Dissociatives How many "acid" psychedelics exist?

[BourbonMac]

I know about nbome, 1p-LSD, 2c-b, but I was under the impression that there were a lot more than just LSD. LSA would count separately right?

 

[DaiBanto]

I know about nbome, 1p-LSD, 2c-b, but I was under the impression that there were a lot more than just LSD. LSA would count separately right?

Better off under the psychedelics banner, no? Get the big things right first.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

How would you define an "acid" psychedelic? It seems like you're including nbomes so is it just things that can fit on blotter? Seems kinda arbitrary, why not just stick with using the classes that already exist like phenethylamines, tryptamines, lysergamides

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Scientifically, there is only one "acid"and that is LSD (Lysergic Acid Diethylamide. The abbreviation LSD is derived from its German name LysergSäureDiethylamid (Lysergic acid diethylamide) (CAS-50-37-3). Lysergide belongs to a family of indole alkylamines that includes numerous substituted tryptamines such as psilocin (found in ‘magic’ mushrooms) and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT). The IUPAC name for LSD is 9,10-didehydro-N,N-diethyl-6-methylergoline-8β-carboxamide. The (R) stereoisomer is more potent than the (S) form.




Molecules like 1p-LSD are LSD analogues. Street names are not scientific names, that's where confusion come in.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Yea there's only 1 "acid" if you ask me

 

[BourbonMac]

Better off under the psychedelics banner, no? Get the big things right first.

Yeah I didn't see it, don't know how but my eyes didn't see that forum. Probably because I was fucked on valium, kava and kratom, vision was splitting. Even then I can't believe I put this in "other" when psychedelics was right above it. Dissociatives are the only flair or whatever for me though, no psychedelic or anything. I feel like there used to be one.

 

[BourbonMac]

Scientifically, there is only one "acid"and that is LSD (Lysergic Acid Diethylamide. The abbreviation LSD is derived from its German name LysergSäureDiethylamid (Lysergic acid diethylamide) (CAS-50-37-3). Lysergide belongs to a family of indole alkylamines that includes numerous substituted tryptamines such as psilocin (found in ‘magic’ mushrooms) and N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT). The IUPAC name for LSD is 9,10-didehydro-N,N-diethyl-6-methylergoline-8β-carboxamide. The (R) stereoisomer is more potent than the (S) form.




Molecules like 1p-LSD are LSD analogues. Street names are not scientific names, that's where confusion come in.

So nbome, 1pLSD, are just liquids that happen to be taken on a blotter? That's the only reason I was curious since people do that with those two, but nbome is often sold as fake acid. 1pLSD I've heard feels very similar to regular LSD if not identical from some people.

Anyway about LSA:

Ergine, also known as d-lysergic acid amide (LSA) and d-lysergamide, is an ergoline alkaloid that occurs in various species of vines of the Convolvulaceae and some species of fungi. So that's really the only acid there would be I guess LSA is precursor LSD so it makes sense

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

So nbome, 1pLSD, are just liquids that happen to be taken on a blotter? That's the only reason I was curious since people do that with those two, but nbome is often sold as fake acid. 1pLSD I've heard feels very similar to regular LSD if not identical from some people.

Anyway about LSA:

Ergine, also known as d-lysergic acid amide (LSA) and d-lysergamide, is an ergoline alkaloid that occurs in various species of vines of the Convolvulaceae and some species of fungi. So that's really the only acid there would be I guess LSA is precursor LSD so it makes sense

One could mislead other individuals by saying they have LSD when it is actually LSA (Morning Glories) or a Tryptamine (mushrooms) but in fact it is not. What would the actual benefit of misrepresenting what you have other than for the sake of winning an argument on an internet forum?

People deserve to be told the truth when it comes to the sales or sharing of drugs. This is good harm reduction, which is what we try to do on Bluelight.

 

[BourbonMac]

The only reason I brought up nbome is because of how often people end up getting that instead of LSD, and have heard of 1p-LSD sold as LSD. I didn't mention LSA being sold as LSD and have never even heard of such a thing, I was simply asking if that's technically the only other acid and it would appear as yes.

I think I'm being highly misunderstood, I'm not arguing or attempting to sell someone fake LSD, and I'm not a drug dealer in the first place. I'm just genuinely curious if there was actually more than one psychedelic in the form of acid because I know there are tons of research chemicals out there which is a territory I know nothing of.

