CoastTwoCoast
Bluelighter
I'm repeating what others said, but ORDER KRATOM!!! It was a life saver for me when getting of Tram. It made it so easy. No need to go to the ER or see a doctor, just order Kratom and taper off.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids I can't get off tramadol, withdrawals make me suicidal
- Thread starter crisler
- Start date
I wish you could take one day in my shoes to see whether tramadol withdrawals are real or not. What does that even mean? How do you know she "never once found it addictive"? Does that mean she was prescribed them as needed and she took two 50mg pills 4 days out of the week, for 3 weeks? "Are you sure your on on about the right medication." Im pretty sure I know which medication I have been taking for more than half a year. Sorry for sounding like a dick I do not mean to come off that way at all it just pains me when people don't know what they're talking about.
Thanks everyone who has been replying I got a chance to read your messages on my phone last night. I just wanted to update this morning while I can, Im halfway through this on my own. I just fear going to the er so much but Im not alone being at a good friends house for these two days is making me feel better theres someone here for me. Being alone in a house during withdrawals is awful if not downright dark. I will order some Bali kratom right quick and Im going to go to the head shop and se if they have any there so i can have some in the mean time. Ill update how the kratom goes. Sorry to keep one thread alive not doing it on purpose. You guys have been really helpful Bluelight. Love you all
CoastTwoCoast
Bluelighter
Good for you! Order Bali Kratom powder and you can put them in pills. I usually buy a bag of 00 pills and fill them with Kratom on my own. You'll have to test and see how much you need, but it will eliminate your withdrawals guaranteed.
Anyone who says Tramadol is not addictive, has no idea what the hell they are talking about. It is addictive and the withdrawals are very real. Scary.
Anyone who says Tramadol is not addictive, has no idea what the hell they are talking about. It is addictive and the withdrawals are very real. Scary.
Snake_Eyes
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 1,522
You should order the 000 instead...easier to fill and hold so much more. If it was me I wouldn't directly switch over from tramadol to kratom, I would add in the kratom then start fazing out the tramadol first so you aren't hit by c/t snri withdrawal. Once the tramadol is more or less tapered off then I would start tapering off the kratom.
CoastTwoCoast
Bluelighter
Exactly, the Kratom is just used to ease the withdrawals. I don't mean completely switch to Kratom only. I mean use it to taper so you don't suffer. I always try to spread the word to people to use kratom when they are suffering from Tram withdrawals. It's truly a blessing.
I can definitely see why other members are recommending kratom, which probably is a very good idea since it has that added boost of energy akin to the SNRI effects of Tramadol.
Just one question for the same people who are recommending kratom:
Don't you think that by substituting with kratom, which happens to hit some of the same receptors as tramadol (dose dependent, of course) while wonderful due to a boost in energy, serotonin & norepinephrine, in a way it is just as hard to come off from since it acts like a different version of tramadol (so to speak) with it affecting some of the same receptors, like a double edged sword!?
In retrospect I take back the methadone comment! Although it does have great anti depressant & anti craving proprieties, it will be harder to come off from methadone especially considering the nature of the relatively small habit, despite the long duration of usage. Some people take anti depressant for much longer without even needing/benefitting from them.
Before you say goodbye to antidepressants, you may want to look at 2 very specific & atypical antidepressants that I too am considering!
1. Mirtazapine (aka Remeron & Avanza) - "effects are mostly mediated through downstream modulation of the endogenous opioid system, of which in the case of mirtazapine the μ opioid and κ3 opioid receptors are mainly involved." source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirtazapine
2. Tianeptine (aka Stablon & Coaxil) - "Tianeptine has antidepressant and anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) properties with a relative lack of sedative, anticholinergic and cardiovascular adverse effects"! further saying that "Recent results indicate possible anticonvulsant (anti-seizure) and analgesic (painkilling) activity of tianeptine via immediate or downstream modulation of adenosine A1 receptors (as the effects could be experimentally blocked by antagonists of this receptor)"
Furthermore and perhaps most importantly:
"Tianeptine is a low-affinity full agonist at the μ-opioid and δ-opioid receptors with negligible effect at the κ-opioid receptors. μ-Opioid agonists typically induce euphoria, and in accordance, tianeptine does so at high doses well above the normal therapeutic range." source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
If you do want to go with an opioid please at least consider codeine and whether or not it is feasible for you to do use codeine since even in countries that have it OTC like here in Canada (8mg codeine/15mg caffeine with either tylenol or aspirin). Doing extractions results in proportions of perfectly good codeine 'contaminated' by caffeine in a ratio of 1:2 respectively. In Europe codamol contains only a slightly better ratio with (8mg codeine/12.5mg caffeine/500mg Tylenol). If you are able to get the 15mg - 30mg pills which are often given for coughing in cases where taking a bottle of Hycodan isn't very practical - it may spill in a lady's purse having to carry the bottle at work and just as easily if taken and placed inside a backpack for 8hrs a day, or in general, just from moving it from place to place! Other times it is given for chronic diarrhea that doesn't respond to Imodium or antacids.
