How High do you Aim?

[LiquidNebula]

Nowadays i aim to +++ trips or sometimes simply a strong ++,i use psychedelics mainly for fun,i prefer more traditional/gradual paths for evolve myself.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Nowadays i aim to +++ trips or sometimes simply a strong ++,i use psychedelics mainly for fun,i prefer more traditional/gradual paths for evolve myself.

This is what I was aiming for with LSD when I used to take it.

 

[Tromps]

You can rate it in terms of a Shulgin scale (+, ++, etc.)

When I was into psychedelics and dissociatives I would aim for +++.

PLUS FOUR (++++) A rare and precious transcendental state, which has been called a 'peak experience', a 'religious experience,' 'divine transformation,' a 'state of Samādhi'

After some unintentional, and what I consider to be ++++ 'religious' experience, I have no desire to trip again. Looking back on it now, I believe I have personally learned everything I was intended to from psychedelics. I went from a cold-hard atheist, to an undoubtedly believer of a higher power i.e. God. Moral of my story is, don't aim too high and think you can handle it & just be careful you don't overdo it, or you might find yourself grasping for the only thing that stands. All I could do in that state was pray for mercy and beg to be returned to 'normal', it was sheer terror, yet the realization of it was pure bliss, all wrapped up in on. Today I am perfectly content with my new 'normal' reality.

 

[slo mo]

^ I definitely think there is something to be gained from a break through on DMT myself, but thank you for sharing nonetheless.

I wonder how many other people were seeking ++++'s when they were younger.

What is the age range you define younger as? Lets find out what others here were seeking, good idea IMO%)

 

[slo mo]

I think its also great about ego death not being too dose related. There are People who have taken 4 grams of Cubes in a very good setting and Poof ego death. Yeah tell me when that poll get approved haha * waits*

Maybe add to the poll how often these ego deaths were actual an intent or a surprise . I know the surprise can happen, no doubt and It would be nice to see if others have had that as well.

 

[LiquidNebula]

This is what I was aiming for with LSD when I used to take it.

evolve yourself or using it for fun ?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What is the age range you define younger as? Lets find out what others here were seeking, good idea IMO%)

For long lasting psychedelics...

When I was 18 to 21, this is when I was aiming for ++++'s.

For DMT, I would still aim for a ++++.

After about six or more experiences on mushrooms where it was ++++, I gave up trying to get into such a state and began aiming lower around a ++ to +++.

evolve yourself or using it for fun ?

Both; for fun and to slowly evolve myself. Both were accomplished.

 

[RobotRipping]

i don't really aim for this state but depends on the drug too, some psychs i just can't get that fucked up on.

One time when i took 12 grams of PE caps i had a dmt like breakthrough experience and had entity contact and didn't black out but definitely was in a very strange mystical state, a definite ++++. It was neither enjoyable nor unenjoyable, that wasn't really my point of hitting that state, it was to experience the strangeness, the entity contact and other ineffable things. It's the same for me as smoking DMT or salvia, i don't do it for fun or enjoyment i do it for the experience.

Most other psychs i don't usually ever hit a ++++ unless i've really overdone it in which case i just benzo myself down but with DXM in particular i've been blacked out for hours at a time on fourth plateau doses and again, it's not really for fun or anything, just for the experience, though i consider it a positive one despite the blackouts which are useless but before and after the blackouts are interesting for sure, and i've done it more times than i can count. After a strong dxm blackout i can't talk, or communicate or even see properly. Not something i really shoot for these days though, kind of had enough of it.

i've become interested again in vaporizing very strong psychs like 5-meo-dmt though, i love that psychedelic rush. Those are the times where i aim for a ++++ or more.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

i don't really aim for this state but depends on the drug too, some psychs i just can't get that fucked up on.

One time when i took 12 grams of PE caps i had a dmt like breakthrough experience and had entity contact and didn't black out but definitely was in a very strange mystical state, a definite ++++. It was neither enjoyable nor unenjoyable, that wasn't really my point of hitting that state, it was to experience the strangeness, the entity contact and other ineffable things. It's the same for me as smoking DMT or salvia, i don't do it for fun or enjoyment i do it for the experience.

