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Opioids How would someone go about dosing an opiate 10k x more potent than morphine?

The only way to safely dose opioids of this extreme potency is with an incredibly sensitive microgram (or even smaller) scale. Eyeballing is not sufficient for such strong drugs unless you have a death wish, not that I'm assuming you just have some laying around. The line between therapeutic and dead is thin as it can be in humans with these kind of compounds. Hell, etorphine, which is "only" 1,000-3,000x the strength of morphine has to be prepared with a shot of Narcan when used for veterinary use because it can seep through human skin if it leaks and is pretty immediately fatal. Given that the drug in question is a further 10x stronger than etorphine, eyeballing a small amount and putting it even in a gallon of water could easily end badly with a single sip, if the dose has not been carefully measured with actual scientific instruments.
 
The only way to safely dose opioids of this extreme potency is with an incredibly sensitive microgram (or even smaller) scale. Eyeballing is not sufficient for such strong drugs unless you have a death wish, not that I'm assuming you just have some laying around. The line between therapeutic and dead is thin as it can be in humans with these kind of compounds. Hell, etorphine, which is "only" 1,000-3,000x the strength of morphine has to be prepared with a shot of Narcan when used for veterinary use because it can seep through human skin if it leaks and is pretty immediately fatal. Given that the drug in question is a further 10x stronger than etorphine, eyeballing a small amount and putting it even in a gallon of water could easily end badly with a single sip, if the dose has not been carefully measured with actual scientific instruments.

What exactly WOULD a dose be ? In micrograms (if that information is even availible)

And would this work for measurement? http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/mathematics/microgram_balance/balance.html
 
I'm not going to make a shoot-from-the-hip-guess on what weight a microgram-sized dose of an incredibly potent opioid should be. That's not any safer than refraining from doing so.

No, I wouldn't even use that scale to dose fentanyl. It needs to be digital.

This is a drug that's clearly not meant for use in humans. Some of the very potent opioids are used in tiny doses for human consumption-- there's one very strong opioid used in China as a maintenance medicine (dihydroetorphine, maybe?)-- but I'd hazard that there's a reason no human trials have ever been performed using this drug.
 
I'm not going to make a shoot-from-the-hip-guess on what weight a microgram-sized dose of an incredibly potent opioid should be. That's not any safer than refraining from doing so.

No, I wouldn't even use that scale to dose fentanyl. It needs to be digital.

This is a drug that's clearly not meant for use in humans. Some of the very potent opioids are used in tiny doses for human consumption-- there's one very strong opioid used in China as a maintenance medicine (dihydroetorphine, maybe?)-- but I'd hazard that there's a reason no human trials have ever been performed using this drug.

ASIDE from overdose / death - what are the other risks one runs?


Someone said

"one problem is nobody knows about its effects or if its made legit. Some guy a while ago tried to synthesize a meperidine(Demerol) analog and ended up producing an impure product that gave him and other heroin users instant parkinsons. Some food for thought"
 
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I'm not going to make a shoot-from-the-hip-guess on what weight a microgram-sized dose of an incredibly potent opioid should be. That's not any safer than refraining from doing so.

No, I wouldn't even use that scale to dose fentanyl. It needs to be digital.

This is a drug that's clearly not meant for use in humans. Some of the very potent opioids are used in tiny doses for human consumption-- there's one very strong opioid used in China as a maintenance medicine (dihydroetorphine, maybe?)-- but I'd hazard that there's a reason no human trials have ever been performed using this drug.

Also if i were to take say a .1 gram of the substance, and continue to dilute it and dilute it - it would be just as accurate form of measurement as a microgram scale right? i mean technically... assuming you did the math right (oh god wouldnt that be a bad day if you forgot to carry the damn decimal, death by math? idk - stay in school kids)

by the way i do not even have the substance in question - this is all purely hypothetical for my curiosity.


Lets say you put a fraction of a bit on a tip of a knife, put it in a gallon of water. Take a spoonfull of that and put it in another gallon of water. Then simply dip your TONGUE in that water. Is there ANY chance of OD at that point?

oh god though.. if its not soluble...
 
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10,000x more potent than morphine in a binding assay doesn't necessarily mean 10,000x more potent by weight as a drug when administered by whatever route.

The classic way of handling high potency compounds like this is weighing out a known amount with an accurate scale (milligram scale is probably fine) & dilute it into a large but measured about of water with preservatives in it (e.g. bacteriostatic water).

