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Lysergamides How long do I wait to try micro-dosing LSD after a full macro-dose trip?

Zapgunn

Zapgunn

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I had a strong, powerful acid trip (about 400ug) 6 days ago. Still have some acid left and was thinking about trying a micro dose before I go out dancing tomorrow night. Should I wait longer since I recently had a full on trip? Do you think it will effect my micro-dose in any way? If so how long should I wait?

Also I plan on doing another macro-dose of 400-450ug at some point in the future... would micro-dosing effect my tolerance and diminish my next trip? How long should I wait after my last micro-dose before a take another macro-dose?
 
I’ve been experimenting with LSD tolerance over the last 2 months. Firstly, what do you mean by micro-dose in this so context. Normally it means a sub-perceptible dose of around 10-15ug. But you make it sound like you want to get a little something out of it. A week after a 400ug trip you could probably still drop a half tab (50ug) or and just get a nice vibe out of thanks to your tolerance. Even a whole tab would probably not feel full strength to you and you’d be fully functional.

Obviously tolerance varies for most people but it’s kind of instant for most people with LSD which is why you can’t redose for much benefit after the first hour or so. It also lasts longer the bigger the trip. I found that, all other things being equal, it took about 4-5 days to be able to retrip again at 100 ug level. However, it took 10-14 days to be able to trip at 4-500 ug level.

Trying any earlier just wastes acid and increases your tolerance period. After getting a couple of whopper trips 10 or so days apart I tried to push the envelope by doubling and tripling my dose and ended up eating 30 tabs in a stupid and vain attempt to get high. Apart from a little bit of body load I felt absolutely zero from them and they were off the same strip as the ones that previously gave me super intense and brilliant trips.

I don’t think sub-perceptible microdoses will significantly effect subsequent mega trips but they could easily take the edge of a 100 ug trip.
 
Would there be an issue with starting right away?
Do microdoses even interact with 5ht2a and 5ht2c. It always seem like the dopamine aspect is what is most dominant in microdoses.
Do we even know what targets microdosing hits compared to macrodosing?
Seeing as K microdosing doesn't really hit NMDA but hits 5ht1a and thus GABA and finally modulates Mu receptors and increases endorphin release.
 
psynce of sound said:
Would there be an issue with starting right away?
Do microdoses even interact with 5ht2a and 5ht2c. It always seem like the dopamine aspect is what is most dominant in microdoses.
Do we even know what targets microdosing hits compared to macrodosing?
Seeing as K microdosing doesn't really hit NMDA but hits 5ht1a and thus GABA and finally modulates Mu receptors and increases endorphin release.
Click to expand...
I have not found an answer to this. However this proposed study looks like it might answer the question. Although they may only be getting as far as brain regions rather than receptor types (I sped read it). The proposal contains quite a lot of interesting background information. https://trialsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13063-021-05243-3
 
psynce of sound said:
Would there be an issue with starting right away?
Do microdoses even interact with 5ht2a and 5ht2c. It always seem like the dopamine aspect is what is most dominant in microdoses.
Do we even know what targets microdosing hits compared to macrodosing?
Seeing as K microdosing doesn't really hit NMDA but hits 5ht1a and thus GABA and finally modulates Mu receptors and increases endorphin release.
Click to expand...
yah, right away wont work,
wait 2 weeks,
the same receptors are involved although fewer of them

while the science on this is still not fully fledged, it appears that the receptors are used and then recycled.
it appears that as the dose meanders its way to the receptors the person gets the effects.
then if more is dosed, fewer effects until no effects are noticed (called tolerance) which, to me at least, is obviously indicative of all the receptors being used up until they are recycled and regrown, which as an organic process seems to take 2 weeks.

mini doses work more frequently than every 2 weeks because they do not use up all the receptors.

microdoses also work every other day because they do not lead to loss of many receptors.

I have not heard of any experiments that examine this part of the highly documented thresholding behavior (i.e. that neurons must recycle spent 5ht receptors) but it seems to be a likely aspect of many kinds of drug receptor binding mechanics in the biology of all cells for any drugs that are not simply pissed out after they are enjoyed (eg cocaine and amanita mushroom - both of which I hear are urinated out and that urine can be drunk for extended effects).
 
Although it does not address the specificity of your question this is probably the most comprehensive paper on LSD tolerance published. It’s actually a book chapter. It contains summaries and analysis of tolerance studies going back to the 60s as well as more recent research on both human and animal models

 
I meant tolerance not threshold,
how sloppy, but I am not editing it out I need to remember that I make mistakes.
@Perforated that was a great paper to see, lots of data pulled together.
I note that they use adapted to indicate that tolerance is achieved, but they do not seem to get to any theories about regenerating 5ht receptors.
 
pupnik said:
I meant tolerance not threshold,
how sloppy, but I am not editing it out I need to remember that I make mistakes.
@Perforated that was a great paper to see, lots of data pulled together.
I note that they use adapted to indicate that tolerance is achieved, but they do not seem to get to any theories about regenerating 5ht receptors.
Click to expand...
Would imaging technology be able to capture regeneration to prove your hypothesis? I’m pretty sure I’ve read papers about anti-psychotics where they mapped re-generation or it might have been brand new growth adding to overall density in specific areas. I forget the details. I have a theory acid fucks your memory!
 
@Perforated
I really do not know what today's lab technologies include but what we want to see is
a) a count of available receptors in an area of tissue before exposure
b) a count of receptors after exposure:
i) after 4 hours
ii) after 8 hours
iii) continue testing for a week

another tack is to determine the genes for receptor proteins and to explore their activation over a similar time period
 
Interesting. I imagined receptors were like 100% reciclable.

It turns out you only use it once and get burn and you need to grown another? Its quite contraintuitive and seemingly wasting. Why would nature do like that?
 
Repeat docking could have caused a widening or modifying of the receptor, literally opening it up to more and more compounds fitting in. So maybe nature defaults to wanting a blank slate.?
 
pupnik said:
@Perforated
I really do not know what today's lab technologies include but what we want to see is
a) a count of available receptors in an area of tissue before exposure
b) a count of receptors after exposure:
i) after 4 hours
ii) after 8 hours
iii) continue testing for a week

another tack is to determine the genes for receptor proteins and to explore their activation over a similar time period
Click to expand...
Definitely doable: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29496153/
 
@Perforated the Receptor fingerprints approach specifically for 5ht class in time series data will indicate the response to binding during tolerance but will not exactly reveal if the receptors are (a) used and rebuilt or (b)used and cleaned and refurbished. but interesting to look at the pictures in this one which cites the article you mention https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31955294/

I think (a) is more likely than (b) due to simplicity in biology i.e. natural gene expression mechanisms for receptor protein replacement are basic, while evolving enzymes that groom receptor proteins is very complex.
 
Zapgunn said:
I had a strong, powerful acid trip (about 400ug) 6 days ago. Still have some acid left and was thinking about trying a micro dose before I go out dancing tomorrow night. Should I wait longer since I recently had a full on trip? Do you think it will effect my micro-dose in any way? If so how long should I wait?

Also I plan on doing another macro-dose of 400-450ug at some point in the future... would micro-dosing effect my tolerance and diminish my next trip? How long should I wait after my last micro-dose before a take another macro-dose?
Click to expand...
I used to wait ~14 days after a hefty dose before micro dosing. That's generally how long it takes before tolerance touches baseline again.
I never took a break between micro doses and full blast trips though.
 
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