me lucidly think enormously, and while i can handle dissociatives very well too (although the latter is averagely profound at this present time for me), every time i take psychedelics (i've done LSD several times and DOB once) : either i trip less than my mates for the same dosage or (for a bigger dosage) my subconsciousness seems to immensely fear this specific altered state of consciousness (as a psychosomatic example i vomited of fear during dob) even if my conscious self always knows that "everything is allright, etc.." and tries to insist on the fact that i should calm myself, etc... A strong psychedelic trip for me is like a huge weight of uneasiness pressing down on me.

Besides this, while a majority of people have their mind widely expanded thanks to psychedelics (i've really felt a friend of mine become more and more profound with lsd and some philosophical tools i had given him), i don't have a single interesting thought on psychedelics : i even have to force myself to think but it always results in nothing : no unleashment of new abstract thoughts spiraling down the flow of consciousness as normally predicted...

Maybe i should try to get used to psychedelics (erasing this instinctive fear) and have more conversations while tripping... i dunno.

I have yet to try mushrooms, DMT and mescaline and i don't personnaly believe these belong to the same category as LSD,DOB... because lsd/dob,etc... have a slight Deliriant compound to them no?

Even if we all have different types of consciousness (some can't stand cannabis, etc.. and i seem to react strangely to lsd), Any other advices on how to control the specific lsd familly?
 
Its very possible you are resisting the psychedelic expecience and are forcing it down. Maybe you should take lower doses that are less of an ego threat. I think you would do good with Mescaline, its very friendly and inviting to go deeper. If you feel overwhelming your defenses is the answer, you might try DMT.
 
I found 25i-nbome to get quite profound at the peak. there's very lucid feel to the drug so you might not resist the state so much
 
Yeah maybe my slightly sharpened sense of rationality (i like philosophy and mathematics) and perhaps therefore inhibited sense of intuition is automatically forcing the trip down.

For sure i already know that DMT is the King of all entheogens (maybe more than a drug, a religion) and Mescaline just behind and i can't wait to try both of them! A large dosage of DMT isn't subjective anymore it's an objective experience that brings everyone into the same hyperspace, so indeed i shouldn't have any troubles like i have with the LSD class.

Haha "25i-nbome" must be extremely rare to find... already rarer than 2CI itself XD
 
I disagree with your classification OP. DMT and Mescaline both are high quality entheogens that open up realms of experience that are unique to these drugs. You can't really say one is betterv than the other, because in the 12 hours of mescaline you can alter your life outlook in ways the 20 minutes of DMT can't touch, and DMT can send you an Elf to tell you your cat has kidney trouble you should take him to the vet for.
 
Holy shit you've just increased my fascination for self transforming fractal machine elves :O

I agree with you Asante, or maybe order theory doesn't hold for the best entheogens out there, them being all equally astonishing.
 
any psychedelic/dissociative compound can make you feel delirious at the right dosage and time ime but lsd(ergolines)/tryptamines/peas/nmda antagonist arent deleriants. most deleriants are muscarinic antagonist from what i gather and your usual lsd/mushrooms/dmt/mescaline are 5-ht2a antagonist. deleriants are alot more confusing/unpleasant from what i gather, i dont really feel the need to consume any of the stuff at the moment.

mescaline is also in the same class as dox compounds, there both phenethylamines.

try switching your compound out try something new change your setting, i have took alot of lsd and i get tired of it after a while same with any other compound i wear out really. also maybe try taking lower doses at first and work your way up slowly, if your getting put in a uncomfortable postion at times ime it could be a dose issue. also at times lsd can be pretty in your face and unforgiving ime it also has the most time dialation than any other compound i have experienced so far, it also lasts a good amount of time which will give you more time to think about things and get anxious, maybe try somthing with a shorter action imo like dmt or mushroom, they can be just as equally intense but they wont make you think through things for 12 hours at a time lossing sleep and what not, iv been up on alot of lsd thinking my ass off for 15 hours, with lsd ime you have to be completly commited for a good 24 hours or longer. with mushrooms and other 4- substituted tryptamines i can get going nicely within a hour and be basically sober with 5 hours depeneding on the dose.

as for easing the lsd experience you just gotta let go and let it run its course and also eat it when your in the best set/setting possible to you.
 