Or maybe you can get some Tylenol 4s or Tylenol 3s! Those should be ideal, more or less the Tylenol 3's however having a ceiling dose of 400mg codeine = 40mg morphine per day also helps ensure that you don't go overboard with using too much as doses over 400mg release a lot of histamines and the effects just stretch but don't get stronger though it feels like it due to that incredibly powerful histamine rush, which can happen in small doses but I'm talking about 800mg+ doses.
The best, of course, are the easily crushable with your teeth, CodeineContin starting at 50mg and topping at 200mg.
The reason I say go with codeine is because it is the weakest *opiate*, is a partial agonist but you aren't looking to get high rather to come off comfortably. Clonazepam to lower the seizure threshold wouldn't be bad either...any benzo but clonazepam also has anti spasm properties, reason I mentioned it!
I've had kratom in the past both with mild tolerance to coming off heroin or using it when the dopeman wasn't answering.
It had me nodding with a mild tolerance in doses of about 14g, and 20g would have me floored, even though I could feel even 7g-8g (never took any less). Don't know if your allowed souring on botanicals but since I don't see anybody mentioning them I think its not allowed. I will say that I was able to locate a very reputable and extremely reliable source, (and they've only grown in popularity since) conveniently located in Montreal which is just a province away from me so very quick delivery time.
In all instances I ordered leaf! Powdered leaf! Once I had an enhanced extract but it wasn't worth the money in my opinion, though I got it when I was using dope and my purpose wasn't to get high but to get me through the times I couldn't reach the dealer. Also I wouldn't buy more dope than I needed, like I never bought a ball (3.5g) because I would use it quicker I thought, though in retrospect I probably wouldn't have been any worse off b/c I got to 1g (10 points) a day chasing on foil.
When you do come off of kratom you will notice the lack of energy again, probably not as severe as with tramadol though! Ask yourself though is it easier to withdraw from codeine or from kratom? Don't get fooled with codeine either. When I had access to CodeineContin I got about 75-80 100mg pure codeine pills that didn't even need crushing, simply splitting them in 2 or 4 pieces would work and instant release. After 2-3 weeks it was still fun but I was ranging about 240mg-300mg a dose with 3-4 doses a day. In the last week I ended up receiving poppy pods and mixed whatever left I had of the codeine with the beautiful contents of powdered poppy pods (skipping the tea, eating the finely crushed powder chased with water) which honestly, resulted in some of the most euphoric and sedating experiences I've had the pleasure of trying...up there with morphine but with an extra energy from the pods (stems in particular)!
Just one question for the same people who are recommending kratom:
Don't you think that by substituting with kratom, which happens to hit some of the same receptors as tramadol (dose dependent, of course) while wonderful due to a boost in energy, serotonin & norepinephrine, in a way it is just as hard to come off from since it acts like a different version of tramadol (so to speak) with it affecting some of the same receptors, like a double edged sword!?
In retrospect I take back the methadone comment! Although it does have great anti depressant & anti craving proprieties, it will be harder to come off from methadone especially considering the nature of the relatively small habit, despite the long duration of usage. Some people take anti depressant for much longer without even needing/benefitting from them.
Before you say goodbye to antidepressants, you may want to look at 2 very specific & atypical antidepressants that I too am considering!
1. Mirtazapine (aka Remeron & Avanza) - "effects are mostly mediated through downstream modulation of the endogenous opioid system, of which in the case of mirtazapine the μ opioid and κ3 opioid receptors are mainly involved." source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirtazapine
2. Tianeptine (aka Stablon & Coaxil) - "Tianeptine has antidepressant and anxiolytic (anti-anxiety) properties with a relative lack of sedative, anticholinergic and cardiovascular adverse effects"! further saying that "Recent results indicate possible anticonvulsant (anti-seizure) and analgesic (painkilling) activity of tianeptine via immediate or downstream modulation of adenosine A1 receptors (as the effects could be experimentally blocked by antagonists of this receptor)"
Furthermore and perhaps most importantly:
"Tianeptine is a low-affinity full agonist at the μ-opioid and δ-opioid receptors with negligible effect at the κ-opioid receptors. μ-Opioid agonists typically induce euphoria, and in accordance, tianeptine does so at high doses well above the normal therapeutic range." source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
If you do want to go with an opioid please at least consider codeine and whether or not it is feasible for you to do use codeine since even in countries that have it OTC like here in Canada (8mg codeine/15mg caffeine with either tylenol or aspirin). Doing extractions results in proportions of perfectly good codeine 'contaminated' by caffeine in a ratio of 1:2 respectively. In Europe codamol contains only a slightly better ratio with (8mg codeine/12.5mg caffeine/500mg Tylenol). If you are able to get the 15mg - 30mg pills which are often given for coughing in cases where taking a bottle of Hycodan isn't very practical - it may spill in a lady's purse having to carry the bottle at work and just as easily if taken and placed inside a backpack for 8hrs a day, or in general, just from moving it from place to place! Other times it is given for chronic diarrhea that doesn't respond to Imodium or antacids.