Measuring out "an incredibly small amount on the tip of a knife" is not really a useful amount. It could be a few micrograms, a few milligrams, to almost a gram, - depending on the size of the knife, the density of the powder, and how "high" the pile is. You really must get a scale that is accurate to weigh small amounts.

You would also probably have the foresight to have it as a water soluble salt before doing all this. Or dissolve it in a small amount of warm citric acid solution & dilute that down.

Generally drugs with high affinity for opioid receptors are not used even by doctors 'cause the very high affinity makes it impossible to use naloxone as an antidote.
 
Just go shoot some heroin... Why bother with all this fucking nonsense?
 
It's all tolerance, people who have been abusing opiates for a long period of time, will need something stronger, every so often. My experience is perfect for this topic.

I started using opiates at the age of 17, I'm 25 now, so that's 8+ years of Opiate tolerance. For the first 2 years, I was taking Hydrocodone Orally doses ranging from 80mg-120mg/daily. Hydro wasn't doing the job anymore, I had to take 150mg of it to feel my desired effects, and taking all that Tylenol could've easily killed me. I will never CWE my pills, for 2 reasons, takes too long, and losing some hydrocodone, So, I switched to OXYCODONE, that came in OC form or ROXY form without APAP, but the problem was, I stopped using Hydrocodone for 5-6 months COLD TURKEY, it was the toughest part of my life, but I got over the hump. My tolerance NEVER went down, I needed 60-80mg of Oxycodone per dose to get my desired effects. That's the problem with opiates, tolerance to them is a mother fucker, never goes down IME, so I was taking oxycodone for 3+ years, after they got too expensive, I tried to quit oxy cold turkey, I went 9 days in of HELL, and after those 9 days, I was feeling WORSE. I was like WTF, because with Hydrocodone I started to feel a little normal after just 5 days. So im like fuck this its never going away, that's when I started to smoke HEROIN, chasing the dragon for over a year, that's 6 years of Hardcore Narcotic abuse, the Heroin W/d was the only one I wanted to DIE on, I was sweating like I just got out the shower, I was puking on a empty stomach, some yellow acid type shit that was more bitter than Xanax pills, I was in extreme pain, RLS, I was literally crawling on my knees, my family saw me and rushed me to the hospital, I commited to them that I was on addict and need help, before we went, so I go in the ER and they put me in a room in less than 30 mins, because they saw how much pain I was in, seeing me puke out POISON, sweating like I just got out the shower, I was nearly about to DIE from dehydration. So they immiedatley put me on IV, started with just water so I don't dehydrate, the doctor came in and saw me in less than 15 mins cuz I was yelling, crying in pain, I didn't lie to the nurses nor doctors why im here, they said this is the only time we can help you with dope sickness, so they gave me meds to calm me down, all IV, Morphine, Ativan, and Promethazine. I finally stopped shaking, and could talk right, I was still in w/d but minor, because I wasn't dosed with enough morphine, obviously. The doctor told me and my parents, the only way to save yourself, is 2 options, REHAB, or MMT. We couldn't afford rehab. So my parents rushed me to a MMT clinic, and here I am today, 2 1/2 years later, still on methadone.

So that's nearly 9 years of using opiates, almost nothing will over power methadone. That's why tolerance is a bitch.

But I thank first and for most, god, and then methadone, because 'done SAVED my life.

Without methadone, I guarantee you I wouldn't be alive today.
 
It's all tolerance, people who have been abusing opiates for a long period of time, will need something stronger, every so often. My experience is perfect for this topic.

