Opioids How does Methadone compare to OXY recreationally? (Chronic Pain - Neuropathy)

[Raphy]

(You can skip my background if you don't wish to read through and just answer how the Methadone high (pill form) compares to Oxy, for Chronic Pain. It would still be much appreciated! =)

My name is Raph and I battled cancer (non hodgkin lymphoma) twice during my teens; First at the age of 12, and then I relapsed at the age of 16.
Luckily, I was a stubborn SOB who was more concerned about returning in time for his basketball playoffs than dying, and so while long and painful, the chemotherapy was successful and done with quickly enough.

I am now 22, and while I've been in full remission for 6 years and in great shape, the chemo really damaged my nerves; and so for the past 4 years I've struggled with neuropathy (symptoms took a couple years to become obvious and non sports related). Massages, nutritional plans and holistic medicine is nice, but at some point the only easy way to ease the constant shocks and needles is to use narcotic opioids. So I've been on Codeine (60-240mg daily), Dilaudid (10mg?), other opioids I can't recall, numerous useless non narcotics and finally, Oxycodone 10mg instant release tablets (60-80mg daily). Lately it's been more like 120-180mg daily, as I've been on the stuff more or less steadily for 6 months. Usually when I become tolerant, I purposely lower the doses a few days and endure a bit more pain, until the prescribed dose works again. But lately it's been really bad and I don't know if 80mg will ever be enough, so my doc prescribed it with an antidepressant to maximize efficiency, but likely I'll switch to methadone in a month...

I would not be given methadone as an addict where you show up for a syrop daily, so I understand I should get the pill form of methadone to take home (the good stuff?) and I'm unsure how it fares recreationally. Is there still a high? I know the pros is that the effects last very long and are very potent pain killing wise, but I also enjoy my average semi daily highs as a break from my otherwise painful day...

So anyone with some similar experience (of using Oxy for pain and fun then switching to Methadone. Not the cancer history part!) who could give some insight?

Any comments would be HUGELY appreciated, I'm lucky to have doctors willing to prescribe virtually any narcotics in generous amounts and great insurance for the costs (Canadian benefits + private insurance), but it's hard to ask the pharmacist: ''Will this still get me high?'' Hehe..

Cheers!!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Methadone doesn't have a reputation of being very recreational. The majority of people would consider oxy much more euphoric and it is used for recreational purposes way way more frequently than methadone is.

 

[OntarioGuy]

I actually find methadone to be very potent and euphoric when one doesnt have a tolerance to it.I find it stimulating like Oxycodone but better.Im currently on maintenance of 110 mg's per day and I get a buzz everytime I take it, and I personally think I need that little buzz for the treatment to work for me (I have all of my take homes, and haven't IV'd any opiates for about 2 years+ now.)

So to the OP if you take 120-180 mg's of Oxy per day, maybe try between 30-40 mg's of methadone. Lots of people will say that is to high, but I think your tolerance can handle it.

Also it may be dangerous for you to dose multiple times a day for a few days, as the methadone will build up in your system rapidly. for example, you maybe able to get away with taking 80-100 mg's ONE day without dying but if you did it three days in a row you could find yourself overdosing.

So just be careful, do some research on methadone and its recreational and health effects and stay safe.Like I said I find methadone to be a 100% recreational opioid and I know people who are hooked with soley methadone as their DOC.

 

[Raphy]

Thanks a lot fellow Canadian! That dosage sounds about like what both my pharmacist and doctor speculate about. I do have a very high tolerance, I've been taking pills on and off since my early teens (non recreationally) and I have a fast metabolism.

Do you know however, how taking methadone for maintenance compares to taking it daily for pain (not necessarily for rehab)?

From my understanding, the way I would be prescribed methadone is quite different than rehab patients. I would probably end up in rehab if I kept going with the oxycodone however, and that is why the methadone is being considered right now BEFORE being left with no choice.

Finally, do you take it once daily or it can be every 6 or 12 hours? From my understanding, the docs and pharmacist would calculate exactly how much dosage I need and adjust over the first few days/weeks and then I would maintain daily...

Again, thank you very much for the info!

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Kicking methadone is one of the most brutal experiences of all time.. it's 10x harder to get off of than oxy.

I'd seriously reconsider singing up for that hell if you have any other option.. there are a lot of other choices of opiates for pain that are more effective and much easier to get off of.

 

[Raphy]

Thanks a lot fellow Canadian! That dosage sounds about like what both my pharmacist and doctor speculate about. I do have a very high tolerance, I've been taking pills on and off since my early teens (non recreationally) and I have a fast metabolism.

