methamaniac
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Been watching Benny Hinn today?
Or where you up late with Mike Murdock?
Or where you up late with Mike Murdock?
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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
How does god keep track of everything?
- Thread starter ParappaTheRapper
- Start date
Smoky
Bluelight Crew
Yes, it's a matter of perception indeed… The illusion is like a narcotic in itself that life can exist other than ………..
How do you feel about ' choiceness awareness' and when does that state happen? Or is that another illusion in itself?
Also if as the non dualists say, life is illusion… how about that dog that takes a shit outside of walmart while one is buying things they think they need…
Sense (smell, taste), feeling… this is real… at least within the container of the body mind system organism.
Who or what is real, or am I real reminds me of process, becoming … senses.. feeling.
" What is real asked the rabbit one day " That book always comes to mind…
“Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real.'
'Does it hurt?' asked the Rabbit.
'Sometimes,' said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. 'When you are Real you don't mind being hurt.'
This reminds me of potential to be real ^
----
Also, good questions on the dream. I have been in this state. For one this is trauma related ime, and 2 must we separate oneself from the dream? And why?
In one sense I see your point, as some of the leben's philosophers discuss, although in dreams as part of the collective unconscious.
Is this personal to me? In an archetypal sense….
Yes, and no…
Do we ever live up to what your supposed to be?
Supposed to be isn't real… This is delusion perhaps...
Thus no need to live up to it...
Some of the more profound question I'll have to meditate on… or dream… maybe find more questions, or some unspoken yeses then.
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methamaniac
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"Choiceness awareness" too me me put very simply is realizing you have choices, and those choices have a "consequence". On a small or large scale doesnt matter.
The butterfly effect if you will.
Where I may disagree with some is on "randomness". It too imho is an illusion.
Yes we have choices, but they are not random.
One of my favorite quotes is from AE
( as if I could pick a favorite) is
" God doesnt play dice with the universe"
There are laws and everything and everyone obeys these laws. God sets the parameters. Hard to swallow for some, but not believing this I would point out doesnt make it not true. The more you attempt to go "outside" these parameters, the more you will experience "chaos". You can spend endless amounts of energy trying to overcome this,
but in the end you must submit. This is one choice you dont make.
But dont take that to mean I believe in Determinism. You have free will and a choice/chance to pick either "one" or "zero".
Can I explain how this works? No, but I have a extremely strong "hunch". Someone might call this faith based on intuition. I like to say intuition based on knowledge....Tomato, Tomato
Allow me another AE quote,
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one".
In respect to dualism, I believe most certainly I am more than my body. But then again my body may be real AND my thoughts are the illusion.
The dog outside walmart may be "real"how I percieve the dog may not be.
Or perhaps, the illusion of the dog appears when I need to make the illusion of "me" appear more "real".
More mind blowing is what if the dog becomes real the moment I percieve him.
If you think about it in terms of a story in a book that unfolds in real life it makes it easier to grasp.
Or like thoughts/dreams/illusions in "3D".
Its easy for all of us to experience a differnt story,
but exactly the same story at the same time.
We all may see the color "red" differntly,
but when asked to point it out on a chart will pick the same "color".
My red may be your green and your green my red,
but end the end we agree RED exists.
Do I live up to what I am suppose to be?
Try looking at it like do I live up to what I
can potentially be.
The "goal" is to keep it between the "goal posts"
If I dont live up to what I can potentially be,
was I ever or could I ever be truly "real"
Or would I be what you and I call "pretend"
(Sorry you had some great points, too many to address in one post
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lazylazyjoe
Bluelighter
A better question is can an observer actually change an outcome by simply observing.
Smoky
Bluelight Crew
Krishnamurti asserted that Choiceless Awareness is a natural attribute of non-self-centered perception, which he called "observation without the observer "
The butterfly effect reminds me more of the concept of 'synchronicity.'