I started using opiates at the age of 17, I'm 25 now, so that's 8+ years of Opiate tolerance. For the first 2 years, I was taking Hydrocodone Orally doses ranging from 80mg-120mg/daily. Hydro wasn't doing the job anymore, I had to take 150mg of it to feel my desired effects, and taking all that Tylenol could've easily killed me. I will never CWE my pills, for 2 reasons, takes too long, and losing some hydrocodone, So, I switched to OXYCODONE, that came in OC form or ROXY form without APAP, but the problem was, I stopped using Hydrocodone for 5-6 months COLD TURKEY, it was the toughest part of my life, but I got over the hump. My tolerance NEVER went down, I needed 60-80mg of Oxycodone per dose to get my desired effects. That's the problem with opiates, tolerance to them is a mother fucker, never goes down IME, so I was taking oxycodone for 3+ years, after they got too expensive, I tried to quit oxy cold turkey, I went 9 days in of HELL, and after those 9 days, I was feeling WORSE. I was like WTF, because with Hydrocodone I started to feel a little normal after just 5 days. So im like fuck this its never going away, that's when I started to smoke HEROIN, chasing the dragon for over a year, that's 6 years of Hardcore Narcotic abuse, the Heroin W/d was the only one I wanted to DIE on, I was sweating like I just got out the shower, I was puking on a empty stomach, some yellow acid type shit that was more bitter than Xanax pills, I was in extreme pain, RLS, I was literally crawling on my knees, my family saw me and rushed me to the hospital, I commited to them that I was on addict and need help, before we went, so I go in the ER and they put me in a room in less than 30 mins, because they saw how much pain I was in, seeing me puke out POISON, sweating like I just got out the shower, I was nearly about to DIE from dehydration. So they immiedatley put me on IV, started with just water so I don't dehydrate, the doctor came in and saw me in less than 15 mins cuz I was yelling, crying in pain, I didn't lie to the nurses nor doctors why im here, they said this is the only time we can help you with dope sickness, so they gave me meds to calm me down, all IV, Morphine, Ativan, and Promethazine. I finally stopped shaking, and could talk right, I was still in w/d but minor, because I wasn't dosed with enough morphine, obviously. The doctor told me and my parents, the only way to save yourself, is 2 options, REHAB, or MMT. We couldn't afford rehab. So my parents rushed me to a MMT clinic, and here I am today, 2 1/2 years later, still on methadone.

So that's nearly 9 years of using opiates, almost nothing will over power methadone. That's why tolerance is a bitch.

But I thank first and for most, god, and then methadone, because 'done SAVED my life.

Without methadone, I guarantee you I wouldn't be alive today.

how the fuck do you get off the methadone though...
 
It's all tolerance, people who have been abusing opiates for a long period of time, will need something stronger, every so often. My experience is perfect for this topic.

I started using opiates at the age of 17, I'm 25 now, so that's 8+ years of Opiate tolerance. For the first 2 years, I was taking Hydrocodone Orally doses ranging from 80mg-120mg/daily. Hydro wasn't doing the job anymore, I had to take 150mg of it to feel my desired effects, and taking all that Tylenol could've easily killed me. I will never CWE my pills, for 2 reasons, takes too long, and losing some hydrocodone, So, I switched to OXYCODONE, that came in OC form or ROXY form without APAP, but the problem was, I stopped using Hydrocodone for 5-6 months COLD TURKEY, it was the toughest part of my life, but I got over the hump. My tolerance NEVER went down, I needed 60-80mg of Oxycodone per dose to get my desired effects. That's the problem with opiates, tolerance to them is a mother fucker, never goes down IME, so I was taking oxycodone for 3+ years, after they got too expensive, I tried to quit oxy cold turkey, I went 9 days in of HELL, and after those 9 days, I was feeling WORSE. I was like WTF, because with Hydrocodone I started to feel a little normal after just 5 days. So im like fuck this its never going away, that's when I started to smoke HEROIN, chasing the dragon for over a year, that's 6 years of Hardcore Narcotic abuse, the Heroin W/d was the only one I wanted to DIE on, I was sweating like I just got out the shower, I was puking on a empty stomach, some yellow acid type shit that was more bitter than Xanax pills, I was in extreme pain, RLS, I was literally crawling on my knees, my family saw me and rushed me to the hospital, I commited to them that I was on addict and need help, before we went, so I go in the ER and they put me in a room in less than 30 mins, because they saw how much pain I was in, seeing me puke out POISON, sweating like I just got out the shower, I was nearly about to DIE from dehydration. So they immiedatley put me on IV, started with just water so I don't dehydrate, the doctor came in and saw me in less than 15 mins cuz I was yelling, crying in pain, I didn't lie to the nurses nor doctors why im here, they said this is the only time we can help you with dope sickness, so they gave me meds to calm me down, all IV, Morphine, Ativan, and Promethazine. I finally stopped shaking, and could talk right, I was still in w/d but minor, because I wasn't dosed with enough morphine, obviously. The doctor told me and my parents, the only way to save yourself, is 2 options, REHAB, or MMT. We couldn't afford rehab. So my parents rushed me to a MMT clinic, and here I am today, 2 1/2 years later, still on methadone.

So that's nearly 9 years of using opiates, almost nothing will over power methadone. That's why tolerance is a bitch.

But I thank first and for most, god, and then methadone, because 'done SAVED my life.