Most other psychs i don't usually ever hit a ++++ unless i've really overdone it in which case i just benzo myself down but with DXM in particular i've been blacked out for hours at a time on fourth plateau doses and again, it's not really for fun or anything, just for the experience, though i consider it a positive one despite the blackouts which are useless but before and after the blackouts are interesting for sure, and i've done it more times than i can count. After a strong dxm blackout i can't talk, or communicate or even see properly. Not something i really shoot for these days though, kind of had enough of it.

i've become interested again in vaporizing very strong psychs like 5-meo-dmt though, i love that psychedelic rush. Those are the times where i aim for a ++++ or more.

Thanks for your reply!

Could you explain to me a bit more about the differences between 5-meo-DMT and DMT? I have only tried 5-meo-MIPT once, at a ++ level IM dosage. Do you prefer one over the other? How are the effects of each?

I definitely agree that with some substances like DMT I will aim for a ++++, but with the long-lasting ones like mushrooms or LSD, I would only aim for +++ at most, sometimes just ++.

 

[MrFister]

I'd say that total loss of ego with high doses of psychedelics is literally akin to fully losing touch with reality as we know it, and just barely beginning to touch upon reality as it truly is. I feel as if that total loss of self in exchange for total re-integration with the universe is the final goal of not only psychonauts, but many spiritualists and other mystic types in the world. That being said, total loss of connection with the world is extraordinarily dangerous for those pre-disposed to mental illness, or escapist type drug addicts. Remember, even though you feel as if you're one with the universe during a trip the MOST important for mental health's sake is to re-integrate your ineffable experiences back into this tangible world.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I'd say that total loss of ego with high doses of psychedelics is literally akin to fully losing touch with reality as we know it, and just barely beginning to touch upon reality as it truly is. I feel as if that total loss of self in exchange for total re-integration with the universe is the final goal of not only psychonauts, but many spiritualists and other mystic types in the world. That being said, total loss of connection with the world is extraordinarily dangerous for those pre-disposed to mental illness, or escapist type drug addicts. Remember, even though you feel as if you're one with the universe during a trip the MOST important for mental health's sake is to re-integrate your ineffable experiences back into this tangible world.

Very well said, thank you for sharing.

I guess not all people who take psychedelic drugs are psychonauts, and that's the difference I'm touching upon.

 

[RobotRipping]

5-meo-dmt is like being shot out of a cannon into the middle of the universe where you float in darkness in the void. It's so fucking strange i can't explain. Not very visual though.

DMT is of course like being shot out of a very different cannon into hyperspace where you encounter strange entities, hear weird things, crazy visuals.

The two are so different, and so very different from 5-meo-mipt i cannot explain. I don't really like 5-meo-mipt, strange drug, used to keep me up for hours after tripping. Try vaping 5-meo-dalt for an in between experience of 5-meo-dmt and DMT, it's really fucking fun to get that psych rush from 5-meo-dalt, it sucks by all other ROA though.

oh yeah i prefer DMT over 5-meo-dmt as 5-meo-dmt scares the living shit out of me, one trip on it i saw reality crack visually and then i felt my self stop breathing and entered the void. I lived through it of course but it literally scared the shit out of me. DMT is much more gentle, usually entities are telling me i'll be okay and fine and they are happy to see me.

 

[lazydullard]

I like to blackout and come to in hell dimensions, or feel myself die or get tortured by a cruel spirits. I like to be restrained in hospital beds and babble in tongues and watch my limbs twist in a strange language to whatever inter-stellar ghosts are communicating through my body.

God is an elitist, and you gotta survive the hazings before the it throws you a bone.

 

[trogere]

Ive had a few experiences on 4 ACO DMT where i have pretty much lost connection with reality completely with ego loss and feeling like i was dying, now if i was sober and thought about what that might feel like i would say it would be terrifying, but it wasnt simply because i didnt really know what fear was when i was experiencing it, so to say you will definitely have a bad time on heroic doses of psychedelics isnt always the case.

