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How many of you agree/disagree?

silentcowboy

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
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When your high on psychedelics you can get into these trances where you gaze off into the distance to see objects moving around,
you get so extremely in touch with your soul, your inner being, the central observer, (similar to the hypnosis idea). i think it has something
to do with the opening of the third eye.(described in some meditation type exercises). when connected like this your ego is completely gone, non-existent. you are experiencing your true self in these trances, this is the best effects you can get from psychedelics.
 
i think it has something
to do with the opening of the third eye

Not necessarily, you can have spiritual experiences without your third eye opening although its certainly possible to open your third eye on psychedelics. Anyway, in my opinion psychedelics produce false spiritual experiences. That's not to say they can't still be valuable. They can be extremely valuable, they can change a person's entire life for the better. What I mean by false though is, psychedelics can make you (or jsut about anyone) feel all spiritual and wise and close to God and what not. However, that is just a temporary effect and after you come down, you lose much of that wisdom. Therefore, it can be easy to fool yourself into thinking you're a spiritual person because you use psychedelics and hae all these intense spiritual experiences but in reality, your spiritual development might be stagnating. In other words, I think that when you get the message from psychedelics, then it is time to hang up the phone and find ways to be spiritual that lead to more permanent changes. Traditoanally, the methods for this are meditation, prayer, faith and selfless service to others. And studying spiritual teachings of course. Once I took these things methods seriously, I realized how far superior they were to psychedelics and I stopped tripping.
 
burn out said:
hen it is time to hang up the phone and find ways to be spiritual that lead to more permanent changes. Traditoanally, the methods for this are meditation, prayer, faith and selfless service to others.

Might it be said that that is just hanging up one phone and picking up another? In all, the spiritual awareness comes from within. Certainly action is the thing to do, but just because a man is awakened doesn't mean he will get out of bed, and he may well fall back asleep. What I mean is that I disagree with calling any of it a false experience, just that not all experiences are interpreted in the same way, or lead to the same results.I am reminded of the parable of the sower:

Mark 4:3-8 said:
3 “Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed.
4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.
5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.
6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants, so that they did not bear grain.
8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up, grew and produced a crop, some multiplying thirty, some sixty, some a hundred times.”

(if you people wonder why I persist in biblical quotations, it is because I believe that it is a scripture based on the mystical experience as much as all the Hindu, Taoist, and Buddhist strains of thought psychedelic folk are often drawn to, and the maligning of the religion by such persons is highly misguided, and the lauding of the Eastern traditions equally misguided, if you talked to 98% of their constiuency they would be just as ego-deluded as your average follower of the Abrahamic religions.

The particulars of these sets of myths and dogmas are insubstantial, mere allegory for the ineffable experience. As for people who prefer not to use the language of preexisting codifications of the experience at all, understand that some of us are fond of it. Hear, those that can hear.).
 
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thanks for your input guys, i was in fact coming down from a great shroom trip last night and wrote some things down and decided to post it. ive been reading on this site since i started psychedelics (about 3-4 years ago) and i love it, its great that im able to post an opinion and i am not bashed to hell, rather you guys realize its an opinion and give me yours.
 
Well welcome to Bluelight! :) It's good to see you've finally decided to sign up and get posting, I know I lurked for an awfully long time before I did the same.

Ego death is a wonderful thing and I feel really grateful that psychedelics allow us to experience it as it is the most humbling and fulfilling thing one could ever conceive experiencing. We actually have an Ego Death Thread if you'd wish to discuss it further :)

As for psychedelics opening the "third eye", for me the concept of the "third eye" and ego death are very much linked. Someone who has "opened their third eye" is just someone who has been there, realised the great big joke we're sitting in for all that it is. I think of it as a pure metaphor though rather than a literal concept, I don't see it as some extra sense or anything.

Of course this is just my opinion ;)
 
(if you people wonder why I persist in biblical quotations, it is because I believe that it is a scripture based on the mystical experience as much as all the Hindu, Taoist, and Buddhist strains of thought psychedelic folk are often drawn to, and the maligning of the religion by such persons is highly misguided, and the lauding of the Eastern traditions equally misguided, if you talked to 98% of their constiuency they would be just as ego-deluded as your average follower of the Abrahamic religions.

The particulars of these sets of myths and dogmas are insubstantial, mere allegory for the ineffable experience. As for people who prefer not to use the language of preexisting codifications of the experience at all, understand that some of us are fond of it. Hear, those that can hear.).