Without methadone, I guarantee you I wouldn't be alive today.

Woah there, you might be all hardcore having chased that dragon and whatnot but I guarantee you, if you took a fraction of a speckle of a compound this potent, you're gonna fucking die. Not to downplay the average opiate addict experience, but this shit ain't methadone. Not even close. Comparing it to any of that on a public forum is dangerous as this should be handled with the utmost care. I don't think it should be handled at all if you don't have access to a lab.

Op, that scale is nottt kosher. You should use something digital. And professional. Be fucking careful man.
 
While I am very doubtful that sources that offer compounds like W-18 are legit, I would also say that nobody in his right mind should mess with opioids this potent.
It is just a recipe for desaster, simple as that.
I thought I'd never say something like this but get some Acetyl-/Butyr-Fentanyl instead if you feel the need to fuck around with these type of substances.

Anyone got the link from the guy who synthesized Methoxymetopon (sic?) and got addicted to it to the point where he commited suicide due to the unbelievable intense withdrawl?
 
how the fuck do you get off the methadone though...

Whenever im ready to get off of it? lol

I go to a clinic, with an awesome doctor for my 'done...

instead of wanting to keep me their forever, for more money, he asks me every few days if im ready to taper off yet, and im NOT ready YET. But the day WILL COME.

I have a friend, who went though the same exact thing I did, his dose was even higher than mine, he was on 110mg of methadone daily, he went down 2mg/week, once he got down to 10mg, he was still fine, no w/d. He went all the way down to 2mg, and stopped there. After that, he never touched opiates again. He's OFF methadone now.

I'm lucky to have a friend like that to help me get off 'done myself.

So yeah, that's how you get off any powerful narcotic/drug. TAPERING.

Cold turkey will almost NEVER work for anyone. Esp. at high doses, and esp. on powerful drugs such as methadone.
 
It's all tolerance, people who have been abusing opiates for a long period of time, will need something stronger, every so often. My experience is perfect for this topic.

I started using opiates at the age of 17, I'm 25 now, so that's 8+ years of Opiate tolerance. For the first 2 years, I was taking Hydrocodone Orally doses ranging from 80mg-120mg/daily. Hydro wasn't doing the job anymore, I had to take 150mg of it to feel my desired effects, and taking all that Tylenol could've easily killed me. I will never CWE my pills, for 2 reasons, takes too long, and losing some hydrocodone, So, I switched to OXYCODONE, that came in OC form or ROXY form without APAP, but the problem was, I stopped using Hydrocodone for 5-6 months COLD TURKEY, it was the toughest part of my life, but I got over the hump. My tolerance NEVER went down, I needed 60-80mg of Oxycodone per dose to get my desired effects. That's the problem with opiates, tolerance to them is a mother fucker, never goes down IME, so I was taking oxycodone for 3+ years, after they got too expensive, I tried to quit oxy cold turkey, I went 9 days in of HELL, and after those 9 days, I was feeling WORSE. I was like WTF, because with Hydrocodone I started to feel a little normal after just 5 days. So im like fuck this its never going away, that's when I started to smoke HEROIN, chasing the dragon for over a year, that's 6 years of Hardcore Narcotic abuse, the Heroin W/d was the only one I wanted to DIE on, I was sweating like I just got out the shower, I was puking on a empty stomach, some yellow acid type shit that was more bitter than Xanax pills, I was in extreme pain, RLS, I was literally crawling on my knees, my family saw me and rushed me to the hospital, I commited to them that I was on addict and need help, before we went, so I go in the ER and they put me in a room in less than 30 mins, because they saw how much pain I was in, seeing me puke out POISON, sweating like I just got out the shower, I was nearly about to DIE from dehydration. So they immiedatley put me on IV, started with just water so I don't dehydrate, the doctor came in and saw me in less than 15 mins cuz I was yelling, crying in pain, I didn't lie to the nurses nor doctors why im here, they said this is the only time we can help you with dope sickness, so they gave me meds to calm me down, all IV, Morphine, Ativan, and Promethazine. I finally stopped shaking, and could talk right, I was still in w/d but minor, because I wasn't dosed with enough morphine, obviously. The doctor told me and my parents, the only way to save yourself, is 2 options, REHAB, or MMT. We couldn't afford rehab. So my parents rushed me to a MMT clinic, and here I am today, 2 1/2 years later, still on methadone.

