Misc How come chemists can't make barbiturates?

[tarman]

What exactly is preventing chemists from clandestinely manufacturing barbiturates? Is there an ingredient that's super rare? Is the overall process too complex without fancy equipment?

I just have heard so much about these things. They're legendary. And not because of that shitty wolf of overracting street movie. I remember wondering about them when some lady in a Cheech and Chong movie mentioned them.

 

[Tryptamite]

It's possible though probably not financially profitable or perhaps even viable.
Only drug nerds like us want barbs n ludes.

The rest of society are happy with the. Much safer benzo when life calls for help calming down.

 

[supersonic89]

First man. I can't pass up that insult for that great movie. One of the best of Marty without a doubt. LOL I'm just kidding man.

Second. The quaalaludes were barbs really? I always thought they were of another species.

Third. I guess it's not economically viable for clandestine laboratories since benzos are much cheaper and just as popular as quaalaludes in the 70s. Although it has always made me curious and I would like to try that drug thanks to that movie anyway.

Apparently it only exists legally in South Africa (where it is widely abused and there is a conspiracy theory about that for that is another matter lol). Dark net, nobody?

 

[supersonic89]

It's possible though probably not financially profitable or perhaps even viable.
Only drug nerds like us want barbs n ludes.

The rest of society are happy with the. Much safer benzo when life calls for help calming down.

were barbs more euphoric than benzos anyway?

 

[bingey]

Yes mandrax is smoked in southafrica not technically a barb though

 

[Tryptamite]

Ludes are not barbs. Smoked in SA. Sold in pharmacies in India and parts of Asia.
Purish powder on dark net from time to time but expensive.

There was a criminal organisation that made their own methaqualone and pressed rorer or lemmon pills and sold them to older users who would rembwr them and who were now successful enough to pay for the incredibly rare and expsive real ludes
Think this was in NYC, USA
Not just diazepam and diphenhydramine!

 

[negrogesic]

Barbiturates aren't attractive drugs to make illicitly since they are hard to synthesize, are low in potency and have low demand.

With all the bartards around its good these types of drugs aren't around.

Methaqualone analogs are more common as RCs than barbiturates. The time I messed around with etaqualone (a methaqualone analog sold as an RC) I nearly died (I was on benzos too). I was smoking etaqualone it my bathroom, and next thing i know its 6 days later and im waking up intubated in an ICU. Its the closest ive come to dying. I wasnt breathing and my heart had stopped apparently. They ended up putting me in a medically induced coma for a number of days. Then all of sudden i woke up. They figured I'd have brain damage due to hypoxia but I was fine.

I was a hardass and never told them what I had taken. Etaqualone is undetectable.

 

[supersonic89]

Minor correction: for sure not legal in South Africa. Were this the case: I'd be shipping (Mandrax, a brand name, and is a combination of Methaqualone and Diphenhydramine within the same tablet) to the rest of the world on an industrial scale I assure you! Mandrax is produced clandestinely here (and not by chemists and usually in some backyard setting i.e. wouldn't exactly call them laboratories) (and from what I gather it's not an exact science either i.e. for sure no quality control or standards being implemented and adhered to). Also: Quaalude was merely a brand name (contained Methaqualone only). Methaqualone is a Quinazolinone class of drug i.e. not a Barbiturate. Pentobarbital (brand name Nembutal) is a Barbiturate and is indeed synthesized in China (seen one or two members mentioning using Nembutal powder ordered from China). Obviously not only in China though i.e. Nembutal is legit manufactured elsewhere but not something you'll get your hands on given its scheduling status the world over (although apparently Mexico would be your source of choice but this being Nembutal in liquid form and usually sought for the purposes of suicide).

As for the conspiracy theories: they're just that and nothing more.

Got damn. I thought the Mandrax was legal.

Was it ever legal?

Apparently, Mandrax was the popular one in Europe and Quaalude in the United States.

I don't know I read or watch about the conspiracy thing, but it must have been in an article / video in some shitty tabloid.

