• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

how to reintroduce meat into one's diet

I disagree that a vegetarian diet is not healthier than a meat eating diet.

It depends on the diet itself. Surely a person who eats a piece of fish once a month probably will not have a significant physiological change or negative results as opposed to a person who eats the same diet without any meat.



However, a person who eats primarily meat, with little to no vegetables or fruit, as a person who eats primarily fruit, with no meat would probably turn up more unhealthy in any study over a period of time.



Including small portions of meat in a diet seem fine, but larger portions, and lack of other food groups can cause problems.


This comment is unbias, as I support both vegetarianism and meat eating
 
>>
It depends on the diet itself. Surely a person who eats a piece of fish once a month probably will not have a significant physiological change or negative results as opposed to a person who eats the same diet without any meat.



However, a person who eats primarily meat, with little to no vegetables or fruit, as a person who eats primarily fruit, with no meat would probably turn up more unhealthy in any study over a period of time.



Including small portions of meat in a diet seem fine, but larger portions, and lack of other food groups can cause problems.>>

You are correct. However, I would argue that the optimum diet would include fish.

ebola
 
newskin said:
Deja why are you trying to eliminate meat from your diet? Vegetarian and vegan diets are not healthier. If you have a moral problem with meat that's cool. . .but otherwise there's no reason to not eat from this healthy and delicious food group (see my comments about saturated fats a few posts up if you think meat is unhealthy.)

Whether they are healthier or not is up for debate. There is some evidence of it being healthier (less colon cancer risks/cholesterol etc)..but I think a lot of it depends on each persons individual composition. I personally feel its healthier for me because I was a vegetarian for about a year and during that time I had increased energy, never felt sick, and my skin cleared up a lot. I got lazy though and went back to eating meat. Something Ive felt guilty about ever since.

The main reason though, is moral. Ive always been a HUGE lover of animals and a supporter of animal rights. No matter what you think about the food chain, or the rights and wrongs of raising animals for food, it all comes down to this for me: If you put a cow in front of me and said I had to kill it to eat steak dinners for the next month, or gave me a bag of brown rice and some veggie seeds, I simply WOULD NOT be able to harm that cow, no matter how great those steaks might taste. I feel its wrong that if I cannot kill an animal (hell I have trouble smushing a spider for gods sake) I should be able to enjoy their meat. If I ever saw a cow killed in front of me I would probably cry for days and never touch meat again.

It just feels like Im denying a part of myself, a standard that I know I should live by but have been avoiding due to laziness. I think its really a personal choice for everyone and dont look down on those who eat meat, but I really feel our society would be better off in the long run if we moved away from using animals for food.
 
yeah, plus like i said, i am allergic to all nuts and have a reeeally hard time finding anyting appetizing to eat at restaurants, as a vegetarian.

so far i'm doing well with chicken! no problemo digestive wise. meat dishes are sooooooo heavy if you're used to eating veggie food. i still want to try fish, but it takes a lot of getting used to- i never even ate fish as a child!! (sheltered childhood, lol)
 
I was a vegetarian for 30 out of 41 years . a few yeasr ago I was watching a tv show ( i think it was the survivir show where they killed and ate a pig .) to my surprise my mouth watered. I was wondering if maybe i ate animals if I might feel better (( i had another one of my LONG lasting and frequesnt colds.) I went out adn bought a very expensice nice can of sardines and ate them with dry toast . I ate albacore tuns a few days later. within a half a year I switched to chicken , . and a year more I was ( and am ) eating any animal ((but NOT cold cuts of course and not hotdogs ) I can get my teeth into and my health is way WAYYYYY better. I never drink milk tho and never have . and veggies ave remined but I am ANTI tofu ( it is a thyroid gland destroyer in high qulatities -- fact ! )
 
I response to the original post -

just eat some! I didn't eat meat for 4 years or so but spontaneously ate a small hunk of tri tip a couple weeks ago - (I was feeling really crappy, kind of sick) - it tasted great and made me feel a lot better.

I've heard of people eating meat for the first time after years of abstinence and getting violently sick, puking it right back up, etc., but I found it gave me some sustained mental energy and put me in a positive mood.

Now I plan to eat meat more frequently; based on how I feel. My diet will be mainly veggies/grains/nuts etc with some cheese and occasionally some high quality meat to supplement that.
 
i think it would be good for me to get the protein and vitamins from meat, but i keep putting off actually eating some.