I blacked-out on around 35mg of 4-Aco-DMT.

I prefer ketamine to push the limits.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

5-meo-dmt is like being shot out of a cannon into the middle of the universe where you float in darkness in the void. It's so fucking strange i can't explain. Not very visual though.

DMT is of course like being shot out of a very different cannon into hyperspace where you encounter strange entities, hear weird things, crazy visuals.

The two are so different, and so very different from 5-meo-mipt i cannot explain. I don't really like 5-meo-mipt, strange drug, used to keep me up for hours after tripping. Try vaping 5-meo-dalt for an in between experience of 5-meo-dmt and DMT, it's really fucking fun to get that psych rush from 5-meo-dalt, it sucks by all other ROA though.

oh yeah i prefer DMT over 5-meo-dmt as 5-meo-dmt scares the living shit out of me, one trip on it i saw reality crack visually and then i felt my self stop breathing and entered the void. I lived through it of course but it literally scared the shit out of me. DMT is much more gentle, usually entities are telling me i'll be okay and fine and they are happy to see me.

Thanks for letting me know this; I will stick to DMT.

 

[kidklmx]

5-Meo-DMT is kind of a love it or hate it affair, I haven't done it because yeah it DOES (the concept of it) scare the living shit out of me too. Though there are a whole lot of people that really love what it does, which I can understand. (From what I understand) It takes you back to the basics, to the start of it all. The singularity, maybe. Though, in a really dark fashion.

Bit back on topic and a bit of counterweight, I aim comparatively low (say, 15 gr of wet scletoria) all the time. At those levels I'm more comfortable working with the trip. I can "step out of ego" (or as leary calls it, game-reality), which is not ego death (I am still a thing, don't think it's a bad concept), but even on something as shallow as nbomes I have achieved "ultimate knowledge". Since those trips I've gained a better understanding of abstract matters in physics and philosophize about meta-physics. It doesn't happen everytime, but when it does I am extremely euphoric (honestly beyond what normally occurs at normal trips) in a non-forceful way, MDMA doesn't even compare. I do get the beauty of ego-death though, but that area I want to explore on DMT/DPT.

EDIT: Now that does sound a bit like I think I'm Terrence McKenna in La Chorrera, and I understand that the ultimate knowledge might not be that at all. At any rate that experience is all I wanted out of psychedelics when I started (and that's not even that long ago)

 

[Disraeli_Beers]

Back in the day I used to aim for ~500ug LSD experiences but those days are behind me, for the most part. I feel there are different experiences to be gleaned from different doses or different 'trips' so to speak. These days I like to trip in an active setting, like hiking, snowboarding, boogieboarding, ect. I mean, a contemplative trip is nice too but who says you can't meditate on a beach or a mountain?

I just prefer to be somewhat more in control these days, no reason to aim for the cat's eye nebula when you're happy with pluto.

 

[LucidShroomDmtier]

I first tried Lsd because i wanted to expirience something big something unique special life changing extreme , when i first tried it was much lower than i ever expected from it so i took 10 times more with a friend i barely could speak i was just laughing psychoticly for hours i enjoyed that really much never laughed that much even after in trips, it was the greatest lols i ever had , i also thought that my body passed out and my conciousness was floating in timeless loop(the music was also in loop it miight contributed) though i guess that dosent counts passing out , also i had bad expiriences where the real world was something i thought fake and was interacting with other entities to a 3rd person that would look like just any crazy individual that was very unpleasant but remembering it is funny now . i was always aiming for the extreme but after couple bad expiriences im much more careful , because those bad expiriences look more and more like a developing schizophrenic psychosis and am pissed that happens every time i surpass some dose of psychedelic . but in my house alone or in the woods i feel i can control this fear easier , probably that was fear of others a fear of others doing me harm .. am might be afraid of outer space after all , i would like hardcore expiriences but better prepared this times until then lower doses are working magic and i enjoy them more

 

[Chocolate-Salad]

I remember reading somewhere in one of Shulgin's books about those who have aim for these high level experiences. I've searched for it but can't remember where.

