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Opioids How much does kratom help opiate withdrawal?

I definitely think it's worth noting that I was using opioids and Kratom at the same time virtually... so I was already physically/mentally dependent on the Kratom while my opioid use was spiraling out of control.

So maybe the former Kratom dependency made the body just adjust to Kratom all over again and forego the opioids.. I don't know. This red vein Kratom has me absolutely FLOORED... I don't even think about oxy while I'm on this quality of Kratom. At this point I just feel a little bit lethargic still and there's a robotic feeling lingering over me that people would call anhedonia. My feel good chemicals are still developing imo.
 
Xorkoth said:
Kratom is an opioid, mitragynine and especially 7-HO-mitragynine are delta and mu opioid agonists, though weaker than traditional opiates. So you're literally taking another opioid to help with withdrawal. As such, it's very easy to justt switch your addiction to kratom. While kratom withdrawals are less severe than other opiates, they are still no walk in the park. If you have never been dependent on kratom before, you can get away with 5-7 days taking it a few times a day and probably avoid developing a dependence on kratom. But be careful. People selling kratom and the recovery industry try to paint it as a harmless non-addictive herb but it is not, it is certainly addictive. I got into opiates with kratom, I used it 4-5 times a day for a number of years and eventually it got to where every 5 hours after dosing I would start withdrawing. It was misery.

Granted, if you're coming off strong opiates, kratom addiction is preferable and easier to get through. But make no mistake, it is not some magic bullet, it is an opioid.
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Amen!!
Thank you for posting this, every time I try to tell someone that Kratom can be addictive, I get the "you just want it to be banned like all the other drugs and don't want people to get help with it!" I used it daily for many months and started to realize I was waking up sick every morning until I dosed some. I've kicked several types of opiates, and Kratom was no joke. It was just about the same, minus the diarrhea. I was desperate, and found a clinic here that agreed to treat me with buprenorphine/naloxone successfully; now I really want to get off the bup. Vicious circle, but I guess that's what I do with drugs, take them excessively and deal with the consequences later. Cheers
 
Yeah, kratom withdrawal from heavy use is for sure opiate withdrawal and can be very severe. I found it was missing the deep sickness element, but has terrible depression and anxiety and the restlessness is worse than any other opiate I've withdrawn from, truly it was hell. Also it lasts so short that with heavy dependence you're waking up in the middle of the night in withdrawal. I certainly think it's valuable as, like I said, it sure beats IV heroin addiction, for example, or pill addiction, because it's cheap, impossible to OD on, and legal. But make no mistake, it is an opioid and I think a lot in the recovery industry push it as some harmless miracle cure and gloss over the fact that it's an addictive opioid, too.
 
Xorkoth said:
I think a lot in the recovery industry push it as some harmless miracle cure and gloss over the fact that it's an addictive opioid, too.
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OK. It's a drug.
But this is good publicity, no?
Lets keep it legal. It kinda is a miracle *drug, IMO and would love to see it sold otc in a potent and regulated pill form. :) 'Specially with all the accidental death OD from foreign substances.
 
Oh absolutely it should be kept legal. It still provides great harm reduction in helping to allow people to get out of a terrible cycle of addiction and crime. I'd far rather be addicted to kratom than to hard opiates. I just want the recovery industry to be honest and not allow people to think it's harmless with no consequences.

But I get your angle of it's better publicity to talk about it like it's a harmless miracle cure to avoid it getting scheduled.
 
It's already too late I'm screwed. If I were to stop taking right now without proper planning it would probably feel like withdrawing from 100 (if not a lot more) milligrams of oxy cold turkey and I'm trying to avoid that sensation
 
yeah im struggling to get below 40 grams a day... usually end up taking 50-70 grams in a 24hr period.

the withdrawal hits hard and fast.... like 6 hours after dosing it starts... by 12 hours i'm quite sick... by 16hrs it is definitely very similar to coming off 100mg/oxy daily, but with more mental anguish since it is easily obtainable. i have yet to go longer without a dose. been using just over a year because im on probation and they dont test for kratom. but it was a huge mistake getting hooked on this crap. ive withdrawn from pretty much every opiate you can name, cold turkeyd a 5 year poppy seed tea addiction in jail, so i stupidly thought "who cares, kratom barely gets me high but its better then nothing so i'm sure the withdrawal can't be that bad"... make no mistake, if you get carried away you pay the piper. sucks a drug with such benign efffects causes such extreme withdrawal.

i feel like i post this a lot here, but it might be because i didnt see much negative reports of kratom wd anywhere before i started using heavy. those people that say its not that bad must have kept their habit at a few grams a day. at my level of use i would call the wd "severe". i suppose for some strong minded folks cutting a gram a day works painlessly but i simply do not have the will power to get below 40g/daily.

it sucks. tread lightly. harm reduction, ya know.
 
