how much more codeine from re-washing cwe

[Anon54]

I start with 100mL of water, & I finish with 100mL of water after cwe.
so ud assume id have all the codeine, right? well i dont know

I did my usual cwe
dissolved pills in cold water, stired, filter once through a hanky (squeezing every last drop) into a bowl & finally doing a 2nd filter with coffee filter.

but this time i unwrapped the hanky which was my first filter & did cwe again on the APAP i would usually throw away.

I compared the taste of both by sipping the 1st sample, than the 2nd.
the first extrations taste was more than twice as strong as the "re-wash" cwe.

it just makes me wonder actually how much codeine ppl are wasting during cwe & what really is the best method to get as close to %100 as possible. I suppose the easiezst way would to just do CWE on 600mg of codeine containing pills.

& BTW has anyone got proof of the so called ceiling codeine dose. I can guarentee when i drink more than 450mg it is stronger.

Ive heard on BL of ppl drinking 4g of codeine.

im immune to the side effects of 400mg of codeine. i dont get the itchiness or red eyes or feeling like throwing up. I could easily down 2g of codeine. but i wouldnt try it unless it been proven to be safe.

 

[Justin Sane 53]

Codeine itself is relatively safe, it's the mixer (usually APAP) that you need to worry about. I find that most CWEs are very wasteful, so I would assume you're probably not actually getting 400 mg when you take a 400 mg dose. I suppose you could do a CWE on 600 mg of codeine, but it would probably be cheaper and less toxic to just take a stronger painkiller in the first place.

The ceiling dose is usually 400, but if you have an incredibly fast metabolism, it could theoretically be much higher. I'll search the webs a bit and see if I find anything

Try reading this first, though: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...eine-phosphate?highlight=codeine+ceiling+dose

Edit: From what i can find, the theory is this: Codeine inhibits the enzyme that metabolizes it (CYP2D6) Fact

This means that in sufficiently large doses i.e. over 400mg, the CYP2D6 enzyme will be so inhibited it will no longer be able to turn codeine into morphine myth

Actually id like to keep this bumped, there actually might be a much higher ceiling dose than we thought! Im going to test this sometime later this month

 

[Jabberwocky]

a second wash isn't necessary if you've done a bang job with your initial CWE; you'll only be recovering miniscule amounts which may have not absorbed with the first wash; very negligible amounts. i was once one who'd wash out the remnants but soon realised it's a fruitless exercise.

but whatever floats ya boatf

 

[Anon54]

yeah the 2nd wash didnt taste very strong. but still about 1/3 of the original. not worth the effort. u just gotta stir really well before u opour it through the filter. make sure its a filter ya can squeeze very tight like hanky to get every last drop out.

Im more interested in so so called ceiling dose. I did cew on a pack of panadeine forte which equals 600mg. & was stronger than 400mg. maybe thats because the exta 200mg was making up for the codeine loss.

anyways. Anyone game to drink 1g or more of codeine to really test out the ceiling dose theory?

 

[sekio]

Re-washing codeine pills is probably not worth it, the 2nd and later washes would be much richer in APAP. (which is what you're removing in the 1st place).

If you do HUGE coldwater extractions and follow up with an acid/base extraction it might be worthwhile to do multiple washes. But if you're simply doing a CWE and drinking it I would stick with a single dose.

Codeine's ceiling effect is well documented (well, the opioid ceiling effect). It's not 400mg as a hard limit in all people, it can definitely be higher. But it does exist. I wouldn't reccomend taking more than 600mg codeine - it's a pretty powerful histamine releaser and you could get really uncomforatbly itchy if you do huge doses.

 

[Justin Sane 53]

^^ could you give us links that show this? And is the ceiling dose caused by codeine inhibiting the same enzyme that metabolizes it?

 

[sekio]

The "ceiling effect" is from the enzyme that metabolizes codeine to morphine (CYP2D6) becoming saturated - i.e. all of that enzyme in your liver is busy metabolizing codeine. Your body has a hard limit on how much codeine can be converted into morphine (per hour). Certain people of different genetic backgrounds may be efficient, others who lack the enzyme may find codeine less effective.

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=codeine+enzyme+&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0,5&as_ylo=&as_vis=1

(If you're talking about links regarding the efficiency of doing a second wash, I have none. The mere fact that APAP is slightly soluble in cold water (whereas codeine salts are very soluble) leads me to believe most of the codeine would be extracted in the first 2 washes. Some APAP would be extracted too but as you extract the more water soluble compounds, future washes still have the same % of the slightly soluble impurity (APAP)... so it piles up, defeating your purpose of washing it out in the first place!)

 

[Justin Sane 53]

Ah, that's what I thought. I also just noticed the citation needed next to the claim that there is no ceiling dose on wiki.

 

[Mugz]

Also another point to mention, it is not advised to squeeze the water through the filter, just leads to more APAP getting through too, be patient and let it drip through slowly, or you risk getting your water filled with dangerous amounts of APAP