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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

How much will Kratom increase my opiod tolerance?

Psynaught

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 12, 2023
Messages
180
I take about 5 grams of Kratom 5 days a week. I have been doing this for several years. I have a bunch of opioids (Fent, Oxy, Tramadol) and have been very good with them. I was getting high on opioids about once a week. I would take 1 Oxy (30 mg) 1 Fent (the Mexican blue) and 1 100 mg Tramadol. I weigh 225 lbs. Believe it or not I only get modestly high from that amount.

Actually, last week I did not really get high at all. One day I took 1 Oxy and 1 fent because my back was killing me (long day of travel) and 1 night I took 1 Tramadol because I was feeling depressed. I have not taken anything this week.

I think that my tolerance to opiods may be high because of the Kratom use, however, and was wondering what others thought of that.
 
I'll be curious to hear what other people say, but it doesn't seem like 5 g of kratom is such a high dose compared to the opis you're taking. 30 mg of true oxy alone is way the hell stronger than 5 mg of kratom, it seems to me. But maybe I'm missing something about the effects of kratom on opi tolerance. I have heard on other threads that it messes it up
Also, perhaps the Mexican blue was weaker than ones in the past? I can't imagine quality control is that great with that stuff
 
I take about 5 grams of Kratom 5 days a week. I have been doing this for several years. I have a bunch of opioids (Fent, Oxy, Tramadol) and have been very good with them. I was getting high on opioids about once a week. I would take 1 Oxy (30 mg) 1 Fent (the Mexican blue) and 1 100 mg Tramadol. I weigh 225 lbs. Believe it or not I only get modestly high from that amount.

Actually, last week I did not really get high at all. One day I took 1 Oxy and 1 fent because my back was killing me (long day of travel) and 1 night I took 1 Tramadol because I was feeling depressed. I have not taken anything this week.

I think that my tolerance to opiods may be high because of the Kratom use, however, and was wondering what others thought of that.

There was a thread on here about kratom use potentially inhibiting the action of certain opioids, oxycodone in particular somehow even a while after quitting kratom. Not sure what to think of that but I was a long term kratom user myself for 6 years and when I came across a few OC 80s I basically went through 3 of them in one night. The stuff wasnt bad exactly but it seemed pretty weak, so maybe there is something to that claim.

To be clear, I don't think this is "normal" kratom tolerance. Kratom seems relatively mild and pretty self limiting in ramping up opioid tolerance (not saying it can't lead to considerable withdrawals for some people). At some point when even 10g don't get you high anymore there is not much point to continue and its time for a tolerance break.

On the contrary, I used kratom with great success to lower my opioid tolerance. After two weeks on etonitazene I decided to switch to kratom to wean myself off. I used 10g of kratom once a day which I did not feel but kept me well. After about a week on it I started to feel my kratom dose again, so I assume my kratom use factually lowered my tolerance pretty much all by itself without even really trying. I jumped off at that point without issue. My room mate at the time did not wean himself off and he suffered withdrawals instead.
 
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I think it's quite dose dependent and how long you've been taking it, but it does cause significant tolerance in my experience. I once switched from ~10g per day to oxymorphone and I needed double the dose of it to feel what I expected to feel from it.
 
First off, let's talk terminology for a second. In the context of this thread and for that matter, the vast majority of our communications on this site:

Opioid - Referring to substances/pharmaceuticals that are defined as Opioid Agonists. There are different Opioid receptors, though they are vastly different in the effects they produced when agonized. For our purposes, we are discussing substances/pharmaceuticals that primarily produce their effects by agonizing the Mu Opioid Receptor or, MOR for short. I'm not going to get into the other receptors types because I don't feel they're incredibly relevant here.

For the uninitiated, the simple explanation is that the MOR is the receptor responsible for all of the effects that you think and feel when you think of the word Opioid; the desired effects; the effects that cause people to become addicted; the effects that mitigate pain and misery.