Carl Jung spoke to this much… Krishnamurti didn't quite grasp this concept…
It has to do with uncommon connections of two or more psycho-physic phenomena… sometimes found in dreams, the subconscious. Both may disagree also with the idea of random choices…
As far as parameters… and God… are you referring to universal laws? I am not so sure about 'in the end' … but maybe during life chaos is experienced.. Out of chaos comes order, although this term was utilized politically it makes sense on an individual level as well. I would say we all experience this to some degree… testing our limits boundaries… suffering. I think one must suffer for suffering to be optional and this is where stepping over these lines, or laws happen, at least ime and what I've witnessed. One can submit in one's lifetime, prior to death.
We all do have a different story, and need to 'drop the story' at times to live authentically and not tied to the past… Part of this story gives us an idea we need to live up to what we think it's ending may be… 'pretend' as you say.
And yes, everyone perceives, observes.. witnesses ('me' as you say), events differently based on personal makeup and experience, story… memories… synchronicity and so on; but the events like the dog taking a shit still happened and this is understood by 2 or more observers that is 'has' happened and is real. Someone needs to clean up the mess… and we can agree the dog will need to go again later in the day.
At the end of the day, life may be an illusion but I always need to eat, feed my cat… wash the car… all these physical petty realities.. this organism on this island called earth has to do. This is real, but of course there is so much more involved.
We are what we are looking for… I'll keep asking the questions… and it's okay if I don't know.
The butterfly effect reminds me more of the concept of 'synchronicity.'
Carl Jung spoke to this much… Krishnamurti didn't quite grasp this concept…
It has to do with uncommon connections of two or more psycho-physic phenomena… sometimes found in dreams, the subconscious. Both may disagree also with the idea of random choices…
As far as parameters… and God… are you referring to universal laws? I am not so sure about 'in the end' … but maybe during life chaos is experienced.. Out of chaos comes order, although this term was utilized politically it makes sense on an individual level as well. I would say we all experience this to some degree… testing our limits boundaries… suffering. I think one must suffer for suffering to be optional and this is where stepping over these lines, or laws happen, at least ime and what I've witnessed. One can submit in one's lifetime, prior to death.
We all do have a different story, and need to 'drop the story' at times to live authentically and not tied to the past… Part of this story gives us an idea we need to live up to what we think it's ending may be… 'pretend' as you say.
And yes, everyone perceives, observes.. witnesses ('me' as you say), events differently based on personal makeup and experience, story… memories… synchronicity and so on; but the events like the dog taking a shit still happened and this is understood by 2 or more observers that is 'has' happened and is real. Someone needs to clean up the mess… and we can agree the dog will need to go again later in the day.
At the end of the day, life may be an illusion but I always need to eat, feed my cat… wash the car… all these physical petty realities.. this organism on this island called earth has to do. This is real, but of course there is so much more involved.
We are what we are looking for… I'll keep asking the questions… and it's okay if I don't know.
methamaniac
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The very fact that we see things "upside down" and then flip the image right side up in our minds,
Is enough for me to say who the hell knows for sure?
lol But that dont stop one from trying to figure it out
methamaniac
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Smokey,
If you agree we suffer for our greater good,
we on same page and both see the same "color"
It means it is POSSIBLE suffering and good exist.
Same goes for the dog.
Im not playing devils advocate, the only way you could no for sure is if you always existed.
Anything less than that you take on faith.
Example would be is the dog in your dream real because you and the guy you are talking to in a dream at walmart agree on seeing it.
Like I said I do believe I exist at least as a thought. This much I am 99.9 sure on.
Your perception on perspective is spot on.
A good way to visualize it is to look at a picture a a single real event. A 3d picture on pause.
If you asked me if rainy days sucked at a picture of me sitting with a football in my hand as a child, I would say yes.
I have grown to appreciate rainy days and if you asked me about a snap shot of me today snoozing underneath a tin roof and I would say rainy days rule!
