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How toxic is Mephedrone?

65daysofstatic said:
Neither is 10...
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this is moronic.
10g is most certainly could be a lethal dose under certain circumstances.

when discussing toxicity ingeneral the concept of LD 50 is used. this is the dose that kills 50% of the test subjects, so for 50% of the test subjects the LD50 dose is not a lethal dose.

you morons need to read up on the long term adverse effects of low dose ephedrine given that you are exposing yourselves to the pharmacologically smilar paramethylephedrine metabolite. Ephedrine use causes vasocostriction of the vessels that supply blood to the heart, pathalogical examination of ephedrine users showed evidence of damage caused by lack of oxygen to the heart muscle, some users of 4MMC are reporting chest pains which sound a lot like angina, where the heart is not getting enough blood. even if there is no immediate serious effects this is a dangerous thing, the damage may accumulate.

Hence moderation is the key, avoiding the kind of stupid doses which lead to heavy exposures to the vasoconstrictive metabolites. I personally wouldn't touch 4-MMC with a shitty stick.

If any one wants to take the bet, I bet that scientific examination will show

1, 4-MMC is neurotoxic to neurons like methcathinone

2, 4-MMC is cardiotoxic due to vasoconstriction of the vessels supplying the heart muscle

3 Serious detectable pathalogical changes in heart muscle will be seen in heavy users.

some people are being really dumb with hothey use this untested drug, it is not big or clever or impressive to consume 10g it is plain stupid. it's not suprising because the typical profile of the heavy 4-MMC user posting here is, young, male and ill educated.

please be smart with dosingand consumption of this drug.
 
vecktor said:
this is moronic.
10g is most certainly could be a lethal dose under certain circumstances.

when discussing toxicity ingeneral the concept of LD 50 is used. this is the dose that kills 50% of the test subjects, so for 50% of the test subjects the LD50 dose is not a lethal dose.

you morons need to read up on the long term adverse effects of low dose ephedrine given that you are exposing yourselves to the pharmacologically smilar paramethylephedrine metabolite. Ephedrine use causes vasocostriction of the vessels that supply blood to the heart, pathalogical examination of ephedrine users showed evidence of damage caused by lack of oxygen to the heart muscle, some users of 4MMC are reporting chest pains which sound a lot like angina, where the heart is not getting enough blood. even if there is no immediate serious effects this is a dangerous thing, the damage may accumulate.

Hence moderation is the key, avoiding the kind of stupid doses which lead to heavy exposures to the vasoconstrictive metabolites. I personally wouldn't touch 4-MMC with a shitty stick.

If any one wants to take the bet, I bet that scientific examination will show

1, 4-MMC is neurotoxic to neurons like methcathinone

2, 4-MMC is cardiotoxic due to vasoconstriction of the vessels supplying the heart muscle

3 Serious detectable pathalogical changes in heart muscle will be seen in heavy users.

some people are being really dumb with hothey use this untested drug, it is not big or clever or impressive to consume 10g it is plain stupid. it's not suprising because the typical profile of the heavy 4-MMC user posting here is, young, male and ill educated.

please be smart with dosingand consumption of this drug.
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I'm not saying it isn't moronic. It's up to me what drugs I do and I have to deal with the consequences.

I don't make a habit of doing 10 grams in a session. But I've had many heavy all weekend sessions with mates.

Also, I'm not ill educated, quite the reverse. I'm clever but probably not very wise. I know a lot about the chemical I take but still end up abusing them.

Don't worry, I'm not some idiot that snorts lines all night thinking its doing no damage. I know I'll probably be an even bigger depressed wreck in the future, if there is a future.
 
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vecktor said:
it's not suprising because the typical profile of the heavy 4-MMC user posting here is, young, male and ill educated.
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so true! i would advise eating a couple of cloves of raw garlic (chop 'em up small) when using and try to get a couple of omega 3 fish oils. also dont buy more than you intend to do, and avoid sugary products (eat something slow complex carbohydrate wise like porridge). Avoid cannabis or the jwh series=D
 
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pofacedhoe said:
so true! i would advise eating a couple of cloves of raw garlic (chop 'em up small) when using and try to get a couple of omega 3 fish oils. also dont buy more than you intend to do, and avoid sugary products (eat something slow complex carbohydrate wise like porridge). Avoid cannabis or the jwh series=D
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Raw garlic will go down well with the ladies in night clubs 8). Mind you, will probably be drowned out by the reek of sweaty meph, fags and vodka (the staple diet of the young, male, ill educated meph user :p )
 
65daysofstatic said:
Raw garlic will go down well with the ladies in night clubs 8). Mind you, will probably be drowned out by the reek of sweaty meph, fags and vodka (the staple diet of the young, male, ill educated meph user :p )
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ha ha

yeah garlic stinks of shit, maybe have it before a meal wayyy before you dose or towards the end after the club. fish oils though shouldn't stink if you get the good ones (there's these ones smell of strawberrym, they're chewable for kids). meph shclong=D
 
So I tried this for the second time the other day (after a 5 day oxy binge) and had a terrible crash. I only took one 250mg oral dose and I when came down I was beyond anxious. I also felt extremely depressed about the fact that I didn't feel good and "up" anymore. When I was completely back to baseline I felt drained and tired, but my thoughts were too trippy to get a good nights sleep, even after taking 1mg klonopin.
I felt all of these symptoms well into the next day, until I used up my last little bit of oxy, which I didn't want to do, but had to because of how bad the anxiety was getting.
Has anyone else had a crash this terrible from such a small dose? Or was this the result of taking meph after an oxy binge?