Or maybe you can get some Tylenol 4s or Tylenol 3s! Those should be ideal, more or less the Tylenol 3's however having a ceiling dose of 400mg codeine = 40mg morphine per day also helps ensure that you don't go overboard with using too much as doses over 400mg release a lot of histamines and the effects just stretch but don't get stronger though it feels like it due to that incredibly powerful histamine rush, which can happen in small doses but I'm talking about 800mg+ doses.
The best, of course, are the easily crushable with your teeth, CodeineContin starting at 50mg and topping at 200mg.
The reason I say go with codeine is because it is the weakest *opiate*, is a partial agonist but you aren't looking to get high rather to come off comfortably. Clonazepam to lower the seizure threshold wouldn't be bad either...any benzo but clonazepam also has anti spasm properties, reason I mentioned it!
I've had kratom in the past both with mild tolerance to coming off heroin or using it when the dopeman wasn't answering.
It had me nodding with a mild tolerance in doses of about 14g, and 20g would have me floored, even though I could feel even 7g-8g (never took any less). Don't know if your allowed souring on botanicals but since I don't see anybody mentioning them I think its not allowed. I will say that I was able to locate a very reputable and extremely reliable source, (and they've only grown in popularity since) conveniently located in Montreal which is just a province away from me so very quick delivery time.
In all instances I ordered leaf! Powdered leaf! Once I had an enhanced extract but it wasn't worth the money in my opinion, though I got it when I was using dope and my purpose wasn't to get high but to get me through the times I couldn't reach the dealer. Also I wouldn't buy more dope than I needed, like I never bought a ball (3.5g) because I would use it quicker I thought, though in retrospect I probably wouldn't have been any worse off b/c I got to 1g (10 points) a day chasing on foil.
When you do come off of kratom you will notice the lack of energy again, probably not as severe as with tramadol though! Ask yourself though is it easier to withdraw from codeine or from kratom? Don't get fooled with codeine either. When I had access to CodeineContin I got about 75-80 100mg pure codeine pills that didn't even need crushing, simply splitting them in 2 or 4 pieces would work and instant release. After 2-3 weeks it was still fun but I was ranging about 240mg-300mg a dose with 3-4 doses a day. In the last week I ended up receiving poppy pods and mixed whatever left I had of the codeine with the beautiful contents of powdered poppy pods (skipping the tea, eating the finely crushed powder chased with water) which honestly, resulted in some of the most euphoric and sedating experiences I've had the pleasure of trying...up there with morphine but with an extra energy from the pods (stems in particular)!
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Slow_Mobius
Bluelight Crew
Tramadol has serotonergic activity which is the worst part of withdrawal. Kratom is much easier to come off of at reasonable doses, and to my knowledge, it doesn't have significant serotonergic activity. It's nothing like using it to taper from using a strong opioid like heroin. It would be using it as a temporary comfort med.
Exactly!
To answer Mule's question- No, Kratom is much more benign and readily available, making it quite the miracle for this type of WD.
The drug Tianeptine Mule mentioned, however, is not. It has a 1 hour half life and is not significantly acting at serotonin.
Kratom has a ~4.5 hr duration of action and is much cleaner than the dirty Tianeptine. This could be due to the metabolites of Tianeptine adding up, since there half-lives are 9-15 hours and Tianeptine is only ~1 hr, just a theory, likely false.
Thirdly, u say codeine if you don't want to use an opiate.. Kind of funny, and definitely not available without prescription in the U.S.. Also, 10-30% of your Codeine dose converts to morphine in your body.
Kratom is so benign and great for withdrawal, with no real potential for abuse, but with many great medical benefits. Kratom is a miracle herb, praise be to Odin.
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ErgicMergic
Bluelighter
I'd go so far to say that it is actually more addictive than other weak opioids due to its unique serotonergic effect (the straight up release of it rather than purely reuptake) not shared by most antidepressants nor opioids.
I wonder why no one talked about St-Johns wort... It can be found in any pharma store. You could use this with low codeine dose and tapper off both. Basically this plant is a reuptake inhibitor of everything, including GABA to help with anxiety, serotonin to help with conscious balance and alot more. Adding codeine would allow you to not feel WD from Opiate effect as long as you take the right dose and tapper off codeine first and then tapper off the plant. Then you will be sober and will be able to take a decision that would not be based on physiological impulses.
For suicidal thoughts, magic mushrooms can help with that, agreed that in the trip you might have a moment where you want to do it so keep away from your reach everything that can help you kill yourself, but its REALLY rare that people experiment this kind of thoughts on shrooms, usually psilocin makes you see your life objectively and that is the way to get rid of thoughts of ending your life. Mushroom got rid of my once a day suicidal thoughts, now I have told myslef (on LSD) that nothing ever could make me end my life, I will always seek a solution as there is always one! I learned that there is always a solution other than being dead, its like a math problem but really complex, you just need to analyze yourself and the world objectively and see the small breach that will lead you to complete peace of mind. Every1 can reach that breach, some need help for it and mushrooms are awsome for it, it was the only thing that saved my life. Without it i'd be dead at 15. I am 19 now and am planning on studying pure chemistry and become what I want to be. You can reach your goal too. Every problem has a solution, its pure logic.