N&PD Moderators: Skorpio
How/why does phenibut have longer acting effects
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
Just wondering how it is that phenibut with a 5 hour half life has effects which last longer than 8-10 hours. For example once i have taken enough to get to sleep i have trouble getting out of bed even after 8-11 hours sleep.
Does it have an active metabolite?
zapatista
Bluelighter
Its the amount you take. It takes the body 5 hours to process 250mg of phenibut, so if you take anymore than this, the process gets back up.
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
Really thats interesting I normally dose a few grams.
I have notice lately using phenibut i feel sick/hangover the next day which i think has to do with liver toxicity. Does anyone else get this?
sekio
Bluelight Crew
It's not liver toxicity. I wouldn't doubt metabolites of phenibut i.e. 4-hydroxyphenibut and friends are active in some aspect. Phenibut is a relatively benign drug as far as load on your body goes, it does not have the toxicity of ethanol (though it may share the property of a hangover).
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
Its certainly toxic
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9310444&postcount=33
There are heaps of reports of phenibut toxic effects. I mean its not non-toxic like GABA i recon its the worst GABAgeneric drug out for your body. Very addictive, tolerance builds up faster than any other GABA, leave you feeling shitty the next day and is pretty weak&impotent for the amounts you take.
I have recently given my liver a thrashing an now notice phenibut doesn't go down as well as it used to. But i can use GHB or alcohol for days without any sides.
23536
Bluelight Crew
I've consumed tablespoons (>20g) of phenibut and felt nothing. At what dose does it become active?
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
Felt nothing? after 20gs! did u take nothing then take 20g of did u try smaller doses first. my guess you wasted the high originally on a low dose. It doesn't do that much in the way of euphoria or sedation.
whats ya tolerance to GABA drugs?
23536
Bluelight Crew
I'm tolerant to benzodiazepines, but have never really messed with any GABA-B stuff like GHB.
I've seen other accounts of a lack of response phenibut. Seems like a pointless drug. Whoever makes it would be better off acquiring the para-chloro analogue of the precursor and making baclofen instead.
23536
Bluelight Crew
why does this happen, I wonder. Why does a drug that does not bind to GABA-B give tolerance to GABA-B agonists?
drug_FUCKED
Bluelighter
Yeah i like baclofen heaps more.
Its interesting after doing some research it seems that phenibut is not toxic but there are heaps of reports of toxic-like side effects.
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AlphaOdure
Bluelighter
hmm, wonder if the source you were utilizing was cut, old, bad, expired, etc--could be a whole host of things. B/c 20g is a lot for a GABA-B agonist. You would literally be falling over drunk w/ ataxia, if you're awake that is. (btw- "Relax All-- WITH PHENIBUT" brand pills are absolute shit--you NEED powder).. these are typical side effects for GABA-B agonists- similar effects as GABA-A positive modulators, but, w/ more of the drunken feeling (which i don't prefer), cloudier head-space, & more impairment in speech. However, they do produce a more marked and unique euphoria; that can be--for me at least--nearly indistinguishable to that of an opioid nod (& i'm a recovering opioid/heroin addict, on buprenorphine, 4mg/day since '07)
I dose probably once a week anywhere from 5-20g (but as high as 40mg) at once; followed up w/ incremental doses between 1-5g if i take below 10mg. I do this during my day(s) "off" from benzodiazepines/GABAergics b/c of my huge tolerance (i'm at 40-60mg etizolam/day.. (technically a thienodiazepine) but this was due to recent extenuating circumstances & this daily intake is now severely--and quite easily i must add--dropping. Thankfully, i've only been on these higher end doses for a few weeks).
But a few days w/ phenibut, or if i decide to order some baclofen (not as satisfying though), helps knock my BZP tolerance down that much more quickly w/ the weaning as i plan to be on 10-20mg tops. I usually dose once a week; but sometimes several days in a row; but never more than 3 concurrent days. Doesn't seem to cause any rebound anxiety needed to be ailed by more benzo's i do get hangover's though. Although, truth be told, I usually end up throwing back a few smith & forge's hard ciders after a day of phenibut, so this may contribute doubly to any hangover effect. But, generally, phenibut is very sedating, musculoskeletally relaxing, minor-to-stumbling-drunken-like-ataxia (depending on dose), pupil dilatation, & as mentioned, a sneakingly similar "nod" type effect in higher doses. If i'm not careful i'll fall asleep for 12 hours straight w/ anything over 10-15g--and HARD comatose-like sleep 
.
Not particularly- I found absolutely zero cross tolerance between baclofen and high doses of the barbiturate butalbital when I was once dependent upon it. I was at doses of 1750-2000mg/day (35-40 pills/day- LD50 is 225mg supposedly, 3mg/kg.. but i've far exceeded that one); nor have I saw any cross tolerance between barbiturates and benzodiazepines--as no amount of any benzodiazepine can stop barbiturate withdrawal. Now, GABA-A positive allosteric modulators & GABA-B agonists are synergetic, that's for sure..
BlueCrest said:
The only exception here is phenibut; but this is purely from memory and I don't have the time to look it up now.. but it does possess GABA-a agonism at higher doses. Which is very odd pharmacology for a molecule b/c one is a G-coupled protein (GABA-B) and the other, GABA-A, is a more complex (& less common) type- its a LGIC (Ligand-gated ion channel) that is ionotropic.
AlphaOdure
Bluelighter
It shouldn't, and wont in most cases. Although, as I mentioned in my lengthy post below: phenibut is binds to a G-coupled-receptor, where as GABA-A is a more complex (& less common) type- its a LGIC (Ligand-gated ion channel) that is ionotropic.
Yet, despite these two totally different types of target areas, there are reports of phenibut acting as a GABA-A positive allosteric modulator; can't remember if it was at the BZP-binding sites though.
But I don't think your issue was tolerance; bad stuff? outdated? Maybe the powder settled somehow if some other people got effects and you didn't from the same batch (assuming there were additives to it & it wasn't just straight phenibut--as its not a FDA regulated product). And if you tried any pill formed phenibut like "Relax All"? There's your problem- they use the shittiest formulas of phenibut; i've gotten triple if not quadruple the effects--lasting into the next day from the same doses i tried w/ the "Relax All: WITH PHENIBUT" herbal supplement.
Side note: anyone notice dilated pupils on phenibut? Mine get dilated; not as much as a hefty does of miprocin or 4-AcO-DMT or mushrooms; but definitively dilated beyond normal size
Having used both benzos and GHB I'd have to partially disagree with that. GHB always worked at the same doses regardless of what my benzo tolerance was (don't know if the same holds the other way because I never took GHB often enough to cause any tolerance). If there benzo tolerance affects GHB tolerance the effect (at least for me) is very very low. But both benzos and GHB affect my alcohol tolerance.
As for phenibut.. I never noticed any recreational effects nor side effects, but it did make me fall asleep much faster when I wanted and the sleep was very good (kinda like GHB sleep except longer). Never noticed any changes in pupil size from it.
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endotropic
Bluelight Crew
GHB also activates the GHB receptor, so the lack of cross tolerance could be due to that effect as well.