I feel like this shit has to be a serotonin precursor, because the only time I have felt a crash/drained like this is after taking tan stars.
 
shoolameet said:
So I tried this for the second time the other day (after a 5 day oxy binge) and had a terrible crash. I only took one 250mg oral dose and I when came down I was beyond anxious. I also felt extremely depressed about the fact that I didn't feel good and "up" anymore. When I was completely back to baseline I felt drained and tired, but my thoughts were too trippy to get a good nights sleep, even after taking 1mg klonopin.
I felt all of these symptoms well into the next day, until I used up my last little bit of oxy, which I didn't want to do, but had to because of how bad the anxiety was getting.
Has anyone else had a crash this terrible from such a small dose? Or was this the result of taking meph after an oxy binge?

I feel like this shit has to be a serotonin precursor, because the only time I have felt a crash/drained like this is after taking tan stars.
Click to expand...

250 milligrams isn't a small dose.
 
shoolameet said:
So I tried this for the second time the other day (after a 5 day oxy binge) and had a terrible crash. I only took one 250mg oral dose and I when came down I was beyond anxious. I also felt extremely depressed about the fact that I didn't feel good and "up" anymore. When I was completely back to baseline I felt drained and tired, but my thoughts were too trippy to get a good nights sleep, even after taking 1mg klonopin.
I felt all of these symptoms well into the next day, until I used up my last little bit of oxy, which I didn't want to do, but had to because of how bad the anxiety was getting.
Has anyone else had a crash this terrible from such a small dose? Or was this the result of taking meph after an oxy binge?

I feel like this shit has to be a serotonin precursor, because the only time I have felt a crash/drained like this is after taking tan stars.
Click to expand...

i get much worse comedowns when i take opium with meph so yes the combined comedown is unbearable,

yes its well kown that having low endorphin levels and low monoamines for instance the crash from doing methamphetamine after a binge on heroin is much worse than either alone. its obvious because the combined high is so much better than the sum of its parts.

this is why i want to stop using mephedrone

250mg is a small dose in relation to how much is generally used i.e its not uncommon for an individual to dose a gram or more in one sitting (when used nasally)

also i find drugs that up serotonin effects seems to leave me unstable when they wear off (ssri's, mdma,mda, methylone) , as do drugs that up endorphin levels (poppy tea, opium, morphine). both these systems seem involved in the regulation of distress...
 
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I figure I may as well share my story with this substance. I *greatly* regret taking it, and in hindsight don't know what the hell I was thinking. I had quit research chemicals for over a year to stick to more tested things I felt safer with, but I guess I really got sucked into the mephedrone bandwagon. I don't blame anyone for using it besides myself, but I will say that I was certainly under the impression this was the wonder drug of the century: no negative effects, a safer alternative to MDMA, everyone loves it, wave of the future, perfectly safe, blah blah blah. Still my own fault for not doing my own research, and getting carried away with it.

Anyways I did probably around four grams over three days (the total extent of my use), I know fucking retarded, people can't beat me up for this mistake more than I already have myself. I even continued using it after I realized I was getting bad effects from it, telling myself that only happened when I used a lot and I could just use one line and be fine (one turn to two fast and two to three etc).

Anyways, what all did happen to me from mephedrone. First of all, the first horrible effect I noticed before I realized anything else was wrong at all was an electrical feeling pain in my foot. Like, I thought my foot must have brushed against an exposed wire or something. I look at my foot and it has an oozing sore on it, looks horrible, right where the pain was.

Then I notice my hands are flushed and red. My knees are purple. The side of my other foot is dark brown discolored and the veins are engorged. My hands are white as sheets after the redness goes away, but the tips of the fingers from the last joint on up are bright red and will remain this way for around three or four weeks.

I got sores in my mouth and on my tongue that tasted like mephedrone and seemed to break open. My knuckles are discolored, which stands out strangely from my paper white hands (and blood red finger tips).

Other horrible effects I got were amnesia (snapping to the next day as I am in the process of sniffing a line, forgeting that I had not slept yet and that I had infact most likely been up sniffing lines the entire fucking night). Some heart pains the third day which is the day I flushed the rest of what I had down the toilet. The heart pains went away the same day and did not come back.

So now it has been around five or six weeks since my last dose. My hands are close to normal color, even the tips are not blood red anymore but maybe a wee bit pinker than they used to be. The oozing sore on my foot where I felt the electrical pain has mostly healed, but it seems to have left a pink scar behind , it looks like a perfect circle. The skin is also a bit indented there.

