How effective is magnesium in raising seizure threshold and treating SSRI withdrawal?

[deckmunki]

Apologies for a noob-ish question; what I remember from my chemistry GCSE days pretty much amounts to "mixing Mentos and diet coke makes you look like a twat..." ;o)

There seems to be a fairly noticeable link between magnesium's use in the body as an essential mineral, and its effects on raising the seizure threshold (i.e. reducing the chances of suffering a seizure).

My reason for asking is mainly because, thanks to a rather stupidly out-of-hand mephedrone problem, I've noticed an increase in the severity and number on myoclonic jerks - twitches - I'm experiencing, especially when falling asleep.

Paraesthesia - brain zaps - would seem to be a related effect arising from depletion of the serotonin neurotransmitter? Also, if your seizure threshold is a measure of how "in-balance" the various positive and negative feedback systems of the brain's receptors are, then could the symptoms of lowered serotonin availability suggest that it is used to regulate electrical activity?

One last crazed theory; could this also help to explain why an increase in serotonin levels is often associated with difficulty in forming memories, considering the "wider issues" or worrying, while lowered serotoning seems to allow one's thoughts to run wild in the brain? I dunno...

***

(The rest of this post is a rambling collection of thoughts, quotes and a few links).

We know that high doses (4-6g?) of magniesium may be given intravenously to pregnant women as part of the treatment of eclampsia :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclampsia
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15113445

Also, interestingly, magnesium has also been mentioned in a Leicester Royal Infirmary A&E report as a cardioprotective agent in the treatment of an anti-seizure (epilepsy) medication overdose in a young woman suspected of having attemped suicide:

Use of Magnesium as a cardioprotective agent in the case of an intentional overdose of lamotrigine in a 23-year old epileptic female, Leicester Royal Infirmary - http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.a...;spage=316;epage=317;aulast=Venkatraman#cited

Some more stuff, which I wrote as part of an e-mail to an epileptic friend who I thought might want to do some reading into this, too:

... (fairly long discussion [about magnesium], but worth reading in its entirety when you can't get to sleep):
http://www.epilepsy.com/discussion/709410

Research on the connection between magnesium and epilepsy:
http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-facts.html#magnesium-and-epilepsy

Studies on cerebrospinal fluid ionized calcium and magnesium concentrations in convulsive children <--- CSF Fluid Mg Levels are more accurate than blood levels

Neurological consequences of magnesium deficiency: correlations with epilepsy

Brain and CSF magnesium concentrations during magnesium deficit in animals and humans: neurological symptoms

Treatment of Porphyric Convulsions with Magnesium Sulfate

Magnesium deficiency as a cause of acute intractable seizures

More: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-facts.html#magnesium-and-epilepsy#ixzz0ZhQ0MuYt

British Medical Journal: "Anticonvulsant Action" of Vitamin D in Epileptic Patients? A Controlled Pilot Study - http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/2/5913/258

From what I've read so far, magnesium supplements can help [raise seizure threshold in epileptics], but increased magnesium in your food might not always result in an increased (better) level of ionic magnesium in the blood; if the body isn't able to properly absorb (or is excreting too much) magnesium, an alternative suggested was ionic magnesium or Epsom salts (ref: http://www.coping-with-epilepsy.com/forums/f23/there-cure-epilepsy-882/index2.html#post9174 - plenty of unfounded statements on the whole thread (the original post claims Epsom Salts can cure all epilepsy by a well-meaning but misguided poster), but many links to good research too).

Online book: Magnesium, the nutrient that could change your life - chapter 7: epilepsy:
http://www.mgwater.com/rod07.shtml

(As always, take everything you read on the interwebs with a pinch of salt, but anything which is mentioned in places like PubMed.gov are generally trustworthy to a greater or lesser extent).

Article on magnesium deficiency (Hypomagnesaemia) on Wikipedia - well worth reading that and everything linked from the article and references section:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomagnesemia#Causes

Causes of magnesium deficiency ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypomagnesemia#Causes ) are worth a look, including:
* Insufficient selenium
* Insufficient vitamin D or sunlight exposure
* Insufficient vitamin B6

Often related to low calcium, too, but I noticed some discussion on the first link (epilepsy.com) that increasing calcium intake could have side-effects too.

PubMed article "Magnesium deficiency as a cause of acute intractable seizures" ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1919610&dopt=AbstractPlus ):

"Clinical and experimental investigations have shown that magnesium depletion causes a marked irritability of the nervous system, eventually resulting in epileptic seizures. Although magnesium deficiency as a cause of epilepsy is uncommon, its recognition and correction may prove life-saving. Two case reports are presented which emphasize the importance of recognizing hypomagnesaemia in patients with acute intractable seizures."

