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How did Alexander Shulgin get his DEA License?

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blase deviant

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And does anyone know what his proposal(s) might've looked like, or even the general gist of them?
 
interesting thread lol i have no idea but according to rick strassman's book, the spirit molecule, it wasnt that easy for him to get the DEA license for his DMT research.
 
Ima send this to advanced drug discussion. I know it aint quite what they specialize in , but i know that the people there would be far better educated to answer this question for you than anyone in DC. ADD mods, I hope you dont mind, but do what you gotta do with this. but this one aint gettin no answers in here, so we dont want it back if you dont ;)
 
He applied for it:
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugreg/index.html

He was a chemist doing research and various favors for the DEA (drug analysis) at the time, and it was no big deal back in the day to get one because the DEA was a very new organization (much like marijuana tax stamps when they first came about)

He'd been doing research of psychotomimetic drugs for ages, the DEA has only been around since '73, so it was in the best interest of the DEA at the time to have him helping them as a consultant
 
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My analytical chemistry professor is DEA Schedule I licensed. I'll ask him more about it, and if he has anything valuable to pitch in I'll be sure to pass it on.
 
At least in the UK, on provision that you have a commercial property and have at least 2 people (batman & robin; sherlock & watson) then getting a license to make class B drugs isnt that difficult.

That includes, for example, making valium and ketamine amongst lots of others. More of an issue is that you are legally only supposed to sell to people who have a license to buy class B drugs.

Given that a company must be making money to stay afloat, the second point is more of an issue that initially getting a license.

The bottom line is you need to be a real company and they arent going to legally allow people to do anything from a residential address such as a garage.
 
I'm also very interested in this. I'd like to go into the chemical field that would allow me to work with schedule 1 and 2 drugs. What would be a good way to start out?
 
So basically you're not gonna get a license to test drugs on yourself, LOL?

I was looking at a chemistry catalog, and it was amazing the prices they had for bulk Ketamine.
 
altitudes said:
I'm also very interested in this. I'd like to go into the chemical field that would allow me to work with schedule 1 and 2 drugs. What would be a good way to start out?
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I don't think the process would be the same now as it was then for Dr. Shulgin. The DEA is probably wary of anyone who might turn out to be the next Shulgin.

Perhaps you could try to get in touch with Dr. Parker, Dr. Nichols or others who have continued Shulgin's work? This is assuming that you are a professional chemist or studying to be one, which of course would be pre-requisite for entering this field.

I assume that if the DEA were willing to grant these licenses again, it would only be to someone very well-established as a chemist with experience in both drug-related and non drug-related fields. They would also probably only grant them to people willing to follow DEA policy explicitly. That would mean testing drugs on mice rather than friends, keeping clear records (no anonymous samples), and not publishing writing that criticizes DEA policy or encourages the decriminalization of drugs.
 
Anyone know the legalities of a person testing a novel drug/chemical on themselves?

I.e shulgin makes or extracts new compound at home - tests it on himself, his friends.

Always wondered whether this is in fact 100% legal and whether they could in theory take legal action via some health & safety, chemical hazard, poisons law which could technically be enforced. [Or possibly does he require a license to have a lab which could be revoked]

Also as a seperate thing, does the current analogue act prevent Shulgin from creating new drugs (related to known illegal PEAs but not themselves illegal) and testing them on himself? Or does that only apply for the sale of such chemicals?

I guess the real power comes from being vague.
 
This question is more legal than pharmacological, I would guess that: there's no way you're getting a DEA license for anything that has to do with recreational or personal use of drugs.
If you have a Ph.D. in some biological or chemical science, and are doing important research then, I'd guess, you can get a DEA license
 
It's hard to work for those guys. I applied to work for Kozikowski but they basically wanted me to already have a PhD beforehand. If you are in the USA though, im assuming that the locks on the doors would be easier to pick. If you can get onto a team that is already doing this type of research, then that is to be the preferred option. In the UK though, we dont have these types of research programs over here, and even if there is, the chances are they are the first vacancies to fill. Therefore it's easier to get funding to do study on peripheral diseases than CNS disorders.
 
Shulgin was pretty freaking lucky, imho. There's little chance that the DEA would ever issue a license like that to someone in his line of work today.

I think the most important question (tounge in cheek) is how much of their 'stuff' gets diverted? I mean, if you're working with the absolute newest psychedelics (I assume they're monitored less than the nicomorphine) you're gonna want to taste the ones that look promising, no?

What's the point of looking at 5HT2a receptor agonists if they're not going to be applied to psychotherapy or some purpose in humans and instead get labelled Schedule One three days after you're done studying it?
 
Exactly, i was wondering what it would be like to work for Nichols as a chemist. I'd want to eat the stuff, if it looked good anyway, surely it would be easy to make off with a small amount. Could just say oh yeah the yield on that last step sucked.
The people that work for him are obviously interested in psychedelics, i wonder if some of them do this?
 
dorothyperkins said:
Exactly, i was wondering what it would be like to work for Nichols as a chemist. I'd want to eat the stuff, if it looked good anyway, surely it would be easy to make off with a small amount. Could just say oh yeah the yield on that last step sucked.
The people that work for him are obviously interested in psychedelics, i wonder if some of them do this?
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Might be harder to test it without getting noticed (depends if he would allow it - prob not being a professor in respectable position). You'd expect though as members of his research team he would get to know them and considering the chemicals would be completely novel they would require a proper work up from microgram (or less) doses. If it was say LSD someone can easily hide use by say doing it on the weekend but dosing for example b-dragonfly (before anything at all is known about it, I.e not like RC's off net) might take every weekend for quite a while.

Also if anything did go horribly wrong and end up in hospital it would be your career gone.

Wouldn't be surprised if they made off with small amounts though (possibly for future) or of known compounds. Probably happens all over medicinal chem. *cough* F&B *cough* ;)
 
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No there's no way you could just say 'im gonna take some of this home!' And yeah you'd have to be careful with the dose, though knowing the binding affinity would help there, a luxury Shulgin probably wishes he had!
I was going to say, maybe he keeps them so busy that they dont have time for taking 24+ hr duration drugs!
 
Nichols has said he had three grad students interested in psychedelics coming from a "bluelightish perspective" (my words, not his, i dont remember his) and none of them really worked out in his lab. The interview is on the heffter website.

It's not tough at all to get a DEA license if you are a well established researcher even not pharmacology/med chem related. I work between two labs that have them, one for a cocaine sensor using DNA-aptamers and one a GHB sensor. The GHB lab also uses it for acetyl-choline transporter studies.

An individual getting one? HAH! good luck. Shulgin was well, well established before he got his and is a very unique story, and frankly, he did sort of ruin it for other people, which i hold him completely unaccountable for :)
 
Shulgin was indeed lucky, especially since he had a home lab. To get a DEA license, you need an established history of scientific investigation, and you would be subjected to extensive background checks. You would also have to have a professional place of work where people would know what you're up to. Granted, the DEA inspected his home lab, but they didn't know what he was doing on Saturday nights. That naivete is gone. The honeymoon is over.

I don't see the DEA handing out licenses to home chemists ever again.
 
strictly speaking the 1988? analogue act makes it pretty much impossible for any researcher whether licensed or not to taste the substances or test them in humans. officially at least.
Indeed strassman had to jump through huge numbers of hoops to get the permission for the DMT studies in humans and DMT is hardly novel.
that said 'laboratory accidents' involving the ingestion of novel substances are commonplace in both academic and commercial environments.
 
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