WHAT vitamins? lol.

The protein, sure, but you can easily get a better source from legumes..

... but spontaneously ate a small hunk of tri tip a couple weeks ago - (I was feeling really crappy, kind of sick) - it tasted great and made me feel a lot better.

Yeah, gotta love the stuff in meat that triggers opiate receptors in the brain! Too bad your colon and heart won't thank you in the end..

Vegetarian and vegan diets are not healthier.

Riiiight.. probably the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard.
 
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^^^
That's what it felt like - an opiate! What is the "stuff" in meat that works on our opiate receptors?
 
StagnantReaction said:
WHAT vitamins? lol.

The protein, sure, but you can easily get a better source from legumes..

I tried for 10 years to get my protein from legumes and other veggie sources, but it did not work for me. Stomach cramps and gas problems, not to mention difficulty obtaining proper veggie meals while hanging out with a bunch of meat eaters, caused me to end up eating mostly pastas and other crap foods most of the time.

So, vegetarianism is awesome and healthy in theory, but it doesn't work for me right now.
 
^^ Oh, my mistake. That's just dairy.

In 1981, Eli Hazum and his colleagues at Wellcome Research Laboratories in Research Triangle Park, N.C., reported a remarkable discovery. Analyzing samples of cow’s milk, they found traces of a chemical that looked very much like morphine. They put it to one chemical test after another. And, finally, they arrived at the conclusion that, in fact, it is morphine. There is not a lot of it, and not every sample had detectable levels. But there is indeed some morphine in both cow’s milk and human milk.

Morphine, of course, is an opiate and is highly addictive. So how did it get into milk? At first, the researchers theorized that it must have come from the cows’ diets. After all, morphine used in hospitals comes from poppies and is also produced naturally by a few other plants that the cows might have been eating. But it turns out that cows actually produce it within their bodies, just as poppies do. Traces of morphine, along with codeine and other opiates, are apparently produced in cows’ livers and can end up in their milk.

But that was only the beginning, as other researchers soon found. Cow’s milk—or the milk of any other species, for that matter—contains a protein called casein that breaks apart during digestion to release a whole host of opiates called casomorphins. A cup of cow’s milk contains about six grams of casein. Skim milk contains a bit more, and casein is concentrated in the production of cheese.

If you examined a casein molecule under a powerful microscope, it would look like a long chain of beads (the “beads” are amino acids—simple building blocks that combine to make up all the proteins in your body). When you drink a glass of milk or eat a slice of cheese, stomach acid and intestinal bacteria snip the casein molecular chains into casomorphins of various lengths. One of them, a short string made up of just five amino acids, has about one-tenth the pain-killing potency of morphine.

What are these opiates doing there, hidden in milk proteins? It appears that the opiates from mother’s milk produce a calming effect on the infant and, in fact, may be responsible for a good measure of the mother-infant bond. No, it’s not all lullabies and cooing. Psychological bonds always have a physical underpinning. Like it or not, mother’s milk has a drug-like effect on the baby’s brain that ensures that the baby will bond with Mom and continue to nurse and get the nutrients all babies need. Like heroin or codeine, casomorphins slow intestinal movements and have a decided antidiarrheal effect. The opiate effect may be why adults often find that cheese can be constipating, just as opiate painkillers are.

It is an open question to what extent dairy opiates enter the adult circulation. Until the 1990s, researchers thought that these protein fragments were too large to pass through the intestinal wall into the blood, except in infants, whose immature digestive tracts are not very selective about what passes through. They theorized that milk opiates mainly acted within the digestive tract and that they signaled comfort or relief to the brain indirectly, through the hormones traveling from the intestinal tract to the brain.

But French researchers fed skim milk and yogurt to volunteers and found that, sure enough, at least some casein fragments do pass into the bloodstream. They reach their peak about 40 minutes after eating. Cheese contains far more casein than other dairy products do. As milk is turned into cheese, most of its water, whey proteins, and lactose sugar are removed, leaving behind concentrated casein and fat.