Time is just a term for us to show progression.
In theory you can go left or right on a "movie strip" of time. As queer as it may sound its theoretically possible to have a causation before the cause. To observe a broken egg becoming whole.
If you agree we suffer for our greater good,
we on same page and both see the same "color"
It means it is POSSIBLE suffering and good exist.
Same goes for the dog.
Im not playing devils advocate, the only way you could no for sure is if you always existed.
Anything less than that you take on faith.
Example would be is the dog in your dream real because you and the guy you are talking to in a dream at walmart agree on seeing it.
Like I said I do believe I exist at least as a thought. This much I am 99.9 sure on.
Your perception on perspective is spot on.
A good way to visualize it is to look at a picture a a single real event. A 3d picture on pause.
If you asked me if rainy days sucked at a picture of me sitting with a football in my hand as a child, I would say yes.
I have grown to appreciate rainy days and if you asked me about a snap shot of me today snoozing underneath a tin roof and I would say rainy days rule!
Time is just a term for us to show progression.
In theory you can go left or right on a "movie strip" of time. As queer as it may sound its theoretically possible to have a causation before the cause. To observe a broken egg becoming whole.
Smoky
Bluelight Crew
oh yes, suffering must exist to experience joy. for the greater good perhaps… some will always be suffering as others will simultaneously be moving into suffering or out of suffering and into joy, peace. there is both happening at all times and this is part of the human experience. we all have wounds.
as far as humanity though globally, we have a long way to go as the answers are not in changing what's outside of us, but changing ourselves, internally. ime.
now when you say the dog in my dream, you are referring to this dream of life, living dream as in illusion, or as in dream sleeping state?
would you also say we are always moving in and out of the dream or would you think it is a constant?
most definitely about the rain. many factors always involved, there is never a black and white answer as change is constant. it is raining today and i enjoy it, if i was on the subway or stuck in traffic wet i may not.
concept of time is a deep one, we created and creates suffering in itself seeing it as linear and not circular; but as far as causation observance prior to cause most definitely.
as far as humanity though globally, we have a long way to go as the answers are not in changing what's outside of us, but changing ourselves, internally. ime.
now when you say the dog in my dream, you are referring to this dream of life, living dream as in illusion, or as in dream sleeping state?
would you also say we are always moving in and out of the dream or would you think it is a constant?
most definitely about the rain. many factors always involved, there is never a black and white answer as change is constant. it is raining today and i enjoy it, if i was on the subway or stuck in traffic wet i may not.
concept of time is a deep one, we created and creates suffering in itself seeing it as linear and not circular; but as far as causation observance prior to cause most definitely.
Smoky
Bluelight Crew
btw, yes … because of thought we do exist… as without it there would be no observer or witness to identify the ' I ' that is thinking, or the thinker in thought…
(i didn't quite answer your ?).
(i didn't quite answer your ?).
methamaniac
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^
Hard to explain the metaphysical with the physical. Thats where intuition comes into play.
What I meant about dream is its possible you are in a dream as we speak. And your "dreams" are a dream within a dream.
I said God as an originator because eventually somebody has to be having the dream and be real.
As far as change and time, you need time to have change. "Time is what keeps everything from happening at "once".(AE)
If we could observe everything at once time would cease to exist. We "manipulate" time with our minds. Ever felt like time was going a bit slow or fast? Thats what I mean by time is an illusion. Time as we know it. Its entirely possible time as we know it is created in our consciousness.
Not sure if you are familar with holographic principle or quantum entanglement,
but its possible that to an observer outside the universe time would appear stationary.
To control time is to control reality.
Hard to explain the metaphysical with the physical. Thats where intuition comes into play.
What I meant about dream is its possible you are in a dream as we speak. And your "dreams" are a dream within a dream.
I said God as an originator because eventually somebody has to be having the dream and be real.
