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How much does marijuana's appeal hinge on its illegality?

MyDoorsAreOpen

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This is a question I've been pondering for a while, even since before the local legalizations in 2 US states, but I've been thinking about it more and more since then. I've always known that the enjoyment I take in marijuana is intrinsic. That is to say, I enjoy it for the effect itself, not for any external benefit that being a user brings. Specifically, it has no social cache for me; I don't use it just because I seek approval of or membership in crowds that smoke it. Smoking marijuana for me has no ideological component. It has nothing to do with rebellion, disobedience, or assertion of my right to do as I wish with my body. I'm not trying to come off as either chill or badass (and will readily admit I am neither. :p ) Even when I've not been in touch with any other people who've smoked it, and living in places where it's not welcome or popular, I've still smoked it. I'm a spiritual person, but my marijuana use is only peripheral to my spiritual musings; I'm no rastaman or anything similar.

In 2001 I once read a very well written college textbook about the epidemiology of recreational drug use -- I forget the title but many of the facts it presented have stuck with me. If I can find it on Amazon, I'll post the link. One of the more interesting points it made about marijuana is that the pattern of use among Westerners is markedly different from most other cultures with a native tradition of marijuana use. In most nonwestern cultures that condone marijuana, its use -- often frequent, heavy, and lifelong -- is/was confined to a specific class / guild / caste / order / station-in-life, and is largely absent (and not nearly as tolerated) outside this specific subgroup of people. Moreover, membership in these groups was often hereditary or via early training or induction; people did not join these groups in order to have access to marijuana. In the West, by contrast, marijuana use is open to all, and is largely a feature of youth subcultures. According to this textbook, Westerners who begin toking after age 25, continue toking after 35, or toke regularly for more than 10 years are relatively rare. Most stop after most of their friends have stopped, and realize at that point that without the social culture of youthful rebellion surrounding the drug, they could really take it or leave it.

As someone who clearly doesn't fit this pattern, I wonder just how much marijuana's appeal would change if its legality were to become widespread in the Western world. The text I read also stated that no known animals besides humans will self-administer marijuana. I surmise that most humans, also, are not capable of defining the effect of marijuana as intrinsically pleasurable, in and of itself. I have a hunch that many (not nearly all) satisfied tokers' pleasure comes as much from the associations they've formed with that headspace, as from the headspace itself.

If my theory is correct, then I predict in a world of legal marijuana, it will become something of a small niche interest, kind of like the S&M scene -- small and largely secluded from the view of the majority who "just don't get it", something you're either very into or very much not, something you go to special clubs to partake in.

I also predict that some other still-illegal substance will largely take the place of marijuana among rebellious youth subcultures.

Thoughts?
 
If it was legal less young people would bother with it at all, here in the UK the media keeps reporting that cannabis and other drug use is falling in the young and hold that up as success of prohibition.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jan/27/number-of-illegal-drug-users-fall
I think it's probably more like young people see it as a waste of time as far as being rebellious is concerned most of their parents take or have taken illegal drugs, they're sick of hearing about them and why bother with illegal drugs when there are legal highs to experiment on themselves with.

From my own point of view I would like to be able to grow a few plants for myself with no fear of the cops coming round and trashing my new barn conversion. One of my friends got busted, only six plants but they completely ruined his house even ripped parts of his kitchen/bathroom out, trod dog shit all over the carpets and his paperwork that they thrown about the floor, destroyed his interior doors as well.
 
From my own point of view I would like to be able to grow a few plants for myself with no fear of the cops coming round and trashing my new barn conversion. One of my friends got busted, only six plants but they completely ruined his house even ripped parts of his kitchen/bathroom out, trod dog shit all over the carpets and his paperwork that they thrown about the floor, destroyed his interior doors as well.

The cops can and will do this to you, no matter what. You have to sue when they do this, no matter what you were doing.

Cops aren't inherently good people, they can be bullies, and you can't just expect laws to protect you. You have to protect yourself, and if the state illegally does shit to you, no matter how benign or horrific it is, it's up to you to sue.
 
There's a trend. In countries where there is decriminalisation or de facto legalisation usage rates decrease. And they are lower relative to countries where it's more illegal.