To quote one of the commenters ( http://www.epilepsy.com/discussion/709410#comment-972883 ):

"... My daughter Pippa has been taking magnesium as she found she was deficient after having a hair analysis. Apparently B6 is also good for stopping fits. ... She had been on the pill for over a year and apparently that robs you of essential minerals and vitamins. We also look at her work load,diet and food allegies. They all play a part in epilepsy. Pip is not on medication and really doesn't want to, But it means she has to be very careful about being on her own and let friends know about her condition. She had a few noctunal fits at 13 when she started her periods and we went to a homoepath then. They stopped and at 20 after coming off the pill had a grand mal. When she came off the pill, her periods were all over the place and she has been taking agnus castus to help kick start her periods. Hormones are also related. We have had to be like a couple of detectives! We live in England and the neurologist is very anti alternative therapies, and basically hasn't helped at all."

Randomly found this, too - Magnesium Deficiency and Leg Cramps from running (in an epileptic - mentions lots of interesting research) - http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-deficiency-and-leg-cramps-from-running.html

Vitamin D and Epilepsy - http://www.easy-immune-health.com/vitamin-d-research.html#section14

A Comparative Study of the Relative Influence of Different Anticonvulsant Drugs, UV Exposure and Diet on Vitamin D and Calcium Metabolism in Out-Patients with Epilepsy - http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/59/3/569

... and chocolate cravings??!

"Premenstrual chocolate craving is a phenomenon that has puzzled a great many women who are not controlled by this overwhelming urge at other times of the month. Yet chocolate, which is highest in magnesium of all foods, is often a sign of magnesium deficiency. If your diet is high in calcium you may have poor calcium absorption as well. The answer is not to eat more chocolate, but to increase your magnesium by eating more whole grains, nuts, seafood, and green vegetables, and by increasing your magnesium supplements. Your chocolate cravings will vanish when you have enough magnesium in your diet." -
http://www.mgwater.com/calmagab.shtml

... So what's the deal here? Any ideas?

 

[colors]

what's your dosing regimen with the magnesium?
how far does it go in preventing 'the zaps'?
have you tried any other AED's in comparison?

 

[deckmunki]

Not tried other AEDs I'm afraid - at least nothing designed as such (Wikipedia article on myoclonic jerks claims that alcohol is used by some sufferers of mild symptoms, but alcohol as a cure for anything apart from sobriety is a fool's errand methinks...).

In my totally unscientific process, I've been taking between 600 and 1200mg daily, usually administered around 6pm so it's had a chance to be absorbed into my system by bedtime.

The results are completely subjective, so I would never base any conclusions on them, but the magnesium does seem to reduce the paraesthesia, especially in low-stimulation situations (e.g. in a dark, quiet room when falling asleep; this seems to be when the zaps occur with the most pain, and ringing in the ears can become "deafening", possibly due to the body's auto-compensation going a bit askew?).

I dunno - it's all speculation and conjecture on my part; hopefully someone's already done the research though, or someone will see fit to conduct a proper set of clinical trials.

Dm

 

[colors]

thx for sharing and sorry i can't add any scientific info or insight.

i was just thinking that it would be a very convenient supplement for recreational drug users (being OTC and cheap) if it does indeed stave off seizures and zapping, in addition to its commonly known ability to counter bruxism!

 

[deckmunki]

thx for sharing and sorry i can't add any scientific info or insight.

i was just thinking that it would be a very convenient supplement for serotogenic (sp?) drug users (being OTC and cheap) if it does indeed stave off seizures and zapping, in addition to its commonly known ability to counter bruxism!

Well that's the thing that intrigues me the most; I know nothing about the mechanism(s) involved in bruxism caused by stimulants, but I wonder whether there's a link between bruxism and other muscular/neurological abnormalities which arise for example from amphetamine- and cathinone-derived substances (e.g. mephedrone, MDMA)?

I was taking magnesium for bruxism caused by stress at work anyway after reading about its supposed abilities on here, and it was a complete fluke that I did some research on its other uses and came across the seizure and epilepsy links.

Dm

 

[btdt]

antidepressant withdrawal causes these zaps too

I have quit my antidepressants and had the brain zaps for the first year the ear ringing too.
I found a withdrawal site called paxilprogress.org that talks a lot about the benefits of magnesium in treating withdrawal.
I have no idea if the drug you have taken is anything like effexor which was my last drug but for some reason they have the same withdrawal effects had the ear ringing too and so have many other people on pp.

