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How do I ameliorate blood pressure increase while on MXE and 4-Aco-DMT?

M

Mahakali

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2014
Messages
19
Hi folks,

As a current user of these substances, I notice great jumps in BP, upwards of 160/105...I am not comfortable with that level.

I take calcium, magnesium, celery seed, Cat's claw, Feverfew, and some other stuff...but nothing is super effective.

Aside from abstaining, how could I lower my BP?

Thanks
 
Wow; I take 3 meds for blood pressure and never have BP increase problems when using 4-AcO-DMT. Mind you, I take my meds about 1 1/2 hours before I dose and I'm getting peak plasma levels of antihypertensives just when the 4-AcO-DMT starts to kick in. Short of abstaining, additional drugs are the answer, but I do *NOT* advocate taking these types of drugs without good medical reason.

Do you know what your normal bp is?

Also, if you don't mind me asking; how much 4-AcO-DMT are you using at one go? The most I've consumed with no increase in bp is ~27 mg fumarate.

Tom
 
My normal BP is ~120/80....I know that the MXE bumps up the BP more than the ACO...I suppose I should just find some prescription BP drugs...it may also be related to the fact that these substances exacerbate type A personality behaviors in me - i.e. I become egomaniac...I do it on purpose so that I can better try to observe the root source of such ego excessiveness.
 
Dissociatives are probably the strongest ego strengthening tools I've ever encountered. Psychedelics proper are going to soften your ego, but disso's can lead you to a (long-lasting) temporary state of egomania. I had a massive ego when I was using MXE/K regularly, even after some period of sobriety. I think it has to do with the nature of the trip, feeling like you are at the center of everything, you sometimes begin to actually think you are.

Clonidine is a drug that is commonly used as a first-line against hypertension. I've used it and noticed it greatly reduced BP increases due to amphetamines.
 
Mahakali said:
My normal BP is ~120/80....I know that the MXE bumps up the BP more than the ACO...I suppose I should just find some prescription BP drugs...it may also be related to the fact that these substances exacerbate type A personality behaviors in me - i.e. I become egomaniac...I do it on purpose so that I can better try to observe the root source of such ego excessiveness.
Click to expand...

Here is what I take;
-Labetalol HCl 300mg twice a day
-Amiodipine besylate 5mg twice a day
-Fosinopril HCl 20mg once a day

The Labetalol has been reduced from 600mg twice a day, 12 years ago, to what it is currently. The Amiodipine has been reduced from some ungodly number 12 years ago to what it is currently. Fosinopril has been cut in half.

It's odd, but the reason I like 4-AcO-DMT is because it calms me down :) If you do go with prescription b[ meds, please be very careful. Occasionally I still get orthostatic hypotension when standing from a sitting position, or standing up from laying down. Once I passed out and smacked my head on the floor after getting up from the couch to answer the door. But you're probably not going to be taking large quantities of these or very often.

Good luck man.

Tom
 
Look into and experiment with: theobromine, nicotinic acid, l-arginine, mild dose of benzodiazepine, possibly weed depending on the strain
 
thanks for that info MyExcuse...clonidine is something I have been prescribed before and so I can get it again easily

i like to mix dissociatives with the tryptamines...i consider it right/left fusion...satan/god, yin/yang, etc...
 
Since you take herbs it must be cautioned that some herbs especially in higher quantities can cause hypertension. Ginsing, for example at levels of 3-4 grams tends to lower blood pressure, but when there is an excess of it the body attempts to get rid of it by raising blood pressure to to force it out through the kidneys. Here is a link to a list and other comments: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/hypertension.htm
 
Breathing, exercises, cannabis, maybe propranolol or another beta blocker? Or something like clonidine?
 
Could try Motherwort tincture. One of its effects is vasodilation so it should reduce blood pressure some.
 
l-norvaline--pde-5 inhibitor, vasodialator
glycine propionyl-l-carnitine--vasodilator via no2
agmatine--vasodialator/NMDA antagonist, alpha 2 adrenergic agonist - similar in action to clonidine, called clonidine displacing substance----may potentiate mxe
l-citrulline-metabolite of arginine- no2 precursor
l-arginine-no2 vasodialator
the above are common amino acids found at supplement stores and the internet and are synergistic with each other.

hawthorn berry-- is a supposed natural beta blocker
omega-3 oils--thins blood
icariin (active in horny goat weed)-vasodialator via PDE-5 inhibition, testosterone mimetic, anti-carcinogen


ive got plenty more as this was a problem for me, all of these above are OTC.

pharms- low dose or tolerance considered fast acting benzodiazepine( will negate the psychedelic effects of NMDA antagonist to a degree)
beta blockers-propranolol/metoprolol
alpha2 agonists-clonidine
opioids- dangerous synergistic depressant effects but will usually lower blood pressure- not condoning unless experienced


AND MOST OF ALL electrolytes vit C and tons of water, obviously don't kill yourself with water but when ever you use any drug-legal/grey/illegal make sure to stay generously hydrated
and food in your system( unless nausea is a issue with a particular compound) water water water !!!!!
 
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Do NOT take a beta blocker. They work by lowering heart rate but increase the amount of blood leaving the heart with each beat. Add vasoconstriction to the mix caused by the drugs OP has outlined (although nothing like MPA/MDPV still caution advised) and MI, stroke, PE, thrombus etc are all risks. Benzo's relax muscles such as cardiac tissue. They are used eg IV/IM lorazepam 1 mg in ED/ER setting for stimulant OD's. Caution is advised and some research into pharmacodynamics of the various substances prior to taking the substances in question. Better to be informed prior to taking a substance then taking something and having zero knowledge of how to safely counter adverse reactions that may be experienced. MIMS is a good start. Medical index manual...
 
A dose of kratom during or before the come up always reduces my BP to a comfortable level without dulling the experience. Any non stimulating strain will work although IME Bali in particular produces moderate vasodilation
 
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beta blockers are a no no for compounds like -mdpv,methyl/ethylphenidate,cocaine, a-pvp basically NDRI's especially in overdose, as it causes un apposed action on other adrenergic receptors.

I added those just as basic tools for either the day after to ''take stress of a over worked heart'' .

Agmatine sulfate+ propionyl-l-carnitine can do wonders and drops my diastolic while I have used mxe by 20pts

For any one trying harm reduction in general these amino acids on a empty stomach 30 min prior to ingestion of a said substance can do wonders to make the experience a lot more smoothe.

As I said before agmatine behaves similar to clonidine but you will have to take into consideration its a NMDA antagonist and will synergize well with MXE @ 3grams and above

BTW agmatine works wonders if you fin yourself using mxe everday and need a break but are psychologically dependent to a degree.

I always wondered through what mechanism mxe and other nmda antagonists cause a rise on BP.
 
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I have been gone for a while and haven't even spent time researching, because basically I have had no money and been unable to source anything...I am going to read and re-read all this stuff and work something out somehow. I have been in depression states and not even caring about my blood pressure at all - just letting it ride high. Had an appointment with my psychiatrist, but she went on vacation...just lost in the shuffle...I'll be back at some point.

I sincerely appreciate all the input and energy guys...there is enough stuff here for me to research/experiment with for a while, once I get going again.
 
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