Think about it, it makes sense. Cannabis use is higher amongst dumb high school kids who often do it because it fits in with the bad boy image. If it's legal and especially if their parents do it, it's no longer something they can do to rebell because it's boring.

Of course this goes without saying that it is only part of the picture. Not everyone is going to try it just because it's illegal and not everyone is going to continue using it for this reason.
 
According to this textbook, Westerners who begin toking after age 25, continue toking after 35, or toke regularly for more than 10 years are relatively rare. Most stop after most of their friends have stopped, and realize at that point that without the social culture of youthful rebellion surrounding the drug, they could really take it or leave it.

I think there is probably a lot more at play here than just ditching youthful rebellion. As people get older and some or all of their friends stop smoking it is fair to assume that it becomes more difficult for one to obtain, as a result of this it is also probably more expensive, more of a fuck around, less likely to be high quality and you are more likely to be scoring off someone who you have no connection to other than wanting to buy weed off them. If you combine this with the fact that as people get older they get more responsibilities, like progressing in their career, settling down with a partner who potentially disapproves of cannabis use and having children. All of these give someone a lot more to lose if they are caught breaking the law by smoking weed. I think for a lot of people the risk versus reward factor isn't really worth it and that is why they probably stop smoking eventually. To me atleast, that is a lot more logical than the thought that millions of people spend years of their life regularly engaging in an activity that they derive no gratification from other than some sense of rebellion.

I definately agree there is an element who are drawn to try marijuana or overuse it because of the image that they associate with it, and I do believe if/when cannabis is legalised then its overall use (particularly amongst youths) will drop. I really think your prediction about cannabis becoming a small niche interest is way off. People have been using this plant for thousands of years and will continue to do so, it has practically been legal in California for years and from everything I have read and heard it has only got more popular as a result. I can't seriously picture a world where people could legally grow, purchase and smoke cannabis for recreational purposes where atleast 15-20% of the population wasn't smoking relatively often. You have to consider as well, there might be a lot of people who smoke it because its illegal but there are also those who DON'T smoke it because it is illegal (just look how popular synthetic cannabanoids have become in recent years), if it became legal then a lot of these people are going to try it out.
 
I don't see my use as being connected to its legality in any way. I'd use cannabis when I want to no matter if it was illegal.

It may have something to do with SOME people's use initiation, but I think that's mainly for just TRYING it, not for chronic use. Not for the daily habit that many cannabis users experience.

It simply helps some people, in myriad ways. If they try it (again, perhaps trying it out might be influenced by legality), and it helps/benefits them (in whatever way), they'll keep using it. If it doesn't ameliorate anything at all, then, no, they don't keep smoking it.

I just can't visualize people using cannabis BECAUSE it is illegal. I mean, really? Who does things solely because they are illegal things? Using in spite of legality, but certainly not using because of legality.

Also, I agree with Drug_Mentor, this stuff has been used forever. In fact, the oldest evidence of agriculture, in China, is of cannabis cultivation (for diet, as the seeds are good for you; for fibre, as the plant makes good rope/fabric; and for medicinal/psychoactive uses, for which it is pleasant and enjoyable). People will ALWAYS use cannabis, without regard to or influence from the legality (at least in general), until something comes along to replace it. I don't see that happening soon.
 
I think with the increase in vaporizing technology usage will actually increase as it becomes healthier to ingest

If they can mass produce e-cigs but with THC instead of Nicotine I bet every other kid would want one
 
The appeal to cannabis, as much as the appeal for anything different, won't necessarily lie in its legality perse , but in the degree of acceptance given by our peers and our strength of will as individuals to press on in our convictions and personal beliefs; even when said hobbies are socially unacceptable(which allows for these ideas to be thought up and argued over in the first place).
 
I think I used to do it because of this.

Weed is becoming more accepted, however. In my opinion even five years ago it would've mostly been not ok to post about it on facebook or text about it. Now I hear/see people doing it all the time.
 