The vast majority of "Opioids" discussed here on Bluelight are MOR agonists and less commonly, we will discuss substances that work upon other receptors, but to a much lesser extent. For instance, Pentazocine (Talwin) was once a very popular drug of abuse that was both a Mu and a Kappa agonist. There are no drugs like this, at this time, that I'm aware of that are similar in this way.

I have read a lot about Kratom. I've talked to at least 100 serious Kratom addicts in my time... probably more. I'm getting fuckin old here guys.

The active constituent of Kratom is a family of alkaloids known as Mitragynine(s). The two primary alkaloids that produce Mu receptor agonism are the eponymous Mitragynine and 7-Hydroxymitragynine or 7-OH colloquially. Mitragynine is more plentiful by volume, but 7-OH is a more potent overall chemical, so both play a significant role in the totality of effects produced by the substance.

After reading and talking with a lot of people over the course of years, I'm very tempted to say that Kratom and therefore Mitragynine are little more than your garden variety Opioid(s). I do believe that as a plant, there is possibly more at work than just said agonism, though I feel that this auxilliary stuff would be of modest relevance to the person using them.

I've yet to see anything that convinces me that Kratom is anything but a somewhat exotic (to us) Opioid that has yet to be made illegal, thereby filling a vacuum in the market for folks who don't wish to use Fentanyl or are respected citizens who couldn't afford to be caught with hard drugs. We all want to believe that our Opioid habit is something other than what it is. I've been there.

To answer OP's question directly:

Kratom isn't going to "increase your tolerance" gram for gram more than any other Opioid, you feel me? We are doing apples to apples accounting here. We are just dealing with apples of differing potencies.

Don't look at it as, "this is how addicted I am to Tramadol, but this is how addicted I am to Fentanyl; it's all just about your total number of Morphine Milligram Equivalents or MME. This is the system they will use in hospital and medical clinics to standardize a person's total Opioid intake.

The only problem is, we have not even an educated guess at determining the strength of your Kratom and even more so for the Fentanyl you're using.

With that being said, Kratom didn't increase your tolerance per se, you just took more Opioids and that's what raised your tolerance. Which Opioid it was has little importance relative to your total number of MME's. I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions guys.
 
First off, let's talk terminology for a second. In the context of this thread and for that matter, the vast majority of our communications on this site:

Opioid - Referring to substances/pharmaceuticals that are defined as Opioid Agonists. There are different Opioid receptors, though they are vastly different in the effects they produced when agonized. For our purposes, we are discussing substances/pharmaceuticals that primarily produce their effects by agonizing the Mu Opioid Receptor or, MOR for short. I'm not going to get into the other receptors types because I don't feel they're incredibly relevant here.

For the uninitiated, the simple explanation is that the MOR is the receptor responsible for all of the effects that you think and feel when you think of the word Opioid; the desired effects; the effects that cause people to become addicted; the effects that mitigate pain and misery.

The vast majority of "Opioids" discussed here on Bluelight are MOR agonists and less commonly, we will discuss substances that work upon other receptors, but to a much lesser extent. For instance, Pentazocine (Talwin) was once a very popular drug of abuse that was both a Mu and a Kappa agonist. There are no drugs like this, at this time, that I'm aware of that are similar in this way.

I have read a lot about Kratom. I've talked to at least 100 serious Kratom addicts in my time... probably more. I'm getting fuckin old here guys.

The active constituent of Kratom is a family of alkaloids known as Mitragynine(s). The two primary alkaloids that produce Mu receptor agonism are the eponymous Mitragynine and 7-Hydroxymitragynine or 7-OH colloquially. Mitragynine is more plentiful by volume, but 7-OH is a more potent overall chemical, so both play a significant role in the totality of effects produced by the substance.

After reading and talking with a lot of people over the course of years, I'm very tempted to say that Kratom and therefore Mitragynine are little more than your garden variety Opioid(s). I do believe that as a plant, there is possibly more at work than just said agonism, though I feel that this auxilliary stuff would be of modest relevance to the person using them.