Do you know however, how taking methadone for maintenance compares to taking it daily for pain (not necessarily for rehab)?

From my understanding, the way I would be prescribed methadone is quite different than rehab patients. I would probably end up in rehab if I kept going with the oxycodone however, and that is why the methadone is being considered right now BEFORE being left with no choice.

Finally, do you take it once daily or it can be every 6 or 12 hours? From my understanding, the docs and pharmacist would calculate exactly how much dosage I need and adjust over the first few days/weeks and then I would maintain daily...

Again, thank you very much for the info!

---

Mr Scagnattie,

I am quite aware of how much oxycodone is taken recreationally, and that methadone is much less known for its recreational use.
I'm simply hoping to find people who have HAD TO make the change because of their fast increasing tolerance to oxy, and have hopefully found some similarities if not even improvements on the pleasant effects of methadone, on top of the pain killing properties.

 

[Raphy]

I'm not an addict though, never struggled with gradually getting off narcotics.

This is purely medicinal, the recreational for me is just a pleasant side effect of pain relief.

My oncle is also a very renown pain doctor in his own field who shares many traits with Dr House. Being a cold doctor genius who doesn't like patients much...and has abused pills. He went to rehab (purposely) for prescribing himself anti depressants and sleeping pills pathologically.
Anyway, he is the one telling me I should make the switch to methadone ASAP and who reassures me, being dependant on methadone is better than being dependant on oxy or other narcotics. You can stay on methadone you're whole life by simply adjusting doses. Whereas other painkillers have thresholds where more than a certain amount makes no difference since you only have so many endorphin receptors. I'm no specialist though, but I trust my docs and my uncle's judgement on this.

Getting off it isn't the biggest concern also because of the likelihood of me taking it for the rest of my life.

My nerve damage isn't showing any progress and the dozens of different therapies I am trying don't work.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I'm not an addict though, never struggled with gradually getting off narcotics.

This is purely medicinal, the recreational for me is just a pleasant side effect of pain relief.

My oncle is also a very renown pain doctor in his own field who shares many traits with Dr House. Being a cold doctor genius who doesn't like patients much...and has abused pills. He went to rehab (purposely) for prescribing himself anti depressants and sleeping pills pathologically.
Anyway, he is the one telling me I should make the switch to methadone ASAP and who reassures me, being dependant on methadone is better than being dependant on oxy or other narcotics. You can stay on methadone you're whole life by simply adjusting doses. Whereas other painkillers have thresholds where more than a certain amount makes no difference since you only have so many endorphin receptors. I'm no specialist though, but I trust my docs and my uncle's judgement on this.

Getting off it isn't the biggest concern also because of the likelihood of me taking it for the rest of my life.

My nerve damage isn't showing any progress and the dozens of different therapies I am trying don't work.

It's not about being an addict. You can be psychically dependent without being psychologically addicted. The dependence caused by taking methadone everyday as opposed to other opiates is really bad. If you ever want to get off the methadone, the withdrawals are much more severe and last a whole lot longer. That was my point.

 

[Cyb]

I think it needs to be stated that mdone will have much less of a peak trough effect. It also has effect though slight on nmda and norephinephrine which aids in helping neuro pain. The withdrawal is probably one of the worst though.

 

[Znegative]

Methadone can get you high just like any other opiates. Strangely though, even though it's one of the stronger opioids, I've always found that it take a disproportional dose to get high when compared to the equipotent dose of a shorter acting narcotic. What I mean is, methadone in acute dosages is about 2-3x stronger than morphine (let's say 3 times). Say it takes 90mg of IV morphine to get you stoned- which would be equipotent to 30mg of methadone (which has an oral BA of nearly 90%). I have Always found that while 30mg would probably make me feel straight and lift my mood a bit, but to feel stoned, I have always personally needed at least 2x the equal dosage of methadone to the shorter acting agonist(of the shorter acting opiate, like in this instance, morphine) if not more. I should say, Out of the 3 times I got high on methadone, I ended up in the ICU two times :/.

So IME, Methadone can be great for maintenance and detox- and likely for pain, but it's not that great as a recreational drug. The highs like dope, it just lasts a lot longer.

And be warned, it can take up to four hours to kick in when dosed orally. Especially the first time. I would actually recommend plugging it as it's safer- less is absorbed and it peaks at about 15-30 minutes.

 

[fairnymph]

How did you find Dialudid? That's technically the strongest/most potent opiate you listed as having tried, though it does have low oral bioavailability.