I'm curious if a ++++ experience on the Shulgin scale is the point of blacking out and losing all memory of yourself. I've hoped that one day I could experience the "state of bliss -- connectedness" that the scale speaks of, but not the terrifying experiences that I hear from many users posting in this thread. Ego shaking maybe, but not that far.

If these experiences are two different beasts rather than the same, are specific substances more effective in offering self and universal education/healing?
I'm curious because I intend to shoot for my first DMT breakthrough some time soon without being tossed into utter fear.

/edit Found it! A bit long, but

A valuable concept was championed by one of the most respected psychotherapists and academicians in recent years, Hanscarl Leuner, the Chairman of the Psychotherapeutic Department of the University of Göttingen. Leuner was convinced that the value of the psychedelic drug was in the opening of the psyche with repeated modest exposures, with therapy carried forth over a period of time. This is the "psycholytic" approach to therapy. An opposite approach is called "psychedelic." Here there is what might well be a one-time interaction, in which the patient is blasted into orbit with the hopes of his confronting his problem and also finding its solution. When LSD is used in the former approach, in psycholytic dosages, one would expect levels of between 50 and 150 micrograms to be used; in the latter (psychedelic) approach, the dosage would be in the 500 to 1500 microgram range. The first calls upon the activation and development of a process of understanding; the second can be seen as a religious crisis, or a conversion event. In Europe, the first was favored, but there were strong advocates (Unger, Pahnke, Grof) in the United States favoring the latter process. Here, CZ-74 was thought to be suitable only in the psycholytic role, in that it was too short lived and, at high doses, there was a restlessness and body disturbance that was not usually seen with LSD.

There is a second instructive point to be learned from Leuner. It was he who had made early observations of the psychological effects of CZ-74 in man (within two years of the reported synthesis in about 1959) and had carried out the most extensive clinical studies ever conducted, involving at least 160 trials in human volunteers. He presented two separate reports in 1965, to two very different audiences. To the psychotherapeutic audience there was a strong emphasis made of the psycholytic virtues to be found in CZ-74, including its very short duration and the positive nature of the experience. The sessions are called "overwhelming and ecstatic" with the "elimination of the hangover of LSD -- or any pathological after-effects -- even with dosages of up to 40 milligrams." The plaudits continued: "Thus, this drug must be considered to be particularly safe and suited for ambulant psycholytic treatment and use by psychiatrists in their practices." Almost everything was positive.

However, in addressing a neurosciences conference, also in 1965, and referring to the same studies and the same experimental population, he reported some pretty heavy duty neuropharmacological negatives. "In all sessions there were disturbance of body image, illusions, pseudo-hallucinations and hallucinations. In 50% of [the] cases, motor restlessness, aphasia, loss of concentration and temporal and special disorientation could be clearly observed. In 25% of the cases there was loss of impetus, derealization and acoustic hallucinations. More rarely and only with the highest doses did extreme psychotic symptoms occur, with increased volubility, depersonalization, cosmic-mystic experiences, delirium, schizophrenic behavior with catatonic fits and temporary paranoia." Almost everything was negative.

At a banquet associated with an international conference on the study of consciousness, held in Göttingen a few years ago, Alice and I had the pleasure of sitting at the table with Hanscarl Leuner and his wife. He thanked me for inventing 2C-D which he and his students had been exploring as an adjunct to psychotherapy. They had renamed it, initially DMM-PEA and then LE-25, and had apparently explored it at dosages that reached into the hundreds of milligrams. In PIHKAL, I had offered an effective range for this drug of from 20 to 60 milligrams. It would seem that in his later years, Dr. Leuner chose to move from the psycholytic camp over to the psychedelic camp.

Looks like Leuner aims high
From 4-HO-DET, tihkal
http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal16.shtml

 

[velmwend]

Low doses of 4-aco-dmt and some white wine, music, few nibbles, good company - perfect.