But seriously, I don't know where you're getting me trying to "win an argument on an internet forum" or if that's even directed to me, because I can't find any way of it making sense to. Maybe my title implied I might be trying to sell some shady fake acid but again, I was just curious. I've only done LSD like twice, my preference is mushrooms but DMT in particular.

And yes I agree on harm reduction, was in no way trying to harm or contribute to harming anyone.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

I took 3 acids last week

 

[Project Will]

I took a few acids last week too, and smoked some base to neutralize it

OP go check out Alexander Shulgin's books PiHKAL and TiKAL. When you ask how many acids, do you mean how many analogs of LSD there are? Or are you referring to the phenethylamines (such as LSD) as opposed to tryptamine (such as mushrooms and dmt)?

 

[BourbonMac]

Nah, I was simply wondering if in the world of research chemicals if there were other psychedelic acids. LSA seems to be the only other but again is the precursor to LSD so it's basically the same

 

[unodelacosa]

I'm just genuinely curious if there was actually more than one psychedelic in the form of acid because I know there are tons of research chemicals out there which is a territory I know nothing of.

You have a few misconceptions, but it's totally understandable and don't worry; I think I can clear up any confusion here. So firstly, when we say "acid" that doesn't mean the drug is a green glowing vat of "acid" like you might see in a movie, video game, or Rick & Morty, you know when they hide in the vat of acid? Ok that's not what LSD is like at all, despite being called acid. In chemistry, an acid is often a white solid crystal. You can buy citric acid at the grocery store or vitamin shop, for example, and you'll discover it's a dry, white powder. LSD, similarly, when pure and dry, forms into a solid crystal that sometimes resembles a powder and sometimes resembles needle-y crystals, depending on factors not worth going into right now.

LSD is so potent, 1 g = 10,000 doses at .1 mg per dose, aka 100 µg (micrograms – a microgram is one-millionth of a gram). Accurately weighing and dosing an individual 100 µg hit is virtually impossible and dangerous since one could easily take too much. For drugs this potent, volumetric dosing is used – it's dissolved in 80% alcohol and either taken as drops of that solution, or it's applied evenly to blotter paper and the alcohol allowed to evaporate. The drug is then embedded within the tiny fibers of the blotter paper – usually a thicker, watercolor paper that's used for its absorbency. This makes the doses much more consistent when dealing with this level of potency.

NBOMe- and NBOH-class drugs are this potent; so are DOx-class drugs like DOM and DOB. Bromo-DragonFLY has this potency, fentanyl and its analogs, too. Some Benzodiazepine drugs are potent enough for blotter, even alprazolam (Xanax). So in the case of benzos and fentanyl opioids, we've left the realm of psychedelics entirely. See what I mean? 2C-B on the other hand requires a dose of ~20 mg, which is way too much powder to have woven into a dose or two of blotter, and no one would want to eat a shit ton of watercolor paper, ya know? Lol

So in other words, don't get hung up on the term "acid", and expand your definition of "acid" to include crystalline solids not just liquids.

In general, "acid psychedelic" indicates a group of drugs called lysergamides that include LSA, LSD, ergotamine, ALD-52, 1x-LSD drugs, ETH-LAD, AL-LAD, nor-LSD, lumi-LSD, etc. What's remarkable is that LSD is manufactured like so: Ergotamine.tartrate → LSA → LSD. The ergotamine is extracted from the fungus that grows on rye. It's called ergot, and it's separated from the rye plant, cultivated and grown in the lab to be robust and full of alkaloidal content, and then said content (read: ergotamine) is extracted with the acid of tartar sauce (I'm not even kidding, tartaric acid is what makes tartar sauce sour). So what I'm saying is acid is a lot less "synthetic" than most people think. Not that it matters much, but I think it's cool that the blueprints to all these deep mind-accessing, exploratory drugs are neatly scripted and woven into the world around us, like so many molecules of LSD woven into the fibers of a hit of blotter paper. Res ipsa loquitur.

 

[BourbonMac]

Thank you! I think I understand what you mean. And yeah I once thought acid was mostly synthetic until realizing how it was made. I'd been avoiding it for years in favor of shrooms, but I want to try LSD again soon because shrooms because uncomfortable. Either because I kept tripping alone or because I'd never really plan out my trips. I never had to with DMT which is my favorite, I combined them a few times and it could turn bad shroom trips good.