interesting thread :) There's a few things to consider. First i'd ask about your set & setting. Many people can't help but have the types of thoughts/processes you describe, but others may need a push in that direction. If you're hanging out with friends goofing off at one of their houses or something that is less likely to engender the types of things you're trying to achieve. Not that there's anything wrong with that setting, enjoyed it plenty of times myself ;) Perhaps alone at your place with some good music & perhaps some type of thought provoking movies or tv series could be advisable. I'm thinking of stuff along the lines of HD nature documentaries like Planet Earth etc or The Universe type shows about the unfathomably strange things in deep space. And in the movie realm something like Waking Life, or if you're into sci fi perhaps A Scanner Darkly, or really any sci fi movie that's aesthetically pleasing & analyzes deep issues (many do). Also the combination of live music & psychedelics is certainly a time honored tradition. If you're going to do that you have to make sure you're taking a dose you can handle around that many people & you'll also wanna make sure its a music event where the crowd will be amenable to that type of headspace. Think shpongle, phish, etc etc. Plenty of electronic music festivals this summer that would be good for that as well. Another good setting for inducing transcendental type states is just being in nature itself. A nice isolated camping area or park (that's not too crowded ;)) can be as excellent a venue as any. Also there's the matter of the particular substance. Different people prefer different substances. As you can see from the PD Index (linked in my signature) there is a huge variety of things available in this day & age, and certain substances work better for some people than they do others. I'd read through some of the big & dandy threads here as well as check out the vaults over at erowid (also linked in my sig). Hope that helps! And in the words of John Lennon: Turn off your mind, relax & float downstream
 
Try some MDMA, it's very good at melting away defenses.
Anyway, thinking is highly overrated, IMHO ;)
 
Cheers all of you guys for sure i'll try out all types of different settings and mind states, candyflipping is definitely on my list too ^^

Nonetheless i'm continuing this quest for a psychic diagnosis with one odd remark : a few days after having experienced this (automatically) anxious DOB trip (same overwhelming feeling as a previous strong LSD trip) , I was in a nice environment (forest with a cool view and mates, the opposite of when i was badtripping inside) snorting out a Speedball (coke, heroin), it was obviously pleasurable, then i started smoking a decent amount of cannabis and (as some of you must know) it brought back a mild DOB trip with the same EXACT paranoid feeling strong enough to overide the Speedball's effects (wtf) !!! And this is not linked to ganja at all because i'm a huge stoner and throughout that afternoon i still carried on blazing to bring back as much DOB as i could because i still like the comedown of LSD/DOB. This small anecdote pushes my diagnostic a bit closer to being "naturally paranoid" with this specific lsd/dob class of psychedelics just like the portion of people who can't smoke weed (paranoid). I'm still not 100% convinced with this hypothesis (if it even exists?) and will carry on trying to tame LSD as if it were only my defenses.

As i said before, at the moment, i'm glad to think i'm probably (with small experience yet) much more comfortable with the tryptamine class than with that lsd/dob class..
 
Learning to let go and surrendering to something you cannot really understand is the essence if you ask me. It's not as dramatic a problem as you describe it to be, but when it all boils down to it - such as when I am intentionally meditating towards an ego-death state, the same exact fear is what I must face. It can come in different appearances - outspoken doubts that are like a lock prohibiting the process to proceed...
Basically it's the sense of self we all have, unconsciously screaming for it's survival, I think. I have had a blockage and failure once on acid when I meditated swiftly towards ego-death (it is catalyzed so so much), and also plenty of unsollicited states of panic on mushroom that were about the same exact battle - at least in essence.
When I felt like I was hanging on by the very last shred/thread connecting the sense of me lying/sitting there and existing, doing what I do to the world or reality as it poured in... a doubt crept in at the last second. I was at that point experienced with LSD and all the warping of reality around me didn't bother me. That least thread bothered me.
Because, I told myself, if I were to let go of that last thread... there was no telling what would happen to me, who would make sure I would be protected for sheer survival. There was nothing in my home that indicated I needed protection, but it did not matter. It was like I suddenly convinced myself there may be a "rulebook" that could be called causality that I was not aware of because I have no insight into the true workings of the world, the blueprint. What if the rules of causality said that if I would let go of my last thread of sense of self, I would be an empty shell, unpossessed and vulnerable to become possessed by whatever "thing" and it may allow me to throw myself out of a window.
Not that I could thing of the slightest reason why it could happen, I could also not convince myself it was impossible that something could in fact befall me and let me be hurt in an unforeseen way.

What took me an hour after this aborted ego-death, which was very harsh and jarring to initiate and abort I can tell you!! But: what I realized was the answer to what I was lacking was: trust. Or call it faith, but not any religion-bound type. Just a leap of faith that would extend my belief to be okay beyond being present and aware to control myself and protect myself. I would have to say bye without knowing when I would be back. I have been 'absent' out of myself for hours before on multiple occasions. But more typically with mushrooms where I would go kicking and screaming and there was no option of bugging out at the last second.

