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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
How long does vicodin dependence take to develop?
- Thread starter ferinox
- Start date
OxyDillyKing
Bluelighter
That seems kinda strange. For me, i jumped right into IVing opiate pills. I never snorted them. I started on Dilaudid, doing 4-6mg in a shot, and withing 3 weeks i started having withdrawal symptoms when i didnt use. If i had been taking what you have been taking for a month, i wouldve expect to feel a little something after coming off. what is your history with opiates, was the past month your first real experience with them?
Yes. My first 7.5/750 I was totally fucked up. Took two months for my tolerance to get to 15 mg of hydrocodone before I was totally fucked up. After 6 months on needing 30-40 mg to get fucked up I quit and suffered just a little upset stomach, that's it.
dude you can't compare dilaudid to vicodin
dilaudid is stronger than friggin heroin.
OxyDillyKing
Bluelighter
Yes but you can compare how the withdrawals are after your first few weeks on opiates. and is not like 40mg of hydrocodone is a small dose. It is irrelevant how strong the drug is mg for mg. if i only did a few mgs of Dilaudid a day, the comparison matches pretty well. someone taking 40mg hydrocodone a day is probably consuming about the same as someone taking small amounts of dilaudid per day. yes mg for mg, Hydromorphone is way stronger, but that is not important for what we are talking about. in fact, 1mg of Dilaudid IV ( IV was my way of using ) is equal to 3.8 - 7.6mg of oral hydrocodone, which is how the OP was taking his pills, orally. So if 1mg of Dilaudid IV equals on average 5mg of oral hydrocodone, and i was doing 4-6 mg per day in one shot IV, multiple that by 5, and you have an equivalency of 20-30 of oral hydrocodone, so technically the OP was consume even more opiate base then me.
If this is your first time on opiates, and you were only dosing once a day with the 40mg, id say that pretty much explains it. 30 days is right on the threshold for most people of developing a physical habit. another few weeks and i think you would felt considerably more WDs
If this is your first time on opiates, and you were only dosing once a day with the 40mg, id say that pretty much explains it. 30 days is right on the threshold for most people of developing a physical habit. another few weeks and i think you would felt considerably more WDs
Violenza666
Bluelighter
You're pretty lucky. Just stop now... drop down to occasional use. Also I am amazed you were able to keep it at 40mg every day. Were you even getting high?
I wasn't getting high but some anxiolytic effects remained. I decided to stop before I became too dependent on it expecting mild withdrawal symptoms. I feel fine except for the return of the anxiety.
Violenza666
Bluelighter
Anxiety is a WD symptom.
Vicodin is a really stupid way to treat anxiety for the long term. You should try a different route. There are all kinds of medications and techniques for Anxiety.
Vicodin is a really stupid way to treat anxiety for the long term. You should try a different route. There are all kinds of medications and techniques for Anxiety.
I realized it's not a long term solution but it sure was nice to feel alright for a while. I've been on many ssri medications and to many different therapist for many sessions. None of which have been very effective. My financial situation doesn't permit me to continue seeking help from doctor after doctor.
40 mg is a dose that is insanely easy to taper off of if need be. That's why I kept it at that level. I got lucky and didn't even need to taper. Don't say I'm stupid for giving myself temporary relief. Anxiety is only a withdrawal symptom if it is more intense than it previously was.
OxyDillyKing
Bluelighter
Actually i think opiates are just fine for anxiety, and for some people they may even be a better choice then the benzos a psych dr. would perscribe you. for me, benzos do almost nothing to relieve anxiety, they just numb my body to point that i can feel anything, and that makes me feel even more out of control and nervous. but when you are feeling euphoric, or just a little warm and fuzzy from opiates, anxiety is the furthest thing from your mind. and from everything ive heard, coupled with the well known fact that you can actually die from it, i hear benzo withdrawal makes opiate withdrawal look easy.
Thats exactly the way I feel. Doctors are willing to prescribe benzos with an extreme dependence liability, but opiates which provide more relief and a less dangerous withdrawal syndrome are out of the question. Benzos can even induce anxiety disorders long term.
Medically supervised opiate use could be quite useful for depression and anxiety. This would avoid many problems illicit opiate use can cause in their users quality of life while still giving them therapeutic effects. When discontinuing opiate therapy, a slow taper could be used to avoid distressing effects. This will never happen unfortunately. Our only hope is drugs being developed that impact the endogenous opioid system.
Medically supervised opiate use could be quite useful for depression and anxiety. This would avoid many problems illicit opiate use can cause in their users quality of life while still giving them therapeutic effects. When discontinuing opiate therapy, a slow taper could be used to avoid distressing effects. This will never happen unfortunately. Our only hope is drugs being developed that impact the endogenous opioid system.
Jesus I just looked up the benzo withdrawal syndrome on wikipedia. There's a huge list of symptoms way longer than opiate withdrawal and it's also longer lasting than withdrawal from most types of opiates. Yet you can get these prescribed fairly easy compared to opiates. On top of that I don't find them nearly effective enough for anxiety relief. I'll never even consider them as an option.