I've yet to see anything that convinces me that Kratom is anything but a somewhat exotic (to us) Opioid that has yet to be made illegal, thereby filling a vacuum in the market for folks who don't wish to use Fentanyl or are respected citizens who couldn't afford to be caught with hard drugs. We all want to believe that our Opioid habit is something other than what it is. I've been there.

To answer OP's question directly:

Kratom isn't going to "increase your tolerance" gram for gram more than any other Opioid, you feel me? We are doing apples to apples accounting here. We are just dealing with apples of differing potencies.

Don't look at it as, "this is how addicted I am to Tramadol, but this is how addicted I am to Fentanyl; it's all just about your total number of Morphine Milligram Equivalents or MME. This is the system they will use in hospital and medical clinics to standardize a person's total Opioid intake.

The only problem is, we have not even an educated guess at determining the strength of your Kratom and even more so for the Fentanyl you're using.

With that being said, Kratom didn't increase your tolerance per se, you just took more Opioids and that's what raised your tolerance. Which Opioid it was has little importance relative to your total number of MME's. I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions guys.
It is quite amazing how good kratoms safety profile is. There are maybe a few hundred cases documented where people died and the large majority of cases had a deadly cocktail of drugs in their system that explained the deaths without kratom. That makes kratom magnitudes more safe than aspirin for example. There is virtually no breathing depression involved. I have to agree, it is an opioid but a pretty unique one. Not only is it physically safe, it also is kinda self limiting in its addiction potential because of its ceiling effect. Then it is very suitable for a pretty relaxed tapering regime which can be remarkably short compared to other substitutes like methadone or suboxone. If kratom gets banned this will remove a big asset in the opioid epidemic.
 
First off, let's talk terminology for a second. In the context of this thread and for that matter, the vast majority of our communications on this site:

Opioid - Referring to substances/pharmaceuticals that are defined as Opioid Agonists. There are different Opioid receptors, though they are vastly different in the effects they produced when agonized. For our purposes, we are discussing substances/pharmaceuticals that primarily produce their effects by agonizing the Mu Opioid Receptor or, MOR for short. I'm not going to get into the other receptors types because I don't feel they're incredibly relevant here.

For the uninitiated, the simple explanation is that the MOR is the receptor responsible for all of the effects that you think and feel when you think of the word Opioid; the desired effects; the effects that cause people to become addicted; the effects that mitigate pain and misery.

The vast majority of "Opioids" discussed here on Bluelight are MOR agonists and less commonly, we will discuss substances that work upon other receptors, but to a much lesser extent. For instance, Pentazocine (Talwin) was once a very popular drug of abuse that was both a Mu and a Kappa agonist. There are no drugs like this, at this time, that I'm aware of that are similar in this way.

I have read a lot about Kratom. I've talked to at least 100 serious Kratom addicts in my time... probably more. I'm getting fuckin old here guys.

The active constituent of Kratom is a family of alkaloids known as Mitragynine(s). The two primary alkaloids that produce Mu receptor agonism are the eponymous Mitragynine and 7-Hydroxymitragynine or 7-OH colloquially. Mitragynine is more plentiful by volume, but 7-OH is a more potent overall chemical, so both play a significant role in the totality of effects produced by the substance.

After reading and talking with a lot of people over the course of years, I'm very tempted to say that Kratom and therefore Mitragynine are little more than your garden variety Opioid(s). I do believe that as a plant, there is possibly more at work than just said agonism, though I feel that this auxilliary stuff would be of modest relevance to the person using them.

I've yet to see anything that convinces me that Kratom is anything but a somewhat exotic (to us) Opioid that has yet to be made illegal, thereby filling a vacuum in the market for folks who don't wish to use Fentanyl or are respected citizens who couldn't afford to be caught with hard drugs. We all want to believe that our Opioid habit is something other than what it is. I've been there.