Hear! Hear!

Well said :)
 
Can we reach these states of enlightenment without ego death? Is that possible?
 
Might it be said that that is just hanging up one phone and picking up another? In all, the spiritual awareness comes from within. Certainly action is the thing to do, but just because a man is awakened doesn't mean he will get out of bed, and he may well fall back asleep. What I mean is that I disagree with calling any of it a false experience, just that not all experiences are interpreted in the same way, or lead to the same results.I am reminded of the parable of the sower:



(if you people wonder why I persist in biblical quotations, it is because I believe that it is a scripture based on the mystical experience as much as all the Hindu, Taoist, and Buddhist strains of thought psychedelic folk are often drawn to, and the maligning of the religion by such persons is highly misguided, and the lauding of the Eastern traditions equally misguided, if you talked to 98% of their constiuency they would be just as ego-deluded as your average follower of the Abrahamic religions.

The particulars of these sets of myths and dogmas are insubstantial, mere allegory for the ineffable experience. As for people who prefer not to use the language of preexisting codifications of the experience at all, understand that some of us are fond of it. Hear, those that can hear.).

I agree 100% with what youre saying about the Abrahamic relgiions.

As for your claim that prayer/meditation can be looked at as another phone well I am not going debate that point. Instead, I will give you an analogy. So assuming the goal is enlightenment/gnoses/liberation/realization, etc (whatever you wanna call it) then for the sake of analogy lets make it a physical place, say Iceland.

So then, in my view the drugs are like pictures of iceland. They show you where you need to go. This can be very helpful to people who do not know about Iceland as well as people who doubt that Iceland exists, or don't understand why they should want to go to Iceland. However, looking at pictures of iceland will never actually get you to Iceland. For that you must use some sort of actual transportation, such as a boat or an aircraft or something. These would be analogous to prayer and meditation, things which bring about changes in the heart. Do you see what I am saying? I believe that psychedelics show us what is possible but it is up to us to make those possibilities into realities. And to do that, you must employ non drug techniques because no matter how many times I tried (and believe me, I tried thousands of times) a psychedelic drug was never able to produce a lasting enlightenment for me. Nor have I ever heard of anyone, ever, who became enlightened from a drug.

And so what I mean by false experiences, I mean someone who believes they are very spiritual and that enlightenment is just around the corner for them as long as they keep smoking weed, eating acid, shrooms 2c-what have you and ranting about how we are all one. I believe I have the right to call it false because I once was such a person, who believed that these drugs were the key to enlightenment. But I would now say there are no short cuts to spiritual growth. If you want a parable for this one, here you go:


The Parable Of The Wedding Banquet

Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

“Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
“But they paid no attention and went off–one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

“Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.

“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

“For many are invited, but few are chosen.” (Matt 22:1-14)
 
Certainly action is the thing to do, but just because a man is awakened doesn't mean he will get out of bed, and he may well fall back asleep.
(...)
(if you people wonder why I persist in biblical quotations, it is because I believe that it is a scripture based on the mystical experience as much as all the Hindu, Taoist, and Buddhist strains of thought psychedelic folk are often drawn to, and the maligning of the religion by such persons is highly misguided, and the lauding of the Eastern traditions equally misguided, if you talked to 98% of their constiuency they would be just as ego-deluded as your average follower of the Abrahamic religions.

I agree 100% with it. It reminds me of the words of Amit Goswami, who grew up in Indian tradition and writes:

"Most people, lost in the illusion of their ego-separateness and busy in its pursuits, are not motivated to discover the truth themselves. How, then, can the light of the mystic’s realization be shared with these people?

The answer is, by simplifying it. The followers simplify the truth to make it accessible to the average person. Such a person is usually caught up in the demands of daily life. Lacking the time and devotion necessary to understand the subtlety of transcendence, he or she cannot appreciate the importance of direct mystical experience."

Or as in Deuteronomy 18:15-17

15 Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him. 16 This is according to all that you desired of Yahweh your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, "Let me not hear again the voice of Yahweh my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I not die."
17 Yahweh said to me, "They have well said that which they have spoken."


Any religion can make you spiritually develop yourself, but then, both in west and east, most people will stagnate with religion just as they may stagnate with psychedelics.

I'm inclined to think psychedelic drugs, meditation, prayer, they all can lead to the same path, the key point is not the messenger but the spiritual awareness that comes from within.
 
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