My knees are normal color usually now, but when I take a shower they get BRIGHT red. I don't know why this is only when I take a shower. Another thing I noticed is immediately after my mephedrone binge I started getting a *lot* of infections. Pink eye in both eyes, two ear infections, throat infection. Thankfully they all seem to have cleared up now and are not coming back, but I was sick and even feverous (low grade) for an entire month, longer than I have ever been sick for before.

One foot still has discoloration on the side, but it isn't as bad as it was. It went from bright red, to dark brown / bronze (I was soooo worried I was going to get gangrene but now think I am probably not), to a sickely looking off colored bruised flesh color to now what it is which is pretty much a shade or two off the normal color with hints of pink and maybe very light hint of purple. At first glance you can't even see the discoloration now though, it has definitely gotten much better. I do notice occasional sharp pains in my hands and feet now, but they are not too bad and only last a split second.

What I really would like to know is what are the chances that I develop gangrene at this point? (Over a month and a week afer my last dose, with no signs of blackness in anything yet, so I should be probably ok right? When I squeeze my finger tip it goes very very white but the blood comes right back, and I still have feeling through out my body, although perhaps where my foot is discolored it is lacking a tiny bit of feeling I can still feel it pretty fine and when I press it down it goes from white to colored.)

So really people I mean I know I am a fucking retard and I know this shit is totally unresearched and no one really knows, but what the fuck happened to me? Is it likely I did permanent serious damage to myself? Am I probably going to be ok since I have been ok for this long with nothing serious? I have been to the doctor like five or six times since it happened and they seem to think I am mostly ok besides for a nasty infection (that finally cleared up, WOOT). They didn't do any real tests on me, but took blood pressure, looked at my discoloration , etc. They seem to think I am just a fucking hypocondriac with some infections, which is quite possible, I feel like a fucking hypocondriac since I used mephedrone. I examine my body for like the slightest irregularity and as soon as I find one convince myself I have some synthetic mephedrone induced AIDS or some shit. But I am starting to feel a lot better just wanted to add my experience in case it helps anyone else or warns people not to fuck with this nasty drug.

Also want to add I forgot to mention I was VERY light headed after the last day I used mephedrone, but it went away about as fast as the heart pains. But I notice recently I am a bit light headed on occasion and also sometimes need to catch my breath a bit more than I used to maybe.

Also I just want to say to the people who are accusing it of all being in peoples heads, fuck you guys, just because you can binge on mephedrone and do ten grams in a day you are fucking diluting the honest to god truth about this drug in that it does in some people cause real horrible effects. I see so much justification with this drug, like oh I am going to go off about shit I know nothing about because either

1. I use this shit like no other and want to comfort myself by preaching about how safe mephedrone is and backing it up with pseudo-science i pulled out of my ass, confusing the issues but making myself feel better for being a mephedrone junkie

2. You are involved with mephedrone at a level other than end user and don't want to hurt your lucrative market so spread shit about it and want to promote the bandwagon that this is a safe awesome wonder drug that never causes anyone any problems

seriously I mean I can take responsibility for my stupidity and admit I was an idiot, but I can't stand reading through the threads on mephedrone and seeing the same attitude of people discounting the real experiences of others with *nothing* to base it on.

ok that is all I have to say sorry if I broke any rules or anything or come across as hostile to anyone. As I said before, I take full responsibility for my stupid actions and know I did this to myself. I don't want to see mephedrone banned or anything because people should have a choice what they use, but damn I wish this shit didn't have a choir of marketers singing its praises and discounting negative experiences of people, because it IS at least helping contribute to people making stupid choices. Although people can only blame themselves.

edit: One more thing to note is although I used about 4 grams over three days, I was doing very small lines. I wasn't weighing them out, but they were about as big as I make a line of ketamine. I would *guess* I was doing about 50 MG lines once every half hour or so for about 12 hours a day. Also worth noting is I got NO negative effects at all until about hour 11 or 12 of the first day. And what I feel most stupid for is that I kept using after this point =(
 
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I'm sorry that happened to you man, sounds pretty nasty. I also laugh at the mephedrone junkies trying to make themselves feel better in this thread. All of the chemists who've looked at the SAR and the personal reports have a pretty good fact based argument that this is probably pretty bad for you, even if you don't have awful side effects straight away. I haven't seen this many bad effects in people from an RC in a long long time (maybe ever?).

I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like you're going to be okay now. I've seen pictures of gangrene from shooting opiates into an artery, and from Bromo-DragonFly, and the extremities blackened within a couple of days, so I'd say you're good there. The swelling and numbness and heart pain sounds like vasoconstriction. That's good, because you should be good now that you've stopped and haven't lost any limbs :-p.

According to this: http://www.thebody.com/content/art25445.html methamphetamine (and probably methcathinone) suppresses the immune system. Mephedrone is pretty close to meth, and I think a lot of drugs do this, so that's probably why you got sick. I'm sure someone with more pharmacology knowledge than me will comment soon. Don't stress about it though, sounds like you're getting better and will probably get out of this with only a harsh warning from your body.

Best of luck in recovery!
 
Does anyone think that taking some tylenol before downing some drone would help to diminish some of its vasoconstrictive properties? Or would this just be a horrible idea?
 
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