To answer OP's question directly:

Kratom isn't going to "increase your tolerance" gram for gram more than any other Opioid, you feel me? We are doing apples to apples accounting here. We are just dealing with apples of differing potencies.

Don't look at it as, "this is how addicted I am to Tramadol, but this is how addicted I am to Fentanyl; it's all just about your total number of Morphine Milligram Equivalents or MME. This is the system they will use in hospital and medical clinics to standardize a person's total Opioid intake.

The only problem is, we have not even an educated guess at determining the strength of your Kratom and even more so for the Fentanyl you're using.

With that being said, Kratom didn't increase your tolerance per se, you just took more Opioids and that's what raised your tolerance. Which Opioid it was has little importance relative to your total number of MME's. I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions guys.

I have read it before, but good summary. I do take Kratom regularly and have been doing so for quite a while. I have not moved up from 5 grams once a day (in the evening) for a long long time. My view is, as long as I stay out of the actual opiods I will be OK. The last time I took any (exactly 7 days ago) I didn't take much and only because my back was hurting. I am not taking any tomorrow.

I do take your posts seriously and that is why I am so terrified of opiod addiction and use them so infrequently.
 
It is quite amazing how good kratoms safety profile is. There are maybe a few hundred cases documented where people died and the large majority of cases had a deadly cocktail of drugs in their system that explained the deaths without kratom. That makes kratom magnitudes more safe than aspirin for example. There is virtually no breathing depression involved. I have to agree, it is an opioid but a pretty unique one. Not only is it physically safe, it also is kinda self limiting in its addiction potential because of its ceiling effect. Then it is very suitable for a pretty relaxed tapering regime which can be remarkably short compared to other substitutes like methadone or suboxone. If kratom gets banned this will remove a big asset in the opioid epidemic.


Yes Kratom works great for me. I have a ton of aches and pains as I get older and it also gives me a mild mood boost. Never get anything close to high though.
 
I don't like seeing people addicted to any Opioids. However, Western Medicine has totally fucked up pain management for one and all. This leaves the majority of people in a position of either suffering or adopting a DIY philosophy to their pain management.

It's a familiar story now in multiple generations, the patient prescribed Opioids who is cut off for whatever reason only to seek out analgesia from the black market. In the past, this was buying Oxycontin, then it was buying Heroin, then that became Fentanyl and now we're in the Tranq/Non-Tranq Fentanyl era in which it seems both forms are available. To a lesser extent, Nitazenes and other similarly potent Opioids are known to be in the market.

My point is, Kratom is obviously the lesser of two evils if we're comparing to the most-commonly available street Opioid, Fentanyl. It's legal in most jurisdictions, it's relatively mild and it is a fully-natural plant-based medicine. A person who becomes totally saturated with Kratom is going to be far easier to step down than someone who is smoking 10 bags of Fentanyl a day.

I'm glad that we have Kratom as an option. In my experience, a person in pain is more liable to take Fentanyl as opposed to enduring the pain endlessly. Kratom can be an option for everyone not looking to ride the train all the way to oblivion with their Opioid habits.
 
It would be nice if there was an entry for Kratom on the equivalency chart for comparing pharmaceutical opioids, and more studies of it in general. I'm sure the main effects come from the mitro and oh-7, but it really feels like there are some other subtle effects unlike conventional opioids. And if there are these effects, it would be nice to understand the risks and interactions better.
 
Kratom is relatively harmless imo it's on par with codeine addiction , sure subjectively it might be hard to kick but it's a total breeze compared to kicking methadone.
 
Kratom is relatively harmless imo it's on par with codeine addiction , sure subjectively it might be hard to kick but it's a total breeze compared to kicking methadone.
I've gone 2 day with no kratom or opioids. Did go out dancing with the wife last night and took 80% of a hit of ecstasy.

Got plenty of sleep so feel good tonight.
 
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