I wonder why it seems more people get screwed up from LSD opposed to others? Mostly 50ish years ago at least, I'd probably assume due to the fact that people didn't know how to dose the stuff sometimes, they'd just have the liquid but I know tablets of LSD were common too, usually containing 250ug which in my experience was overwhelming although I'm not sure if that's how much it really was, it's just how much I was told was on the blotter and I was tripping very weirdly, seeing my face change shapes and expressions 100 times a second. I thought it was cool, but a lot of the visuals on it were just plain strange.

Otherwise, I mean, LSD in the late 60s, early 70s was the most commonly used psychedelic. It was the one everyone had to try or use to be hip. I'm sure people took mushrooms plenty too, but you don't hear about "mushroom casualties" like you'd hear of "acid casualties" and I've certainly never heard that term from DMT. I've overused the shit out of it and could probably trip on that 3-4 times a week for the rest of my life honestly. I'm sure the short duration is the only reason this is possible, and the fact that my brain really gets along with it.

 

[unodelacosa]

Thank you! I think I understand what you mean. And yeah I once thought acid was mostly synthetic until realizing how it was made. I'd been avoiding it for years in favor of shrooms,

When you consider the vast distance between an active dose of LSD and the lethal dose (LD₅₀), LSD has a pretty good safety profile, one that's better than mushrooms. Some people like to think shrooms are better because they're natural and acid is synthetic. As I was showing you, it's semi-synthetic, and the story of how Dr. Albert Hofmann discovered it is spiritual stuff to me. At the same time, many strains of P. cubensis mushrooms have been genetically altered through manual selection and breeding. For instance, the strain "Penis envy" would not survive in the wild without human intervention. The caps are too small and its spore distribution suffers accordingly. This is bc they've been bred top produce high amounts of psilocybin & psilocin, et al., while the cap diameters have been neglected. It's not exactly that "natural" anymore itself.

but I want to try LSD again soon because shrooms because uncomfortable. Either because I kept tripping alone or because I'd never really plan out my trips. I never had to with DMT which is my favorite, I combined them a few times and it could turn bad shroom trips good.

I won't take shrooms easily or lightly. I've had my skull cap opened by shrooms, had them scramble up my brains, then put back together and sent on my way, couch-locked for hours staring at the wall at a house party before. Acid doesn't do that to me. YMMV.

I wonder why it seems more people get screwed up from LSD opposed to others? Mostly 50ish years ago at least, I'd probably assume due to the fact that people didn't know how to dose the stuff sometimes,

Don't believe everything you hear. The media sensationalized reports to make LSD sound dangerous. Tim Leary didn't help matters telling college kids, including Harvard students, where he taught, to "drop out, tune in, turn on."

Acid is in my Top 5 favorite drugs, for sure. Shrooms are way down the list.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well I'm not talking about the media exactly. LSD was dangerous around that time because you had Timothy Leary telling everyone to take it and the averages doses were pretty high. Some people did just take way too much and undergo personality changes, like said person in my profile pic, Syd Barrett. Then there was Peter Green, Sky Saxon, Skip Spence who tried to murder his bandmates with an axe, Roky Erikson, Brian Wilson. Mostly musicians got messed up by LSD because that was simply the time where people thought it was totally safe, and it is, but not at the doses that were driving people nuts. Syd Barrett didn't have any conditions that ran in his family, I also don't believe he developed schizophrenia, but one mega high dose changed his personality permanently.

It didn't help he was getting spiked with it often, spikings happened a lot more than people realize in this era. Hawkwind's original guitarist got spiked at Isle of Wight in 1970, had a nervous breakdown and left the band. Half the people who performed at Woodstock got spiked because everything backstage was spiked. The lemonade, even the ice cubes apparently. That's how Pete Townshend said he got spiked anyway, went to make some cold tea and had a horrible time performing.

I'm sure this can happen with shrooms too, but it seems in 1967 in particular, where literally every musician about had tried it and others were pressured, like The Small Faces who weren't doing so well after psychedelic music started getting more popular. Graeme Edge of The Moody Blues and Beatles manager Brian Epstein had brought it to them on orange slices simply to try and boost their creativity, and it sure worked because they started to chart more in both the UK and US. But some people just couldn't get enough of it. Psilocybin was around, DMT was around, but not as much.