 

[Raphy]

fairnymph: Dilaudid was strange. I had it first after one of 9 surgeries...and it did NOTHING for me. Tried again for my neuro pain somewhere between codeine, gabapentin and tramadol, and I would need to take about 4 times the prescribed amount to feel any euphoria. And this was back when I only took about 60mg of codeine a day...

Some opiates don't work for some. What so far has worked best for the longest is my oxy, which unlike in the US is ONLY oxy. I think there are some FDA regulations requiring narcotics like oxy to come combined with 325 mg of acetaminophen. We don't have that, so it does wonders, well DID wonders...
--
Znegative: I was explained by my pharmacist broadly how it works, so I know it takes longer to kick in kinda like time release caps, and I assume in plugging, you meant you absorb MORE? I may not do that on the very first dose...but perhaps the second haha. I tried plugging a couple of time with the oxy, but I found it useless as it kicks in within 15 min orally anyway, and sometimes I felt nothing. Maybe I don't do it well...

 

[Cyb]

Methadone d does indeed have a lower bioavailability when taken rectally.

 

[rhun]

I've been taking methadone daily since October. The first week I felt comfortably, a little fuzzy, and enjoyed the feeling but didn't feel really high or anything. After the first week, that vanished. The next two months though sleeping felt amazing and I felt pretty comfortable most of the time. After the two months, nada... I cannot tell AT ALL when I take my dose. Basically, I feel "normal" I guess though if I take my dose too late I feel icky. Tolerance comes on very quickly in my experience with methadone. Some people continue to up their dose chasing that initial high but they just end up stuck on a ridiculous amount of methadone.

Also, after taking methadone good luck going back to oxy. Methadone basically ruins your tolerance... and it's so much stronger than other opiates. It's been good for me because I don't have to redose every 6 hours and it blocks other opiates. But it sounds like the opposite of what you're looking for. Methadone is really not a recreational dose and the "high" is more of a sedating feeling than a real opiate high.

I would try hydromorphone or morphine... or taper down your dose really really low to reset your tolerance. There's also things you can take to potentiate your pills and reduce tolerance. Search BL.

 

[Znegative]

^thats strange that you don't feel your dose at all rhun. I always have felt my dose, and I get a definite glow that lasts about 3 hours. I've been taking it for a year now and increased my dose only two times (from 30->40->50mg). I have in the past been on much higher dosages of methadone (80+mg) and there is definitely a difference in effect when you're on the lower side of the spectrum (although I thought I remembered you mentioning being under 50mg?). However I also am not stabilized on this dose and use on top of it which surely effects things :/.

Anyway, the rectal absorption is something like 70-77% as opposed to the 87-90% absorbed orally. However, rectal methadone kicks in within 5 minutes and peaks around 15-30. For both of these reasons I think it is an arguably safer ROA for those using it for the first time (so long as you start off with a low dose) because you know how a certain dose effects you much more quickly and can than titrate up if needed, rather than having to possibly wait 3 or more hours to see if 'xx'mg will do the job.

 

[Raphy]

Actually I dunno if this makes a big difference or any at all, but my pharmacist and doc say it would be Methadol not Methadone that they'd give me in pill form? The descriptions I find indicate that it has similar effects as other opioids in analgesia, sedation and euphoria.

Any difference on the feel? My pharmacist seemed to indicate it still gave a similar buzz. (His words) He's a chill young guy with whom we have a no bullshit relation. He's quite aware patients like the euphoric effects of opioids.

 

[DJThomp]

Okay, so first of all, I have done every type of Methadone in any way possible ( but only after researching what those certain results would do to me). I have also done just about any type of drug you could do in any type of way possible or available to me!

So now that you know a little about my background, I can answer this original question on this forum!

The round methadone and wafers have a decent blocker in it to keep you from abusing it! The only way I would recommend doing both of them would be sublingualy, although the round ones seem to make your mouth have a burning sensation! The wafers not so much of a burn! And also grapefruit juice does help them into your bloodstream faster ! I cannot say if taking rectally would do you any good unless you crushed it to a very fine powder and shook it up into a "Turkey baster" ! But, if you get some of the oblong shaped white ones, those can be IV/IMed pretty well under my experience or given analy or Oraly!

Like I said, I Google or research every pill or type of substance I used to be able to get my hands on!!

And yes I have relapsed a couple of times, but it has only been a couple of MGs here and there of some hydros ....

If anyone has anymore questions for me, please feel free to ask on here or by email that is listed on my profile.

Oh and p.s. I used to do auditorium classes to all of TNs and KYs school system! But only to the teachers, principals, SRO officers and other school staff that needed some lessons about the abuse and neglect of personal prescriptions !