^^I agree w/ captain H. I think concentrates are the future of blazing.
That being said, I think that most if not all stoners do not blaze due to any social stigma or any of that shit. Most stoners keep blazing either because they truly believe in the medicinal benefits of cannabis (like myself) or because they believe that they need it everyday (also like myself, lol).
However, I think that illegality does lead to more first-time users and younger users of cannabis. Being a little older now, I use cannabis not only cuz I love it but also because it helps with my appetite, anxiety, etc.
I don't remember exactly why I smoked the first time ever, but I would say it was a combination of looking up to my brother (who happened to smoke alot of pot), but also because I was a young kid that didnt want to be told what and what not I could do.
I am very interested to see the numbers that come out in Colorado over the next 10 years related to first time users, overall number of users, etc. Should be interesting.
 
It's legal where I live. I don't put substances in my body because I want to be a rebel, I do it because I enjoy the way they make me feel.
 
"How much does marijuana's appeal hinge on its illegality?"

i would love for it to become legal where i live so that i could use it without hassle. in general i have a strong dislike for drug dealers and have no room for them in my life. not even for a few minutes. if i could buy it off of amazon that would be ideal. i would also go to a specialized pot store. growing plants would be fun but i wouldn't want my house to smell like growing bud even if it was legal.

while i want it legalized i don't understand how it being legal lowers youth use. i would think that it being legal would increase it's use among all groups because there would be no fear of getting in trouble. i know that lots of older people would smoke or start smoking again. lots of people love it but the legal situation is insane.

i really hope it becomes legal so me and other responsible adults can enjoy it recreationally and as medicine(which is of course more important).
 
I honestly prefer the glass I use for extracts. %)

ok but for every one of you, drug connoisseur, there's a couple thousand who don't want to learn about it they just want to buy something quick and simple.

Weed E-cig bro, im telling you

pardon my general description of that, im sure some e-cig fanatic is gonna point out all the different kinds and varieties whatever you know what im saying

id invest in a product like that, little 5 dollar non-rechargable weed e-cigs

call em Vapeys are something
 
Everyone I know who smokes started in their mid to late teens for the most part. Those who quit stopped in the mid to late 20's and I do think, for them, it was part of the youth culture they took part in. Not necessarily "rebellion", but just unique and original individuals who didn't care what people thought of them either way. Now as an adult, my current group of friends, who I met individually before we became a group, all smoke weed. Their ages vary from 30-56 and they all have different reasons for smoking.

In the winter my use increases a bit because I find it helps to offset some S.A.D. and boredom, but generally I smoke pot because of its spiritual and creative enhancements. Most people in my group are artist types so it's a theme. I've met a lot of people who believe that pot is a spiritual gateway medicine and I count myself among those people. If your intention is to do deep inner work with this plant then you can accomplish a lot.

There are other sub-cultures aside from the rebellious one who value pot. The rebellion sub-culture probably has links to pot's illegality, but there are other sub-cutures and demographics for whom its legal status will never matter.

I have also met a lot of people for whom pot was a phase and they rarely smoke now, if at all. I would even say some have become downright conservative in their views of it. My use has become a lot more responsible than it used to be, but the only way I would quit for good is if some research surfaced that it does brain damage or something along those lines.
 
vape pens exist like that in california. Also, I have come across e-cig THC cartridges compatible with blu vaporizer cigarettes (which can be bought online anywhere). It would be unrealistic to only charge $5 for a cartridge, even if it is disposable.I believe i've come across cartridges that you can buy for about 20, maybe $30.
 
I definitely think there are people that smoke to spite authority but I doubt they make up any significant portion of cannabis users. I think most people that smoke initially do so for social reasons then either continue because they like its effects, or only smoke socially(or not at all). I'd guess that cannabis being illegal actually turns more people away from it than the illegality attracts. Though both of those groups are probably relatively small compared to the overall number of people that partake so I don't it becoming legal will cause a significant increase or decrease in its overall use but who knows I'm only speculating.
 
This That is to say, I enjoy it for the itself, not for any external benefit that being a user brings.
I enjoy the psychotropic effect as well, but I also like that it's a neuroprotective antioxidant and an anti-inflammatory.

I also enjoy the aesthetic qualities, the aromas etc

but there are also those who DON'T smoke it because it is illegal (just look how popular synthetic cannabanoids have become in recent years), if it became legal then a lot of these people are going to try it out.
This.
 
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