I had my first seizure a couple of months ago while at the dentist and had been given ephedrine.

While many others on pp were getting good results with mag I had to quit taking it tho it worked well for a few days at a wk I had insomnia and anxiety worse than before taking it so I had to quit.

As strange as it may seem I find that epson salt bath sooth and make me feel well. I have no idea what the difference is. Both are magnesium. It seems I cannot tolerate it orally for very long.

I also have a vit D deficiency that I am trying to overcome with supplements..... vit D causes insomnia/anxiety with the initial doses. I cannot take more than three days at a time.

Not sure what the reasons are thought I would just add my experiences to this post.

 

[ma baker]

I know how you feel as I had the same thing when I stoped prozac.The drs have tryed me on loads of other antidpressants and the withdrawals are always hell. What i dont get is Im alaways told there not addictive and that when I stoped there be no w/d symptoms.try to get your vits fromfood rather then suplements as its less hard on your system. Hot baths are always good I will try epson salts if I can find any as I went in loads shops asking and they said they no longer sell it.

 

[Mr. White]

One thing to not about magnesium: some form of it (such as magnesium oxide) have a very low bioavailability.
It might say you're taking 800-1200mg on the bottle but you're not absorbing nearly that much. The low bioavailable forms leave Mg ions in your gut where they attract water out of your body. This in turn can lead to some nasty diarrhea

The best form is chelated magnesium. Great bioavailability, no diarrhea and i find it gives me a really deep sleep if taken in the evening.

 

[btdt]

magnesium my take on it so far

I know how you feel as I had the same thing when I stoped prozac.The drs have tryed me on loads of other antidpressants and the withdrawals are always hell. What i dont get is Im alaways told there not addictive and that when I stoped there be no w/d symptoms.try to get your vits fromfood rather then suplements as its less hard on your system. Hot baths are always good I will try epson salts if I can find any as I went in loads shops asking and they said they no longer sell it.

Prozac was a nightmare for me had a severe adverse reaction I know this now 20 years later had I know it then it would have changed my life I think. The thing with prozac is it can damage mitochondria as many other drugs do.
They can call it discontinuations syndrome if they want it is withdrawal to me. This has been talked about for years and is generally poo pood on antidepressant withdrawal sites simply a bit of double talk to keep the "legal" legit ha drugs apart from the idea of the addicts supposedly in the streets not good for sales you know.

Withdrawal from antidepressants can be protracted lasting years with many people being misdiagnosed as having bipolar when indeed it is withdrawal. These are very common things talked about on withdrawal sites and recent books the most recent I can think of is Anatomy of an Epidemic there is a long talk by the author Robert Whitaker on utube or some place. I have read the book. His idea is that people get on antidepressants and become chronically not well get on social assistance and never get off. Before these drugs hit the market he says the largest % of these ill folks were well in 2 year now with the drugs they are sick for life. Good book a lot of interesting stuff can't recall it all just now.

One thing about magnesium that I have read is that by the time you get enuff to help your body you have the runs so it can't stay in your body that is why the baths are suggested. I get the epson salts at the drug store I live in Canada all drug stores and most food stores carry this product here.

As for links on magnesium here are some thoughts from the antidepressant withdrawal web site.
http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/search.php?searchid=868458
It helps some but not all.
For vitamins it is thought to start slow with one sixth of the dose and work your way up as many people with antidepressant withdrawal issues are hyper sensitive to vitamins and other drugs foods ect. This advice has served me well. When I do feel over the top with anxiety I take a mag tab grate it into water just a bit of it and sip the water it does help and I can quit as soon as it takes effect so I don't get too much. Real prefer to take a bath in epson salts as my skin never over doses haha.
I will take a look at the chelated mag maybe that is the answer I know I have tried a few different kinds it is not he diarrhea so much that turns me off it but a paradoxical reaction. Does the opposite it is supposed to and vamps me up if I take too much I know it is crazy but true. System is out of whack so I just eat right and leave it at that most of the time.
A lot of people in ad withdr will take fish oil.

 

[deckmunki]

I'm pretty certain chelated (amino acid-based) magnesium doesn't cause the loose stool problems associated with cheaper forms of magnesium, so it's definitely worth a go.

/Al

 

[debaser]

Is milk of magnesium a good form of magnesium? Thanks for any input.