In fact, the most complete ego annihilation I have ever had, which was VERY much like the climax of the movie The Fountain (at one point there is a rip of everything and a small dot of light in a vast space of black void), and it flooded over me when I decided that the intensity and nature of what the mushroom effects were doing to me were so hellish that I would accept death as a possible outcome of surrender. I accepted everything and let go.
I will not go into what I experienced next.

LSD is so very different: I have always been able to think-talk my way out of predicaments - at least there was virtually never the kicking and screaming or the feeling of opting death over a current state (!).
So the mercy of LSD to allow that process to be followed *that* consciously that far? At first I considered it an ally for my rationality to be able to help negotiate my mindspace. But when it comes to controlling the release of control. Command relieving itself of command... that is incredibly difficult. It's also like trying to pull the rug away from underneath oneself while jumping, hoping that what is under the rug will be benign.

You may remember the saying also mentioned in The Matrix about being shown a door but you yourself being the one to have to go through it.

I have come to see a lot of doors, but the true maturity of someone whether there are many doors or few... is having the guts to step over the threshold. Or throw yourself over if necessary.

I hope you can reflect on your own experiences and superimposing my difficulties to try and find this same pattern. It can disguise itself to not appear as lucidly, but the process may still work in a same way. Think about these things some more, and also try to feel/sense in your gut what I am saying since that is what will have to start cooperating better. If your gut feeling becomes more okay and aligned with all of this happening is vital (which can be practised by meditation: a natural and gentle way of treading what I think is quite parallel to the ego-dissolution and reintegration process or at least part of it).

While I am telling you this, I know this is one of the major problems for me in life: to learn to trust on feeling and not having to understand everything in order to try and control a situation and the outcome.
 
This could be a good thing. Maybe your bullshit filter is more intact than the average psychonaut. While some people do get profound revelations (usually of a personal nature) while on psychedelics, most "profound thinking" turns out to be not so profound after all when evaluated sober.

The only revelations I've ever experienced on psyches were on psilocybin and in regards to my relationships with family and friends. I've never received any grand thoughts about life or the universe in general that weren't completely BS, and never found LSD or phenethylamines to be particularly profound anyway.

Remember, these compounds don't contain any innate knowledge, they only elucidate thoughts that already lie dormant in your brain. If you're not having fun on psyches, don't feel like you're missing out on anything.
 
Trancendence > (btw i love your name haha, it's like the purpose of my life) Actually i really jealously thought i was missing out on something, especially when knowing that some people give LSD big entheogen qualities!! Now, i'm much more reassured that DMT, Mescaline, and Ketamine-holes may well be my comfortable real psychonautic research domaine for the future (i'll wait & see basically). I'm still willing to try to tame LSD and it's equivalents but as you said, it might be more hedonistic rather than spiritual.

Solipsis > Nice logistical intel, next time i take Lsd/dob,etc.. i'll try to completly abandon my self/ego and naturally follow the course of trip.

hyperobjects > Maybe it's me... either i've got genes triggering a specific paranoia ( when i normally ain't a badtripper) for this specific group of substances... or it might be psychological :my subconscious is perhaps reminding me of a previous depression.. but my relationship with lsd is pretty odd at the moment (friends saw i was missing out, etc)
 
A lot of people aren't fond at all of the DOx in general, and especially DOB (While DOM and DOC seem comparatively well tolerated). As for advice, I'd say you can't force it, and your expectations are keeping you down. You need to work on enjoying the experience, and the feelings it provokes, for itself. Trying to force things is just going to ruin it for you and may invoke pointless negative emotions.

SO learn to appreciate laughing, look at the stars or some plants, listen to music, and just do what comes natural. Always keep in mind that it's a drug you're doing to have a good a time, or to induce whatever effects you are experiencing. What you get IS the point, and any profundity will arise of its own accord. Psychedelia isn't a race to some mystic goal, and you cannot hoard wisdom like treasure.
 
^I didn't say it was only hedonistic, did I? Just that you need to become comfortable with the experience itself, because chances are, the thing that's stopping you from having the deeper experiences you want is you. Letting go of expectations, and learning to take what comes your way is important with tripping. Learn to walk before you run, etc. etc.

I have yet to try mushrooms, DMT and mescaline and i don't personnaly believe these belong to the same category as LSD,DOB... because lsd/dob,etc... have a slight Deliriant compound to them no?
Click to expand...

It doesn't work that way, no. Try to read pihkal and tihkal to get a better feel for structures. Those ones you mentioned as not having tried are definitely ones to look into though! You may react much better to them.

Good luck.
 
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