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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics How deep is the state (the deep state)

@alasdairm Do you know anything about UFO lore?

I don't believe the "deep state" exists in the way that many people here claim it does, but if you dig into UFO lore it's fairly conclusive that there are indeed elements of "government" that operate above top secret with zero accountability from congress or elected officials, regardless if UFOs are actually real or not (that doesn't matter for the question at hand).

My idea of the "deep state" in the flavor they talk about is really just billionaires doing underhanded deals with corrupt politicians. That's the real deep state, although I'm not sure if that qualifies under their definition of what they think it is.

But, I do believe it exists in some forms, just not in the way they think. No, it's not coordinated or centralized.

Either way, it's almost impossible to present evidence that would fly in a courtroom to prove its existence, due to it's very nature of operation. The billionaire thing would be easy to prove, but they're protected by their puppets.

Indeed there is no evil Jewish globalist cabal deep state, that's rather silly. It's compartmentalized, not centralized.
 
yeah, if i wasn't clear i do think there are elements of the government/establishment which operate outwith the confines of regular accountability.

but i agree that it's not coordinated nor centralized.

alasdair
 
i'll stop denying it when you do something, anything, to substantiate your claim.

also i am not "the left". do i lean left? sure. do i typically vote left? sure. do i speak for the entire left? of course not.

saying "the left are deniers" because one leftie asked you to back up your claim is, frankly, [deleted due to ad hominem attack]

alasdair
 
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"it starts with the FBI and CIA and the authoritarian bureaucratic officials, the likes of Fauci. During ol' Covid."

this is not proof of a deep state. it your opinion. and a pretty broad one at that.

alasdair
 
Remember when they published a long article about the deep state?

a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it
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time.com

The Secret History of the Shadow Campaign That Saved the 2020 Election

For more than a year, a loosely organized coalition of operatives scrambled to shore up America’s institutions
time.com time.com
 
I think the deep state gets to every president and says we’ll shoot you dead if you don’t do what we say. That’s an opinion.
 
Is there a specific article you'd recommend? That's just a website consisting of a wide variety of different articles such as 'The 1775 two step that lead to American independence'
ions said:
Here’s a good resource.

Mises institute
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So how has the deep state gotten to our current president?
ions said:
I think the deep state gets to every president and says we’ll shoot you dead if you don’t do what we say. That’s an opinion.
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If I'm not mistaken, the deep state is believed to represent the influence and reach of embedded bureaucrats - the very people that DOGE and Trump have purported to root out and fire (at the expense of civic infrastructure). We once referred to these people as The Civil Service. Non-partisan professionals whose role was to keep government running and serving no one ideological interest. By gutting them, we've created an unstable state that is more beholden to political will (which at the moment is Trumpian but may very soon become radically liberal if the beginnings of a popular left rising are to be taken with any more than a grain of salt). The civil service was meant to be a bullwark against reactionary government, ensuring that things would continue to run despite which team had won the world series that term.

Now we've got hyperpartisanism run amok; pawning the chandeliers and selling crypto, cologne, and cell phones in return because all of the civil servants got put on temporary administrative leave thanks to DOGE.

Is there a power elite in this country? Absolutely. Any time you provide humans with power structures there are some whose skills, position, and privilege will afford them the means to cease and leverage power as much as possible.

What do you want to do about it?
 
jasperkent said:
There is no "deep state."
In fact, it's pretty damn shallow.

There is some malevolence, but it's mostly just incompetence.
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The closest thing I can think of as far as a power elite wielding outward power is The Fed and the risen oligarchs of Fin/Tech. I don't think that such influence actually operates within government so much as around government.
 
tryptakid said:
What do you want to do about it?
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That’s a very good question. I think Elon and doge were designed to dismantle the state. However that was halted and nothing went through other to make public the waste there. I think getting libertarians into office would do good. It’s just so republican and democrat dominant in the us.

What’s going to happen is they will continue to print money to the point the dollar is worthless and collapses. And there will no longer be any trust in the dollar to fund deep state activity.
 
ions said:
That’s a very good question. I think Elon and doge were designed to dismantle the state. However that was halted and nothing went through other to make public the waste there. I think getting libertarians into office would do good. It’s just so republican and democrat dominant in the us.

What’s going to happen is they will continue to print money to the point the dollar is worthless and collapses. And there will no longer be any trust in the dollar to fund deep state activity.
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Frankly, most of the waste that was made public seems to have been largely over-emphasized. Their cuts have been pretty minor overall since the vast majority of our budgetary commitments involve military spending, debt payments, and health care. The cuts that DOGE made seem like they'll save very little money while eroding the upside good that was coming from them - American soft power/cultural influence for doing good things that people had come to appreciate and rely on.

So you're saying the goal from the deep state is to print money until it becomes unable to hold value and fund their own activity? I'm not sure I follow you there.
 
tryptakid said:
Frankly, most of the waste that was made public seems to have been largely over-emphasized. Their cuts have been pretty minor overall since the vast majority of our budgetary commitments involve military spending, debt payments, and health care. The cuts that DOGE made seem like they'll save very little money while eroding the upside good that was coming from them - American soft power/cultural influence for doing good things that people had come to appreciate and rely on.

So you're saying the goal from the deep state is to print money until it becomes unable to hold value and fund their own activity? I'm not sure I follow you there.
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I think the feds are unaware that their empire will reach a point where it can not afford to operate. It’s just uncertain whether the empire will collapse before nuclear holocaust.
 
And yeah the cuts that were attempted were insignificant compared to the deficit every year. I have a book I’ll take a picture of I’m reading by Ron Paul. On the cover are three examples of deep state activity. MLK, JFK, and RFK.
 
ions said:
And yeah the cuts that were attempted were insignificant compared to the deficit every year. I have a book I’ll take a picture of I’m reading by Ron Paul. On the cover are three examples of deep state activity. MLK, JFK, and RFK.
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It's wild to think how disturbing it must've been to be a young american in the early to mid 1960s.
 
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