Your experience with shrooms I can relate to after having downed an 8th, Lemon TEK a few years ago at the cape. I didn't really plan for the trip at all, I just took it and drank the lemon juice after. Took me months to stop seeing the cartwheeling skeletons, although I had done DMT for a month straight before this which is likely why the HPPD was like that. The 2 times I took acid it felt nothing like shrooms at all. Now shrooms just give me this uncomfortable rushing feeling in my body like I'm on a rollercoaster. DMT does too, but I find that rushing sensation much more enjoyable and comfortable. It's like a rushing massage. Definitely my favorite drug next to plain old weed. I used to like shrooms a lot more but it seems by just doing DMT a couple of times, they never felt the same again

 

[BourbonMac]

One could mislead other individuals by saying they have LSD when it is actually LSA (Morning Glories) or a Tryptamine (mushrooms) but in fact it is not. What would the actual benefit of misrepresenting what you have other than for the sake of winning an argument on an internet forum?

People deserve to be told the truth when it comes to the sales or sharing of drugs. This is good harm reduction, which is what we try to do on Bluelight.

I still don't understand where you could've seen me as being argumentive or going against harm reduction.

 

[Mjäll]

I still don't understand where you could've seen me as being argumentive or going against harm reduction.

Cause he's being argumentative himself.

You do come off as a bit confused, but that's okay.

In general, "acid psychedelic" indicates a group of drugs called lysergamides that include LSA, LSD, ergotamine, ALD-52, 1x-LSD drugs, ETH-LAD, AL-LAD, nor-LSD, lumi-LSD, etc. What's remarkable is that LSD is manufactured like so: Ergotamine.tartrate → LSA → LSD. The ergotamine is extracted from the fungus that grows on rye. It's called ergot, and it's separated from the rye plant, cultivated and grown in the lab to be robust and full of alkaloidal content, and then said content (read: ergotamine) is extracted with the acid of tartar sauce (I'm not even kidding, tartaric acid is what makes tartar sauce sour). So what I'm saying is acid is a lot less "synthetic" than most people think. Not that it matters much, but I think it's cool that the blueprints to all these deep mind-accessing, exploratory drugs are neatly scripted and woven into the world around us, like so many molecules of LSD woven into the fibers of a hit of blotter paper. Res ipsa loquitur.

This is the correct grouping. Only allowing LSD under the umbrella "acid" is too conservative. They are all lysergic acid amides. That's where the name comes from. However, selling the less common ones simply as "acid" might be somewhat disingenuous.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

When you consider the vast distance between an active dose of LSD and the lethal dose (LD₅₀), LSD has a pretty good safety profile, one that's better than mushrooms. Some people like to think shrooms are better because they're natural and acid is synthetic. As I was showing you, it's semi-synthetic, and the story of how Dr. Albert Hofmann discovered it is spiritual stuff to me. At the same time, many strains of P. cubensis mushrooms have been genetically altered through manual selection and breeding. For instance, the strain "Penis envy" would not survive in the wild without human intervention. The caps are too small and its spore distribution suffers accordingly. This is bc they've been bred top produce high amounts of psilocybin & psilocin, et al., while the cap diameters have been neglected. It's not exactly that "natural" anymore itself.


I won't take shrooms easily or lightly. I've had my skull cap opened by shrooms, had them scramble up my brains, then put back together and sent on my way, couch-locked for hours staring at the wall at a house party before. Acid doesn't do that to me. YMMV.


Don't believe everything you hear. The media sensationalized reports to make LSD sound dangerous. Tim Leary didn't help matters telling college kids, including Harvard students, where he taught, to "drop out, tune in, turn on."

Acid is in my Top 5 favorite drugs, for sure. Shrooms are way down the list.

Lol me too - I feel exactly the same way as you do about shrooms and acid

 

[BourbonMac]

I can function on acid better than shrooms in general based on the few times I've taken it, but it can definitely still have me staring at a wall or something, I just have the choice to look at everything melt and breathe. I spent 15 minutes in the bathroom at my friends house the last time I took it just watching my face morph into every emotion possible, then I realized I wasn't moving my face at all, and then once I saw my reflection in my huge ass pupils I was astonished at just that too. Most people would probably get really freaked out but I liked it. Just like I like watching all my skin melt off on DMT or something. DMT visuals are my favorite by far.

With shrooms I feel like I'm enslaved by the psilocybin with uncontrollable visuals that are jarring and won't stop, that was my experience at the cape, they were really strong, and I think I'd rather try some acid again. I know a few people that get that way on shrooms now too and prefer LSD.