 

[supersonic89]

It was legal at one stage but in truth I had to look it up now as to when is became illegal and found this:

"After the Second World War, mandrax emerged as another important psychoactive substance. Following the identification of its abuse potential, mandrax was removed from the legal market and classified as a prohibited dependence-producing drug in part I of the schedule of the South African narcotics law (Act 41 of 1971)."

I'm guessing from that (and without actually looking for and reading the Act that is was banned in 1971.

The conspiracy purports that it was being produced by the South African Government as a means of crowd control or a means to control the masses. It's a stretch at best.

(Mind you: don't put my mind into overdrive! Things have changed. Carfentanil and Ohmefentanyl come to mind now for crowd control so far as I'm concerned!)

Here's a video in which it (the conspiracy) is mentioned (also gives you some insights and a bit of history and shows clearly under what conditions it's made and some really fucking funny video footage of people falling over after a hit of what's called a "White Pipe" i.e. a combination of crushed Mandrax and weed) (it never gets old watching one or two of these dues falling on their face)!



If it gives you that "cannot be shown in your country" (or whatever bullshit like that) then let me know and I'll find another link and replace it here.

It was from that video that I got the idea of the conspiracy and then I looked for information and, apparently, various people believed it possible. I remember now.

There was a time when I was really into this conspiracies thing when I was young (except for the ridiculous like the reptilian ones or the earth is flat lol). And I found this one interesting.

Maybe cause In Chile, there is a similar idea/conspiracy in some circles, that Pinochet introduced drugs (cocaine pasta base *) in the most marginal neighborhoods. At least, it is proven that Pinochet and the army had ties to drug traffickers.

* similar drug to crack cocaine

 

[Foerock]

The street heroin/morphine in Saudi Arabia from 2013-2017 was testing people positive for barbiturates at the detox center in Riyadh. I've done that stuff myself (yellow powder) and it just feels like normal dope. Then again I've never used a stand-alone barbiturate so I have nothing to compare to. Don't know if it's still the same now I ain't been back there in years.

Edit: Come to think of it, it is a bit different. The old white stuff in Saudi and the brown/white in America [2003-2008] were all more like what you would call "classic" heroin. Everyone blamed the different feel of the yellow stuff on it being mostly morphine, but now that I think about the guys testing positive for barbiturates, I wonder.

 

[trashpanda206]

What exactly is preventing chemists from clandestinely manufacturing barbiturates? Is there an ingredient that's super rare? Is the overall process too complex without fancy equipment?

I just have heard so much about these things. They're legendary. And not because of that shitty wolf of overracting street movie. I remember wondering about them when some lady in a Cheech and Chong movie mentioned them.

We've been wondering the same thing! I would love to try them.

 

[Bella Figura]

Speaking of luudes, I was once a member of some invite only drug forum and someone was selling 'Mandrax crystals'. I received some in the mail but was too paranoid that it could have been methyl-methaqualone i.e. totally different dosage.

I did end up bombing a tiny bit and felt fuck all and binned the rest being the responsible member of society and exemplary harm reduction advocate that I am.

 

[bongdong]

Curious: anyone think there's an International market for a quality controlled drug of the type being discussed? Need opinions for a research paper!

There is, in countries where euthanasia/assisted suicide is legal, pentobarbital (Nembutal) is still in use respectively was at the time I was reading up on this topic. And with all folks that want to take matters in their own hands regardless of legal status. It's an effective and pain-free way to go, but only as sure as you know what you get. So this hypothetical 'quality controlled market' would certainly be international, but perhaps with not much long-term customers.

For what journal/conference are you writing?

 

[G_Chem]

Barbiturates aren't attractive drugs to make illicitly since they are hard to synthesize, are low in potency and have low demand.

With all the bartards around its good these types of drugs aren't around.

