How we rolled in the 90s when the pills were super strong

[Folley]

Bro, I've already explained it.

The isomers are ALWAYS the same when you make the racemic, which is what 99% of chemists would make.

When you synthesize MDMA, no matter which chemical you use as the precursor, PMK or safrole or whatever, you make MDMA. Nothing more, nothing less.


If you have pure MDMA, you have pure MDMA. It doesn't matter what was used to make it, it's a molecule bound to hydrochloride to make a salt, or crystal. That molecule is a set structure and can't change unless it goes through another chemical reaction, and then you don't have MDMA anymore.

 

[thizzlemonster86]

dude. i think folley is a chemist.

sorry if i put you on blast lol.

 

[growit&smokeit]

the mdma now does seem more chilled out and lacks the energy i used to get from pills. I am older though so will have less energy than 10 years ago. i'm more sensible with dosing now as well and only do up to 200mg over a night, usually less.
I think in the uk cutting with amphetamine was more common back then and maybee there was more different md** substances put into pills.
the q dances were lovely i stupidly gave my last 2 away to some randoms because i was so off my face the last time i did them. some mates snorted some and ended up with loads of red snot.

 

[Salandrion]

For me its easy to point out the difference.

90s/early 2000s = lots of pure pills and a variety of mixtures of MDXX that each had a unique property (I.E. MDMA/MDA pills MDMA only pills MDMA/MDEA pills) As well the quality of street speed was way better.

Now = Some notoriously strong, pure pills, occasionally with a mixture. But the majority of E pills now are adulterated or just weak. When your body digests 1 pill with 150 mg its going to smack you harder than 3 50mg pills at the same time.

 

[Decline1]

For me its easy to point out the difference.

90s/early 2000s = lots of pure pills and a variety of mixtures of MDXX that each had a unique property (I.E. MDMA/MDA pills MDMA only pills MDMA/MDEA pills) As well the quality of street speed was way better.

Now = Some notoriously strong, pure pills, occasionally with a mixture. But the majority of E pills now are adulterated or just weak. When your body digests 1 pill with 150 mg its going to smack you harder than 3 50mg pills at the same time.

Yes exactly, the pills were more varied in the past. Now, in the UK at least, we are seeing clean MDMA pills and the Dutch pills in particular are so strong that people just get lethargic and monged out - because that's what a 150mg plus of MDMA will do to you much of the time.

 

[Folley]

Yeah it sucks how hardly any chemists made MDE/MDA any more


Apparently the Pink/Red Rockstars contain amounts of MDE though, and there's one Iron Cross press that contains MDE as well

 

[Silveren]

Hey I know I'm new around here, but I may be able to help out with the chemistry discussion...

- Doesn't matter what the precursor is. The only variables would be temperature, pressure etc. It's like crocodile eggs are all female to start with, but if the batch gets warm past a certain point, they turn to males (look it up if you don't believe it). The MDMA synth requires a very specific and stable temperature for a very long time. Any slight variation in that will cause other chemicals to form, such as MDA and a few pretty nasty ones as well. If the pressure is incorrect while heating precursors, the wrong ones will evaporate at the temperature the correct ones should. There's plenty of points in the synth where things can go awry.

- Brown/red tinge in the final crystals is leftover MDP2P, a secondary precursor. Anything else has probably been added to the crystals during or after formation.

- Slightly different ratios of the isomers are definitely possible, though I'm unsure whether it is possible to specifically choose how much of which isomer is created. I would say that the particular lab where the defqons are made may have an experimental setup, and that is why they are a bit different.

I wish I could try the synth myself, but this country (and probably this world) is too anti to make it worth the risk...

As a final note...I've tried the defqons and it was the absolute best night of my life off one, don't remember a fair chunk of it but the few fractions I do remember still make me tingle. And I was still dancing my ass off.

 

[Folley]

- Slightly different ratios of the isomers are definitely possible, though I'm unsure whether it is possible to specifically choose how much of which isomer is created. I would say that the particular lab where the defqons are made may have an experimental setup, and that is why they are a bit different.

Care to elaborate more on that part?

Cause the way it was explained to me was that when you make MDMA you make the racemic, and that

a racemic mixture, or racemate ( /reɪˈsimeɪt/), is one that has equal amounts of left- and right-handed enantiomers of a chiral molecule.

 

[Silveren]

Sorry, used the wrong term. It depends on the reaction conditions, highly improbable (though not impossible) that anyone would manage to synth a perfect racemic mixture of any substance. Slight variations in temperature while crystallizing will make the molecules form slightly differently. I can't remember the precise details at the moment and am logged in through my phone, but when I get home I'll dig up the rest of the data and post it for you.

 

[Folley]

I'd love to see it, I would hate to spread misinformation!

 

[Glowing aaron]

Hate to piss on your isomer bonfire which is based on no evidence at all, just pure speculation that they have this equipment because they are the best pressers in the world right now, but the Defqons are the replacement for the qdance from the same pressers and the same MDMA. Any difference you feel is due to set and setting. MDMA can be quite flooring on a high dose its not uncommon.

 

[Kaaskoek]

...I am older though so will have less energy than 10 years ago...