Cheese holds other drug-like compounds as well. It contains an amphetamine-like chemical called phenylethylamine, or PEA, which is also found in chocolate and sausage. And there are many hormones and other compounds in cheese and other dairy products whose functions are not yet understood. In naloxone tests, the opiate-blocking drugeliminates some of cheese’s appeal, just as it does for chocolate.

Although meat products have been proven to show withdrawal-like symptoms very similar to the ones opiates create.
 
>>If you examined a casein molecule under a powerful microscope, it would look like a long chain of beads (the “beads” are amino acids—simple building blocks that combine to make up all the proteins in your body). When you drink a glass of milk or eat a slice of cheese, stomach acid and intestinal bacteria snip the casein molecular chains into casomorphins of various lengths. One of them, a short string made up of just five amino acids, has about one-tenth the pain-killing potency of morphine.
>>

Most reading I have done indicates that caseo-morphine does not cross the BBB in significant quantities in most individuals.

>>Cheese holds other drug-like compounds as well. It contains an amphetamine-like chemical called phenylethylamine, or PEA, which is also found in chocolate and sausage.>>

phenylethylamine, while structurally similar to amphetamines (clearly), does not have a similar profile of receptor affinities or propensity to cross the BBB.

...
Look, if dairy got me high, I'd start eating it again (j/k!!) :)

ebola
 
Well you can't help but corrolate the animal products giving you constipation and morphine doing similar..
 
Ehm, by that logic you can't help but correlate the ear ringing you get from nangs and overdosing on aspirin. Lots of things can make you constipated, correlation is not causation.

--- G.
 
Because I just can't help but think that people are literally addicted to eating meat. It's flavorless, has no real vitaminal merit, the fats contained in it promotes artery clogging, and people's attitudes and bodily responses are very much akin to a serious drug addiction.

"I just can't quit eating it" tends to be a popular response towards their view on vegetarianism. Even when proposed with $1000 to quit for a week... Wouldn't you wonder?
 
Most people who eat meat do so because they enjoy the taste. Your opinion is perfectly valid, but don't assume that everybody shares your relatively unorthodox taste buds. I suppose anything that somebody enjoys is potentially addictive, going by the current trend of the media.

Here is the nutrition info for a lean cut steak. Keep in mind there are many other healthier meat options as well such as fat free chicken breast, and cold water fatty fish :

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-001-02s02sj.html

The website says:
"It is a good source of Niacin, Vitamin B6, Iron, Phosphorus and Zinc, and a VERY GOOD source of Protein and Vitamin B12."

Also, check out the amino acid profile:

Protein 22.1 g
Tryptophan 239 mg
Threonine 1022 mg
Isoleucine 1142 mg
Leucine 1954 mg
Lysine 2074 mg
Methionine 627 mg
Cystine 237 mg
Phenylalanine 958 mg
Tyrosine 810 mg
Valine 1195 mg
Arginine 1489 mg
Histidine 712 mg
Alanine 1336 mg
Aspartic acid 2203 mg
Glutamic acid 3542 mg
Glycine 1051 mg
Proline 934 mg
Serine 887 mg
Hydroxyproline 102 mg

I get all these amino acids together in just one food by eating beef. As a vegitarian you need to combine proteins from different sources. Sure it works, but it's awfully strange to imply that this system is somehow intrinsically superior, or that humans were "meant" to eat that way.

I'm sure vegitarians would be having a field day if meat eaters had to eat chicken, beef and fish all in the same day to get a complete protein.
 
>>Because I just can't help but think that people are literally addicted to eating meat. It's flavorless, has no real vitaminal merit, the fats contained in it promotes artery clogging, and people's attitudes and bodily responses are very much akin to a serious drug addiction.>>

hmmm...I was thinking that people just liked the taste and texture. That was my experience going vegan. No withdrawl or anything of the sort.

ebola
 
newskin said:

I get all these amino acids together in just one food by eating beef. As a vegitarian you need to combine proteins from different sources.

Another way to look at it is to say that from eating from a variety of sources you simply do not have to worry about any vitamin deficiencies or finding a single place to find a huge source of protein-- as fresh produce and legumes easily complete the protein balance over time. Two birds, one stone.

I've also heard that the average american eats way too much protein.

hmmm...I was thinking that people just liked the taste and texture. That was my experience going vegan. No withdrawl or anything of the sort.

So you simply liked the taste and texture pre-vegan, thus no withdrawl when you made the shift?
 
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