its420time
Bluelighter
I have a bunch codeine pills that are 50mg codeine and nothing else except fillers of course, but my question is how much codeine would be too much?? Is 400mg to 500mg safe?
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
How much is too much?
- Thread starter its420time
- Start date
Well, if you've never taken codeine before, I'd recommend 150mg-200mg to start off with. 300mg is about as high as you should go "safely". You can take higher doses than that, but you are endangering yourself. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the LD-50 of codeine around 800mg depending on the person?
fairnymph
Ex-Bluelighter
Medically speaking, the maximum daily dosage is 360 mg. In general, though, even this is considered a fairly high dose.
I have taken as much as 900 mg codeine in an 8 hour period (for severe pain).
The minimum lethal dose is generally considered to be 800 mg.
I would say, if you have taken codeine before and seem to have a normal sensitivity to it, that 400-500 mg would be a relatively safe dose. Of course, if you have unpleasant effects with a high dose like this, lower you dose next time...a codeine OD is not fun as it involves violent convulsions.
I have taken as much as 900 mg codeine in an 8 hour period (for severe pain).
The minimum lethal dose is generally considered to be 800 mg.
I would say, if you have taken codeine before and seem to have a normal sensitivity to it, that 400-500 mg would be a relatively safe dose. Of course, if you have unpleasant effects with a high dose like this, lower you dose next time...a codeine OD is not fun as it involves violent convulsions.
zorn
Bluelighter
First, goodkarma, I would say start with 100mg if you've never done it before, then go up to 200, then 300, then 400. I personally enjoy 300-350mg the most (when I have no tolerance) but some people I know get really high off of 100, some take 4-600. But if you're really sensitive, you'll regret going to that high a dose -- terrible itchiness, nausea for sure, maybe swelling and/or abdominal pain.
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What? That's doesn't seem right. But I think I remember seeing this on some random page though a long time ago... Shit, it's one Erowid and Drugtext even now. Hmmm, doesn't seem right to me -- I and many people I know routinely ingest anywhere from 400-600mg codeine at once, and that's with no tolerance -- and even at these doses, there's not much in the way of ill effects, just itchniness. I can't imagine the LD50 being that low!
From the <URL=http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/codeine.htm>Poisons Information Monograph<URL>, the rat LD50s are 54mg/kg IV and 266mg/kg subq. For a light (50kg, 120lb) human, that's almost 3 grams IV or 13 grams eaten. Even with interspecies scaling, that's 1.1g IV and 5.6g eaten. And for a larger person the doses would be bigger.
Looking at clinical data (this is roundabout alas, couldn't find nice papers) it looks like the toxic levels of codeine found in overdosed humans ranged from 2-8 mg/L[1] and 22 mg/L[2]. The volume of distribution of codeine in man is 5.1 L/kg[3]. Blood levels must also be adjusted by oral bioavaibility, ~40%. There's also the possibility of posttoxicity metabolism, but I'm not even gonna worry about that (it pushes the numbers higher.)
That gives for a 50kg adult 1.2 to 5g, 14g. For an 80kg adult, 2 to 8g, 20g. These are much higher than the Erowid values.
It would be great if someone could find any good authoritative/respectable medical references on this. But at this point, based both on personal experience and journal research, I'd say the minimum overdose range is ~1 gram for MOST people and probably the LD50 is closer to 5 grams.
[1] Gerostamoulos J, Burke MP, Drummer OH. (1996) Involvement of codeine in drug-related deaths. Am J Forensic Med Pathol 17:327-335.
[2] Kintz P, Tracqui A, Mangin P. (1991) Codeine concentrations in human samples in a case of fatal ingestion. Int J Legal Med 104:177-178.
[3] Findlay JW, Butz RF, Welch RM. (1977) Codeine kinetics as determined by radioimmunoassay. Clin Pharmacol Ther 22:439-446.
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What? That's doesn't seem right. But I think I remember seeing this on some random page though a long time ago... Shit, it's one Erowid and Drugtext even now. Hmmm, doesn't seem right to me -- I and many people I know routinely ingest anywhere from 400-600mg codeine at once, and that's with no tolerance -- and even at these doses, there's not much in the way of ill effects, just itchniness. I can't imagine the LD50 being that low!
From the <URL=http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/codeine.htm>Poisons Information Monograph<URL>, the rat LD50s are 54mg/kg IV and 266mg/kg subq. For a light (50kg, 120lb) human, that's almost 3 grams IV or 13 grams eaten. Even with interspecies scaling, that's 1.1g IV and 5.6g eaten. And for a larger person the doses would be bigger.
Looking at clinical data (this is roundabout alas, couldn't find nice papers) it looks like the toxic levels of codeine found in overdosed humans ranged from 2-8 mg/L[1] and 22 mg/L[2]. The volume of distribution of codeine in man is 5.1 L/kg[3]. Blood levels must also be adjusted by oral bioavaibility, ~40%. There's also the possibility of posttoxicity metabolism, but I'm not even gonna worry about that (it pushes the numbers higher.)
That gives for a 50kg adult 1.2 to 5g, 14g. For an 80kg adult, 2 to 8g, 20g. These are much higher than the Erowid values.It would be great if someone could find any good authoritative/respectable medical references on this. But at this point, based both on personal experience and journal research, I'd say the minimum overdose range is ~1 gram for MOST people and probably the LD50 is closer to 5 grams.
[1] Gerostamoulos J, Burke MP, Drummer OH. (1996) Involvement of codeine in drug-related deaths. Am J Forensic Med Pathol 17:327-335.
[2] Kintz P, Tracqui A, Mangin P. (1991) Codeine concentrations in human samples in a case of fatal ingestion. Int J Legal Med 104:177-178.
[3] Findlay JW, Butz RF, Welch RM. (1977) Codeine kinetics as determined by radioimmunoassay. Clin Pharmacol Ther 22:439-446.
its420time
Bluelighter
thanks for all the advice. I took 350mg yesterday and it was pretty nice! I don't know why everyone bashes codeine so much? Its def not oxy, but its alright.
Yah if it is just codeine and fillers 400-500mg should be safe. If you aren't alergic to it it is really hard to OD on codeine (I have taken over 400mg of it at once without a problem...that may have even been without a tolerance).
The bitch about codeine is that it levels out. You just can't get as high on codeine as you can on h.
In fact the OD symptoms for codeine aren't really the same as for the other opiates. My guess (and this is just a guess) is that any death is associated with some essentially non-opiate mechanism because otherwise you could get heroin similar highs (I mean based on zorns estimate the OD range is similar to the OD range for dxm codeines steroisomer which doesn't have opiate activity).
In fact now I am curious if you take ~1g of codeine do you start to get weird dex types effects.
[ 14 May 2002: Message edited by: quale ]
The bitch about codeine is that it levels out. You just can't get as high on codeine as you can on h.
In fact the OD symptoms for codeine aren't really the same as for the other opiates. My guess (and this is just a guess) is that any death is associated with some essentially non-opiate mechanism because otherwise you could get heroin similar highs (I mean based on zorns estimate the OD range is similar to the OD range for dxm codeines steroisomer which doesn't have opiate activity).
In fact now I am curious if you take ~1g of codeine do you start to get weird dex types effects.
[ 14 May 2002: Message edited by: quale ]