So that's nearly 9 years of using opiates, almost nothing will over power methadone. That's why tolerance is a bitch.

But I thank first and for most, god, and then methadone, because 'done SAVED my life.

Without methadone, I guarantee you I wouldn't be alive today.

Wow, a little dramatic there? That "poison" is called stomach bile. Seriously dude, get a grip. I could rip your pity party post to shreds with some of the shit I've gone through, and I'm sure a lot of other people here could as well. You've been smoking dope for one year. I'm not gonna one up you with some story of my 8 year IV heroin addiction.. All I'm gonna say.. Is that if you go around thinking and believing that you were forced into taking methadone, or rather given that as the only alternative to addiction youre in for one long miserable ride, you poor victim.
 
It's all tolerance, people who have been abusing opiates for a long period of time, will need something stronger, every so often. My experience is perfect for this topic.

I started using opiates at the age of 17, I'm 25 now, so that's 8+ years of Opiate tolerance. For the first 2 years, I was taking Hydrocodone Orally doses ranging from 80mg-120mg/daily. Hydro wasn't doing the job anymore, I had to take 150mg of it to feel my desired effects, and taking all that Tylenol could've easily killed me. I will never CWE my pills, for 2 reasons, takes too long, and losing some hydrocodone, So, I switched to OXYCODONE, that came in OC form or ROXY form without APAP, but the problem was, I stopped using Hydrocodone for 5-6 months COLD TURKEY, it was the toughest part of my life, but I got over the hump. My tolerance NEVER went down, I needed 60-80mg of Oxycodone per dose to get my desired effects. That's the problem with opiates, tolerance to them is a mother fucker, never goes down IME, so I was taking oxycodone for 3+ years, after they got too expensive, I tried to quit oxy cold turkey, I went 9 days in of HELL, and after those 9 days, I was feeling WORSE. I was like WTF, because with Hydrocodone I started to feel a little normal after just 5 days. So im like fuck this its never going away, that's when I started to smoke HEROIN, chasing the dragon for over a year, that's 6 years of Hardcore Narcotic abuse, the Heroin W/d was the only one I wanted to DIE on, I was sweating like I just got out the shower, I was puking on a empty stomach, some yellow acid type shit that was more bitter than Xanax pills, I was in extreme pain, RLS, I was literally crawling on my knees, my family saw me and rushed me to the hospital, I commited to them that I was on addict and need help, before we went, so I go in the ER and they put me in a room in less than 30 mins, because they saw how much pain I was in, seeing me puke out POISON, sweating like I just got out the shower, I was nearly about to DIE from dehydration. So they immiedatley put me on IV, started with just water so I don't dehydrate, the doctor came in and saw me in less than 15 mins cuz I was yelling, crying in pain, I didn't lie to the nurses nor doctors why im here, they said this is the only time we can help you with dope sickness, so they gave me meds to calm me down, all IV, Morphine, Ativan, and Promethazine. I finally stopped shaking, and could talk right, I was still in w/d but minor, because I wasn't dosed with enough morphine, obviously. The doctor told me and my parents, the only way to save yourself, is 2 options, REHAB, or MMT. We couldn't afford rehab. So my parents rushed me to a MMT clinic, and here I am today, 2 1/2 years later, still on methadone.

So that's nearly 9 years of using opiates, almost nothing will over power methadone. That's why tolerance is a bitch.

But I thank first and for most, god, and then methadone, because 'done SAVED my life.

Without methadone, I guarantee you I wouldn't be alive today.

Wtf does this have to do with the topic of this thread? Granted, it's a stupid topic but it it just looks to me like you needed an excuse to run your mouth about your life story. "It's all tolerance" is just a nonsensical segway that allows you to do what is obviously one of your favorite things: talk about yourself.

Oh, and to answer the question that is the title of this thread: you don't, unless you wish to die.
 
Tolerance sure as hell goes down.

I am older and have seen and heard of many Guys and gals that quit an oxy habit only to relapse a few months later and swell up dead after taking their " halcyon days" dose.

So be careful!

Back when I was a kid a friend ordered from pondman. The dilution method is what we used but we started at a known amount weighed by a pro here on the forum. This was with a 100% legal Enthogen at the time, but was dangerous if a few mgs off.

It sounds to me from a harm reduction perspective unless this is a hypothetical that the Op has bit off a great deal more than they can chew.

You are more likely to die from handling the stuff.

I'd also make sure you have what you think you have, so much in life is so much bullshit in the wind.
 
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