I've been reading this entire thread with this thought in mind and you're the first one to say it. Everyone here who says that pills have decreased in quality have gained at least 10 years in age. I find it's more plausible to think that one can't roll as good/hard/intensely as one gets older, than to think that almost every manufacturer of MDMA in the entire world is getting sloppy with the production of their product. Maybe it's not the MDMA that has changed, maybe it's you instead. Still, it's just a hypothesis and I don't know shit about the subject, but I think it's a valid possibility worth to be taken in consideration.

 

[Silveren]

Folley -

Chiral Resolution

I was a bit out of it while writing the first lot up. It forms as a racemate but isn't too hard to separate with the right catalysts after it has formed.

Aaron - I know its speculation, all good. It's definitely a valid theory though, and honestly the only true proof we'd get is if the Defqon chemists told us themselves, which obviously isn't going to happen (unfortunately!). One thing is sure though, they definitely have some real nice equipment to make those. I was just helping Folley with general chemistry principles. And as I said, I was pretty spacey when writing so it kind of came out all wrong.

 

[Tripsetter]

As an older roller myself I would say it is definitely set setting. I have had some amazing rolls after taking a 10 year break from E. I think that once you have a mind blowing experience it's hard to have they same thing happen again as you already opened that portion of your subconscious. Until you are in the right mind set to open another deeper level.

 

[ChrisHolland]

As an older roller myself I would say it is definitely set setting. I have had some amazing rolls after taking a 10 year break from E. I think that once you have a mind blowing experience it's hard to have they same thing happen again as you already opened that portion of your subconscious. Until you are in the right mind set to open another deeper level.

Indeed, i liked it back in the 90's, didn't use for over 6 years.
After that a couple of crap years (in my perception) last 2 years i roll 2-3 times a year(im from holland so the pills are good) and it feels good again, it's all in the mind as long as the quality is good.

 

[Folley]

Folley -

Chiral Resolution

I was a bit out of it while writing the first lot up. It forms as a racemate but isn't too hard to separate with the right catalysts after it has formed.

Aaron - I know its speculation, all good. It's definitely a valid theory though, and honestly the only true proof we'd get is if the Defqon chemists told us themselves, which obviously isn't going to happen (unfortunately!). One thing is sure though, they definitely have some real nice equipment to make those. I was just helping Folley with general chemistry principles. And as I said, I was pretty spacey when writing so it kind of came out all wrong.

So you do have to make the racemic then, good, I'm glad I wasn't spreading lies!!


Seems like it's not too hard to separate the isomers though, which puts some fuel on the Defqon debate!

 

[Glowing aaron]

So you do have to make the racemic then, good, I'm glad I wasn't spreading lies!!


Seems like it's not too hard to separate the isomers though, which puts some fuel on the Defqon debate!

No it doesn't just because its possible doesn't mean they are doing it, you have no evidence other than speculation from other people who don't have a clue either.

Set setting and and your mental state effect your "Roll", god i hate that word.

 

[mark881]

I see age or setting as irrelevant for me. I go to the same clubs as 90s and as for energy, well I lift far heavier weights than I used to back then and take more exercise.

I do believe that the older pills maybe had more amphet in them. But also considering dosage per pill is lower.

I have found the Green Squares to be the closest thing to old school pills - particularly on the come up. Which indicates not all E tablets are created equal but also indicates old skool pills can be made again if a chemist really tried. I do however really like the way you aren't utterly trashed mentally/physically for a week afterwards with these newer weaker pills.

 

[Folley]

No it doesn't just because its possible doesn't mean they are doing it, you have no evidence other than speculation from other people who don't have a clue either.

Set setting and and your mental state effect your "Roll", god i hate that word.

I have "speculations" that say the exact same thing about these pills from a variety of people, including WeetVanWanten who is one of PR's most respected members.




Here are some excerpts from people on PR who have little to no knowledge of this debate


About the Defqons

Very nice warm feeling, not as dancey as the Qs but definatley a strong hard hitting puppy.

i had these over the last week an they are a good pill but something definitely seemed a bit off about them. i had low energy the whole night and just wanted to lay down and enjoy the massive rush of euphoria from these. iv read about MDA and it sounds a lot like what these feel like. they are good clean pills but still just a bit off for some reason. ideas anyone?

The night was very spacy, did them at home and the feeling was very relaxed, chill (not that speedy). It was a therapeutic experience to me

About the Q Dances, but there's not much info on them

+0.30: In the event. Notice im moving around and dancing alot more than I normally would be but not much euphoria going on. My two friends are already saying their jaws feel funny and legs are tingling.

You can find the same kind of comments in the Triforce and Speaker reports...



and this is what Weet has to say about the whole matter, although I must say I disagree that different synth routes have different effects, but as you can see he thinks there are differences too

I can not lie, so I remain sincere and my opinion is that the speakers are top quality. BUT ... I think the squirrel, and especially the Triforce, are of exceptional quality, which really is special!

More trippy, more energy, and especially a pure experience at the time of admin and the next day.
The boundaries are very close together, so I say now is not that they are better, but recognize a dif synth you must be really experienced user to recognize that :D

This is not just my opinion, but with many around me .....

 

[shimazu]

90s white people fashion should stay dead