Methaqualone analogs are more common as RCs than barbiturates. The time I messed around with etaqualone (a methaqualone analog sold as an RC) I nearly died (I was on benzos too). I was smoking etaqualone it my bathroom, and next thing i know its 6 days later and im waking up intubated in an ICU. Its the closest ive come to dying. I wasnt breathing and my heart had stopped apparently. They ended up putting me in a medically induced coma for a number of days. Then all of sudden i woke up. They figured I'd have brain damage due to hypoxia but I was fine.

I was a hardass and never told them what I had taken. Etaqualone is undetectable.

I remember that, pretty sure it was your story that had me going slow with the Etaqualone.

My dad grew up eating legit Methaqualone (they called em gorilla biscuits cuz of the size) and after trying the Etaqualone said it was decent but still didn’t hold a candle to the old shit.

I completely agree with the rest of your post too, difficulty of synthesis combined with low potency and it’s just not worth it. Especially when kids want them xannys with a tiny little single digit mg dosage.

-GC

 

[tarman]

Thanks for the replies! Interesting stuff. I feel embarrassed though- I thought barbiturates and methaqualone were in the same family, but apparently not. From some light reading, it appears that luudes were meant as a safer alternative to barbiturates.
Now I have 2 drugs on my list to try. I'd be curious how good they'd be for benzo withdrawal. I have this fantasy of rotating drugs to avoid the worst unpleasantness from each taken too long. One week on xanax, next week on luudes, next week on hydromorphone, etc.

 

[Tryptamite]

Yes but the market is small limited by cost and difficulty making product (acquiring precursors), largely unfamiliar client base and cost of the drug per dose.

I saw a gram of UK synth methaqualone for sale for about 70 euro. That's only 3 doses. ~ 300mg a tablet.

The SA production is very crude at least the one we see in the video. These tablets are made for smoking much like ya ba in Asia. But are full of by products and unwashed precursos.

If Interested I would research doing my own synthesis I would feel confident about my skillz but the time and money to obtain and make necessary Chemicals before starting synthetics is what would put me off at minute..

I imagine in Europe and the US an older Chemist might make a batch from time to time outside of the drug economy. Especially if he were to work in a lab with access to some of the intermediates. I'd say they would only be shared with close friends.

You really couldn't put a price on a pressed 350mg methaqualone 25mg diphenhydramine tablet now. The syndicate I mentioned before I bet charged 50 usd per tablet!!

 

[Bonch]

A long time ago my buddy handed me a bunch off pills and said I had to take them all to feel anything( it was weird, hard to explain how it felt) Later that week I tested positive for barbiturates on a drug test! They were like you tested for barbiturates, I said i dont even know what that was (true), they were like yeah that’s weird, probs a false positive! Lol

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

Never tried ludes or barbs but I assume they were just as overhyped as benzos are currently. I was never impressed by benzos, yet people talk them up like they're the greatest thing in the world, I doubt ludes or barbs are any different.

 

[supersonic89]

Never tried ludes or barbs but I assume they were just as overhyped as benzos are currently. I was never impressed by benzos, yet people talk them up like they're the greatest thing in the world, I doubt ludes or barbs are any different.

Yeah man. Agree completely. Even alcohol gives me a little euphoria. But never benzos. Or is it that only people with great anxiety enjoy them? But I'm sure I have social anxiety and they don't give me euphoria either hahaha. So, it must be the other way around. People with little to none anxiety enjoy them?

Apparently the barbs were more booze (so possibly I would have liked a bit more). Or possibly I would be knock out like when I take xanax hahaha.

 

[Foerock]

Never tried ludes or barbs but I assume they were just as overhyped as benzos are currently. I was never impressed by benzos, yet people talk them up like they're the greatest thing in the world, I doubt ludes or barbs are any different.

Dude benzos are tricky to dose. Too little they're lame and don't do much. Too much and you're fucked (blackouts, regrettable decisions etc.). You have to experiment until you get the maximum dose you can handle. And THEN you gotta take breaks cause withdrawal can literally kill you (easier said than done sadly). Also never mix with alcohol (blackout) or heroin (overdose). But God, clonazepam + heroin is GODLY... yeah lost a few friends to that combo.