As far as change and time, you need time to have change. "Time is what keeps everything from happening at "once".(AE)
If we could observe everything at once time would cease to exist. We "manipulate" time with our minds. Ever felt like time was going a bit slow or fast? Thats what I mean by time is an illusion. Time as we know it. Its entirely possible time as we know it is created in our consciousness.
Not sure if you are familar with holographic principle or quantum entanglement,
but its possible that to an observer outside the universe time would appear stationary.
To control time is to control reality.
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Smoky
Bluelight Crew
I do feel like I am in a dream, sometimes I don't.. This is because I can be quite dissociated.
Anything is possible in theory. I might be dreaming 'right now' … and it's okay to not know.. This is where life comes in.. Do I need to decide?
If God is originator, how do you know this God might not be in a dream as well… Must there be a single dreamer for a dream?
--
I was referring to time created on a linear perspective. I suppose time as we know it, you say .. yes.
In this it is an illusion as it can be damaging, but also yes ….keep everything from happening at once, in one sense. but in another sense if everything happened at once we might not need to know it as it wouldn't be broken down into our concept of time. I like this AE person. Quite inquisitive.
Before we were here, prior to thought would you agree time exists? Do you follow me? Do you think we can exist without thought?
The process of time messes people up… as you say, it leads to control.. People live with concepts of birth, death aging. Not that that doesn't happen but time sets up construct of past, future.. where folks can't live in the now.. and are always hurrying up to get to where they already are; as well as see 'home' as outside of here.
What if this is home? We are already complete, whole… imo. It's not a search to be found outside of what simply is, being. We separate from ourselves using time as a method in itself… and project we are somewhere to be found. The 'who am I?' delusion, and I am other than this.
Perhaps, everyone is trying to come home, find answers, but they are already here, home. Dream or not.
We are what we seek and are looking for and do not realise it… I would say.
Does God need to be outside of us having a dream?
Do you mean string theory? holographic universe stuff? This is rather far out. I'm a mind person already, infp type 5, subwing 4 (right brain), so I can get far out there with esoteric ideologies… so I need to reel myself in. It's very fascinating though.
Anything is possible in theory. I might be dreaming 'right now' … and it's okay to not know.. This is where life comes in.. Do I need to decide?
If God is originator, how do you know this God might not be in a dream as well… Must there be a single dreamer for a dream?
--
I was referring to time created on a linear perspective. I suppose time as we know it, you say .. yes.
In this it is an illusion as it can be damaging, but also yes ….keep everything from happening at once, in one sense. but in another sense if everything happened at once we might not need to know it as it wouldn't be broken down into our concept of time. I like this AE person. Quite inquisitive.
Before we were here, prior to thought would you agree time exists? Do you follow me? Do you think we can exist without thought?
The process of time messes people up… as you say, it leads to control.. People live with concepts of birth, death aging. Not that that doesn't happen but time sets up construct of past, future.. where folks can't live in the now.. and are always hurrying up to get to where they already are; as well as see 'home' as outside of here.
What if this is home? We are already complete, whole… imo. It's not a search to be found outside of what simply is, being. We separate from ourselves using time as a method in itself… and project we are somewhere to be found. The 'who am I?' delusion, and I am other than this.
Perhaps, everyone is trying to come home, find answers, but they are already here, home. Dream or not.
We are what we seek and are looking for and do not realise it… I would say.
Does God need to be outside of us having a dream?
Do you mean string theory? holographic universe stuff? This is rather far out. I'm a mind person already, infp type 5, subwing 4 (right brain), so I can get far out there with esoteric ideologies… so I need to reel myself in. It's very fascinating though.
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GodandLove
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I AM everything.
methamaniac
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I do feel like I am in a dream, sometimes I don't.. This is because I can be quite dissociated.
Anything is possible in theory. I might be dreaming 'right now' … and it's okay to not know.. This is where life comes in.. Do I need to decide?
If God is originator, how do you know this God might not be in a dream as well… Must there be a single dreamer for a dream?