TheLostBoys
Bluelighter
Doctors, psychiatrists & the whole industry are a joke when they are telling people all these other medicines like benzos & what not are helpful for depression & anxiety. Opiates work so much better for anxiety & depression its a joke & they try to brainwash you into thinking the opposite. It will never happen but it would be awesome if the patient could get the help needed to help them instead of screwing with someones psyche & mental abilities by giving them pills that can give someone suicidal tendencies like Prozac & so on. You guys get the point.........
Violenza666
Bluelighter
I wasn't suggesting Benzos and FUCK SSRI's.. I was only saying that a daily opiate habit for anxiety in the long run is not for the better. It's a slippery slope and don't become a slave to them. I wish you the best of luck. Anxiety is a motherfucker. Sadly I will be on benzos for the rest of my life, I wouldn't want that for anyone. I have one of the worst cases of panic disorder my psychiatrist has ever seen. Now I am doing better and I can't come off of the benzos no matter how hard I try. I have lessened my dose severely but I can't come off of them. It fucking sucks. As I mentioned before I only think benzos are good for certain situations. I don't want anyone to be like me... stuck on benzos for the rest of their life.
There are other options. I beat panic disorder, I still have anxiety but I am no longer having 6 + panic attacks a day and I am no longer agoraphobic. But I am stuck on benzos. For short term use their great... I am tapering my dose down more but anxiety is something I can't live with. So Valium and Klonopin it is for me... for the rest of my fucking life.
But, using vicodin... that habit is not a good one either. I will also be on pain medication for the rest of my life because my back is royally fucked and I am only 30. It fucking sucks. There are more conservative treatments for you. If you want any help feel free to PM me. Once again I wish you the best of luck!
Entheogenic
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2010
- Messages
- 29
Hydrocodone may work to suppress anxiety in the short term but will eventually lose it's effectiveness and the anxiety can come back worse while taking it long term.
Using opiates to treat anxiety can lead to a difficult to break addiction and dependency. While benzos aren't necessarily addictive long term use can lead to a monster of a physical dependency that seems impossible for some people to recover from. The dependency on benzos is more like brain and nervous system damage than a typical chemical dependency. It can be excruciatingly difficult to come off benzos and makes opiate withdrawal seem like a walk in the park. Most doctors would rather keep people on benzos for life than help them get off because tapering can be a long and difficult process. It can take a couple years to safely taper off benzos. Then there is a possibility of the withdrawal syndrome continuing long after tapering is finished.
Modern medicine doesn't have any real pharmaceutical treatments for anxiety yet. They only have drugs that suppress and mask problems and that usually only works for so long before making things worse and causing new problems. If they're going to use drugs to treat things like anxiety then they should be using mind-expanding drugs that help people really connect deeply with themselves and explore the causes of their problems and work to resolve those causes. That along with a good therapist to guide them through the process would be the best treatment in my opinion.
Using opiates to treat anxiety can lead to a difficult to break addiction and dependency. While benzos aren't necessarily addictive long term use can lead to a monster of a physical dependency that seems impossible for some people to recover from. The dependency on benzos is more like brain and nervous system damage than a typical chemical dependency. It can be excruciatingly difficult to come off benzos and makes opiate withdrawal seem like a walk in the park. Most doctors would rather keep people on benzos for life than help them get off because tapering can be a long and difficult process. It can take a couple years to safely taper off benzos. Then there is a possibility of the withdrawal syndrome continuing long after tapering is finished.
Modern medicine doesn't have any real pharmaceutical treatments for anxiety yet. They only have drugs that suppress and mask problems and that usually only works for so long before making things worse and causing new problems. If they're going to use drugs to treat things like anxiety then they should be using mind-expanding drugs that help people really connect deeply with themselves and explore the causes of their problems and work to resolve those causes. That along with a good therapist to guide them through the process would be the best treatment in my opinion.
Amen!
When I was pluggin dillys I started @ 2 mg w/ no tolerance. Within just a couple days I was already @ 10 mg to feel the same effects. Dilaudid tolerance builds up so damn fast to feel the same euphoric effect I had to stop because the shit is waaaaaaaaaay too strong. Then when I got off after a measly week of use I was depressed for a few days.
Hydro even @ 40 mg a day building up to that dose after 6 months I hardly suffered wds except maybe a lil upset stomach.
Dude no way you can effectively compare dilaudid to vicodin in terms of using a similar theraputic dose and expecting the same wd effects. No way imo.
There is promising treatments on the horizon for anxiety on the horizon such as imidazenil but I won't get excited till they are actually in use and proven over a long period of time. In the meantime drugs that are extremely effective for these conditions should not be withheld because they have abuse potential.
I will not be repeating the daily self medication with opiates experiment. That's way too expensive especially when tolerance increases. Being dependent on something sucks anyway. Once a week is much more satisfying and easy on the wallet. I still have hope that someday anxiety will be a distant memory. Until then I'm not willing to spend all my money on drugs that will give me one more thing to worry about.
I will not be repeating the daily self medication with opiates experiment. That's way too expensive especially when tolerance increases. Being dependent on something sucks anyway. Once a week is much more satisfying and easy on the wallet. I still have hope that someday anxiety will be a distant memory. Until then I'm not willing to spend all my money on drugs that will give me one more thing to worry about.