Thanks for posting that, I used to take that much kratom, but for 6 years on end, and the withdrawal was horrid. Worst RLS (not just legs, it was restless entire body) of any opiate withdrawal. The only thing easier about it at that heavy a usage is you don't throw up constantly and feel like you have the flu, it's different. And it lasts pretty short (like 5 days of acute w/d) But the restless body was absolute hell, I can't even describe. I remember laying away all night thrashing my arms and legs and even head so I didn't get driven crazy... no sleep for the entire withdrawal, no matter what. I would eventually just start punching my legs as hard as I could for a good 30 seconds on end, tio the point my legs would be covered in bruises... this was so my legs would go numb and not feel the horrible need to [stretch and thrash for 60 seconds... then it would come back. I tried living in the shower but the hot water runs out. Hot showers are the only thing that helps.

And yeah I'd dose at midnight, go to bed, and wake up like clockwork at 5:30am, in withdrawal, and have to take more just to finish sleeping. No joke indeed.
 
Xorkoth said:
Thanks for posting that, I used to take that much kratom, but for 6 years on end, and the withdrawal was horrid. Worst RLS (not just legs, it was restless entire body) of any opiate withdrawal. The only thing easier about it at that heavy a usage is you don't throw up constantly and feel like you have the flu, it's different. And it lasts pretty short (like 5 days of acute w/d) But the restless body was absolute hell, I can't even describe. I remember laying away all night thrashing my arms and legs and even head so I didn't get driven crazy... no sleep for the entire withdrawal, no matter what. I would eventually just start punching my legs as hard as I could for a good 30 seconds on end, tio the point my legs would be covered in bruises... this was so my legs would go numb and not feel the horrible need to [stretch and thrash for 60 seconds... then it would come back. I tried living in the shower but the hot water runs out. Hot showers are the only thing that helps.

And yeah I'd dose at midnight, go to bed, and wake up like clockwork at 5:30am, in withdrawal, and have to take more just to finish sleeping. No joke indeed.
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You nailed it. RLS seems to be particularly the worst for kratom among all the opies. I wonder if there's a way to scientifically point out why that is?

Did sleep aids not work to zonk you out during those awful nights? First time I went through kratom withdrawal it was so delayed... I thought I wasn't even going to withdraw (lol). All the sudden I go to sleep and am decimated by restless legs and arms thrashing about. I caved in the morning and immediately bought more kratom. Are you still on kratom now by the way? 6 years is quite a long time so I'd imagine the duration of your use drastically made it worse. For sure the withdrawal is no joke but the shorter half life does make it more brief (for most). I also find that there isn't a crippling depression component behind kratom wd as well for me at least. Others might report the opposite.
 
Nope, though granted, I did not have etizolam at the time. Etizolam knocked me out during some recent (relatively minor) opiate w/d recently. The restlessness was aggravating but nowhere near my intense kratom w/d of the past. In those days I would take various OTC sleep aids, nothing worked at all. I always caved eventually after about day 5 with no sleep, I felt insane and would dose just to sleep one night... wash, rinse, repeat.
 
I wonder if it would be a good idea to take just a little bit before sleeping then so the RLS does not keep you up at night. By far the worst symptom of kratom wd.
 
I'm thankful for kratom because it got me off subutex, but now I'm going through the same shit with kratom. A few days ago I decided to take a day off and after 12 hours I was praying for death. I lasted 24 hours before I couldn't handle it anymore and dosed 4g. I've cut down significantly though, only 4g at a time 2-3x a day instead of recklessly dosing 6-10g 5 or 6 times a day out of boredom.
 
devilsgospel said:
I'm thankful for kratom because it got me off subutex, but now I'm going through the same shit with kratom. A few days ago I decided to take a day off and after 12 hours I was praying for death. I lasted 24 hours before I couldn't handle it anymore and dosed 4g. I've cut down significantly though, only 4g at a time 2-3x a day instead of recklessly dosing 6-10g 5 or 6 times a day out of boredom.
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The benefit of kratom (in my experience) is that you can taper down without much misery. With something like subs, if you taper down you're going to feel that crap right away and it's going to be awful.

I think tapering down is way better to do with kratom than going cold turkey. It's still going to suck but it'll suck a lot less. I'm caught in the trap as well. Provided the withdrawal from 15 or so grams daily is not devastating.
 
Xorkoth said:
Kratom is an opioid, mitragynine and especially 7-HO-mitragynine are delta and mu opioid agonists,
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Quick question:
If any substance even interacts with what we have labeled opioid receptors is it an opioid? Even if it has nothing to do with opium? Just has to act like it?
Still cannot wrap my head around kratom an opioid....
Maybe I'm just slow.
devilsgospel said:
4g at a time 2-3x a day
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If you can make it down to like 1.5g 2-3x a day it wont be so rough, ime. Or even 1-1.5g 2 times a day....
But then I have never been over 4-5g at once and if that wouldn't need it for a while; like til the next morning.
I do take it for pain.
 