--
I was referring to time created on a linear perspective. I suppose time as we know it, you say .. yes.
In this it is an illusion as it can be damaging, but also yes ….keep everything from happening at once, in one sense. but in another sense if everything happened at once we might not need to know it as it wouldn't be broken down into our concept of time. I like this AE person. Quite inquisitive.
Before we were here, prior to thought would you agree time exists? Do you follow me? Do you think we can exist without thought?
The process of time messes people up… as you say, it leads to control.. People live with concepts of birth, death aging. Not that that doesn't happen but time sets up construct of past, future.. where folks can't live in the now.. and are always hurrying up to get to where they already are; as well as see 'home' as outside of here.
What if this is home? We are already complete, whole… imo. It's not a search to be found outside of what simply is, being. We separate from ourselves using time as a method in itself… and project we are somewhere to be found. The 'who am I?' delusion, and I am other than this.
Perhaps, everyone is trying to come home, find answers, but they are already here, home. Dream or not.
We are what we seek and are looking for and do not realise it… I would say.
Does God need to be outside of us having a dream?
Do you mean string theory? holographic universe stuff? This is rather far out. I'm a mind person already, infp type 5, subwing 4 (right brain), so I can get far out there with esoteric ideologies… so I need to reel myself in. It's very fascinating though.
On time,
Yes time exist but not as you know it.
It doesnt just flow in one direction. That is the illusion your mind has created, or more was designed to create. I believe the thought creates time as soon as it goes into motion. How would you measure time in your dream if not? No mass in a dream that I am aware of.
Time is simply a measurement. Its not tangible.
Its a frequency of another dimension. Its describes how an object moves thru space.
You can express it mathematically. If you look at dimensions in terms of frequencies/vibrations its a lot easier to picture time.
Frequencies vibrating at different "pitches".
I have a good feeling I know what this "sound" is.
Its a voice. Speaking to us as it "speaks" things into existence.
I mentioned quantum entanglenent as an example to show that time is completely relative.
In our universe it is an illusion. We can only see an infinitely small slice of an illusion of it because we are trapped in "flat land". We are dimensionally restricted in access.
Now consider that we also know matter can be seen as an illusion (vibrating light/energy)
and you may start to see why a lot of quantum physicist say we are living in a hologram.
I say dream/imagination but im not going to parse hairs over semantics.
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Smoky
Bluelight Crew
I must say we are indeed dimensionally restricted…. I can grasp that and have ruminated on it frequently… my mind shuts off at limits, or perhaps we are not evolved to this realization.. at least experientially physically. At least I'm not… ![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
I went through phase when I was religiously watching videos about these examples of frequencies you mention… It then just became very profound and I ceased the search..
Perhaps I will reinvestigate. Thank you...
I went through phase when I was religiously watching videos about these examples of frequencies you mention… It then just became very profound and I ceased the search..
Perhaps I will reinvestigate. Thank you...
swilow
Bluelight Crew
mm said:
In what sense is matter "vibrating light/energy"? The force keeping matter together is usually considered to be the strong interaction, not electromagnetism.
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Smoky
Bluelight Crew
Good question. I would say yes, look into 'thought formations'
There are many levels which are carried with the observer that will effect a later outcome.
methamaniac
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In its fundamental state, matter, or mass, is a standing wave. Mass is vibrating space quanta locked in ongoing interaction.
Energy frequency and vibration do have there differences.
Energy expanding and contracting/oscilating is what determines vibrarional frequency rate by how the expansion and contraction takes place.
Everything seems to have a "pulse".
Matter is basically condensed light. To be more precise, matter is a projection of energy and therefore it behaves more like an illusion. Frequency and vibration allow light and sound to have expression, giving them unique properties and characteristics.
Journyman16
Bluelighter
LMAO - a poster with the username of PowerFarts is making butthole jokes? :D Have to ask if it occurred to you that perhaps Sodomy comes from the city name?
On the subject though, the comments about dreams being real and real being dreams...
Download 3 books by Robert Monroe. 'Journeys Out of Body,' 'Far Journeys' and 'Ultimate Journey.' They aren't particularly long but should make fascinating reading for anyone interested in these types of questions.
Monroe is the guy who invented Holosync. (I think - he might have invented hemisync - he invented the system anyway and someone else used the technology and named it the other one so they didn't risk a legal suit) But his books were not, unlike many inventors, designed to aid his holosync sales nor even the Monroe Institute that ran courses and sold CD's to help people reach altered states.
Tends to make things a bit more believable when they're written solely to record something and not as a sales tool. And Monroe is not a mystic nor a preacher; his books are written from the perspective of a down-to-earth engineer type, so if you are a bit mystical and practical science stuff isn't your bag you may struggle a bit because the language is plain and everyday.
There's a part that you might notice that fascinates me - it's in one of the descriptions about how Beings enter a life. See what you think.
I have experienced OoBE or OBE a few times and only a few. I seek to do it again. It changes your views about life and death once you feel yourself exiting. It can be strange out there so be cautious. Affirmations that nothing harmful can approach you and only entities with good intentions to help you are useful.
Monroe's experiences are pretty amazing and don't have much to do with any of the established dogmas or religious stories... except... :D well I will leave that for you to determine yourself.
Journyman16
Bluelighter
The first sentence may be closer than the rest.
I favour General Systems Theory (GST - but not the John Howard version :D) because it involves less magic than the other ideas about the universe. In GST the definitions go far deeper than energy as gross (size not nastiness) as EMF. GST posits (& if this is error it is mine, not GST) a kind of Lattice Boltzmann pattern forming aether or if you wish, quantum foam. Lattice Boltzmann pattern forming (if I have the name right) occurs without cause when two different fluids or substances are placed together.
If I understand it right, some substances form a static pattern while others form a pattern that expands and then starts again. The analogy is that the static patterns are matter and the 'moving' ones are energy.
It's been a while and I need to re-read the book. If you're interested it's 'Genesis of the Cosmos' by Paul LaViolette. He also has a fascinating book called 'Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion' - both are worth getting and reading carefully.
methamaniac
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TOTAL energy includes energy in any form.
In other words everything is "energy."
Therefore whatever this "energy" is made up of at the tinest level is what everthing is made of.
A atom is 99.9 percent empty space. And what makes an atom up is 99.9 percent empty space.
And so on.
Everyting is basically empty space and energy.
So to say we live in a hologram is true imo.
Energy seems to be nothing and something at the same time.
Nobody can tell you what "energy " is without describing what it does.
Put simply, energy just "is". It is the great I Am!
It is "is" in motion.
But back to the the dream,
Im really questioning seperating dream from "reality". What if (who knows) everything you experience is a dream. What makes it "real" is
significance. If something is significant to you it becomes real, and everything else "disappears".
Like I said earlier your thoughts have a potential to become real. You are your thoughts
so you have a potential to become real.
In "reality" you may be building yourself.
In other words everything is "energy."
Therefore whatever this "energy" is made up of at the tinest level is what everthing is made of.
A atom is 99.9 percent empty space. And what makes an atom up is 99.9 percent empty space.
And so on.
Everyting is basically empty space and energy.
So to say we live in a hologram is true imo.
Energy seems to be nothing and something at the same time.
Nobody can tell you what "energy " is without describing what it does.
Put simply, energy just "is". It is the great I Am!
It is "is" in motion.
But back to the the dream,
Im really questioning seperating dream from "reality". What if (who knows) everything you experience is a dream. What makes it "real" is
significance. If something is significant to you it becomes real, and everything else "disappears".
Like I said earlier your thoughts have a potential to become real. You are your thoughts
so you have a potential to become real.
In "reality" you may be building yourself.
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