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PtahTek said:
Quick question:
If any substance even interacts with what we have labeled opioid receptors is it an opioid? Even if it has nothing to do with opium? Just has to act like it?
Still cannot wrap my head around kratom an opioid....
Maybe I'm just slow.

If you can make it down to like 1.5g 2-3x a day it wont be so rough, ime. Or even 1-1.5g 2 times a day....
But then I have never been over 4-5g at once and if that wouldn't need it for a while; like til the next morning.
I do take it for pain.
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Imo kratom is an opiate. It objectively raises tolerance to opioids/heroin/etc. For example, someone eating 20 grams of kratom daily would not overdose on 60 milligrams of oxycodone (without any opioid tolerance at all), while an opiate-naive person would be throwing up/potentially be whooped in worser ways. Of course people don't want to call it that because then the government will freak out along with the sheeples, but it's finally an opiate that you can never overdose on..

It's what everyone's ever wanted in life lol. It helps you get off opioids/heroin by replacing a monstrous addiction with a more benign one. Sure the withdrawal is in some cases just as awful but the fact that it can't kill you or have long-lasting negative adverse health effects is a miracle. And as of right now the fact that it's legal helps many people avoid matters of litigation that can be life-destroying like how one potentially risks facing with heroin. The side effects aren't pleasant though I'll give you that. It doesn't feel as good as opioids/heroin obviously and that makes it harder to stick with it, but Suboxone isn't perfect... some report Suboxone withdrawal being ghastly while others find it super easy to endure. And the dose of subs is so subjective.. because some sub patients are on like 32 milligrams of Suboxone a day while 2 milligrams is more than enough for others. It's a weird topic but subs are a good development imo and so is kratom. People tend to not like it for pain relief alone, but it's an excellent painkiller personally.
 
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GetMeOutOfThisCRAP said:
... while an opiate-naive person would be throwing up/potentially be whooped in worser ways.
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This reminds me of this chick I worked with wanted to try it... I gave her like 1/2g and she was like that shit feels pretty good... can I get a little more? Sure. Gave her 1g and she got sick, headache and just generally ill. She went home early but I had to assure her she would be fine to eat and take it easy you wont die. Opiate naive. We hung out together one night, did some drinking, weed, blow and it was kinda hot. She got married and had a baby. Cool chick (woman).... Awesome, actually. :)
Oxford:
"a compound resembling opium in addictive properties or physiological effects." Noun
"relating to or denoting opioids."
Adjective
Just looked opioid up and guess it could cover anything we choose if it looks, smells, feels, tastes, sounds, acts or even seems to be opiotic then it is related. Oh, boy, have we fucked ourselves with add ons to words to make umbrella terms to box things up nicely with a big red pretty freakin bow. lol makes me sick.
maybe i am in denial
maybe i do not personally see the relation other than some mild mimicking going on.
it is only a botanical til we terminate it
Thanks for the response, GMOH: It just opened another rabbit hole.... yay 🤪
Coffee contains potent opiate receptor binding activity. ... As its concentration in an average cup of coffee is five times the ED50, these data suggest that drinking coffee may be followed by effects mediated via opiate receptors, as well as effects of caffeine.
What the fu**?????
We are in fact dumb and doomed.
:coffee:

Food, for petes sake?
“If you’re in a program with food that does not stimulate the opioid receptors and gets rid of inflammation, and you’re in an addiction facility, it greatly increases success and reduces the withdrawal and relapse rate,” Kantor says.
 
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Yes, any substance that hits the opioid receptors could be considered an opioid. I would say some substances don't get called opioids though that have some affinity... I think it probably boils down to what system a substance produces most of its effects on. For kratom, that is definitely the opioid system. Kratom is absolutely an opioid, it is cross-tolerant with opioids and produces opioid withdrawal and analgesia.
 
Yeah I agree. Totally an opiate. I was kind of wondering about seed tea randomly today. But maybe it's better to just..... not. It's hard not to fantasize about opiates. I don't know if anyone can not fantasize about them after knowing what they feel like. Portal straight to hell forever right?

It's the same for every drug really, but for opiates it makes the addiction particularly unbearably nasty. You know after a lot of time off how good it would feel with a lower tolerance. It's like it's design is an immortal trap to fuck everyone over haha. The poppy plant is an evil goddess. I assume kratom is a relative plant to the poppy plant? I can't lie though poppy plants are really beautiful visually. You have to respect her looks she's queen.
 
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