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How bad is murdering someone?

socko said:
In countries where only those with money and power get legal, state-sanctioned justice, often the only way for the common people to get justice is to take matters into their own hands. I don't know your definition of karma, but afterwards, whatever they do will affect them as far as feelings of guilt, trauma, ptsd,.... Would the world be a better place if that person were given justice and the only way to administer it is outside of the state-sanctioned justice system?
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Many people don't even feel guilt. There are clinical psychopaths who have committed large crimes and never show an inkling of sorrow, and the only regrets they have are that they didn't get away with it... Psychopathy is a diagnosis in DSM V btw...
 
My life has been so ridiculously good and so ridiculously bad.
I guess I would say that if you want to get away with murder
you should become a millionaire first. Then its bad, but
not so bad ( I am not a millionaire).
 
Call me old fashioned, but if murder isn't bad, is anything? You're depriving another sentient being, against their will, of their shot at this game called life, whatever its point or end prize is. Moreover, you're depriving other sentient beings who found the pain of sentient life tolerable largely on account of that one you killed, of an awful lot.

I really think people should stop conflating cold-blooded killers (or even people who find killing people fun) and sociopaths, because they overlap a lot less than you might imagine. Most people with sociopathic tendencies will never find it to their benefit, or enjoyment, to take another's life, and the idea will never cross their mind. They may exploit people in other ways and not feel bad about it, but not murder. Likewise, I reckon a large number of people who've taken joy in killing another person have actually felt pretty bad about it, and actually kind of hate themselves very deeply for having this fetish, and wish they didn't have this itch.

It's just that sociopaths who also happen to enjoy and be good at offing people make really good stories, because they tap into one of our worst fears.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
Call me old fashioned, but if murder isn't bad, is anything? You're depriving another sentient being, against their will, of their shot at this game called life, whatever its point or end prize is. Moreover, you're depriving other sentient beings who found the pain of sentient life tolerable largely on account of that one you killed, of an awful lot.
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nicely put.
blue1995 said:
Obviously I don't think this applies to me.
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how convenient.

q.e.d.

alasdair
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
Call me old fashioned, but if murder isn't bad, is anything? You're depriving another sentient being, against their will, of their shot at this game called life, whatever its point or end prize is. Moreover, you're depriving other sentient beings who found the pain of sentient life tolerable largely on account of that one you killed, of an awful lot.
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I personally find this hard to dispute, but that's because I have core compassion. Do you think the disinclination toward homicide is naturally built into us by cause of empathy? I mean... everyone has experienced being discarded or themselves overlooking someone else, but to actually murder them... I just don't know how one would suppress empathy in that final moment. And likewise, if you have any empathy, how could you live with it?

There's this idea that at our core, all humans are "good", which I take to mean we have some semblance of compassion in each of us. So, to do a deed that harms someone else actually hurts us and robs us a bit of our own innocence whether or not we want to admit it. Our conscious experience will catalogue it. If karma exists, then it surely manifests in this way.

But then... I'm not a murderer. There are people out there who take the lives of others each day: soldiers, executioners, homicidal people, etc. Maybe I'm just too idealistic about it and murder is natural.
 
^I'm too lazy to find a link for this....but there was a study done, or somehow the conclusion was come to that most people during war would actually intentionally shoot over the enemies head rather than shoot to kill them....Supposedly, sometime after WWII the training methods were overhauled so that the reflex to shoot the enemy instilled through training would overcome the natural aversion most people have for taking someone's life...
 
BlueHues said:
^I'm too lazy to find a link for this....but there was a study done, or somehow the conclusion was come to that most people during war would actually intentionally shoot over the enemies head rather than shoot to kill them....Supposedly, sometime after WWII the training methods were overhauled so that the reflex to shoot the enemy instilled through training would overcome the natural aversion most people have for taking someone's life...
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I would LOVE to read that study.
 
q: how bad is murdering someone?

a: somewhere in between beating someone to within an inch of their lives and murdering someone while farting at the same time.
 
We're all trying to make our life happen on this planet and if some maniac decides to put a change to that by ending the life of another human being early, he deserves to be punished.

The only people who deserve to be killed are those who embrace a danger to society. Murderers
 
I believe there are a lot of things that deem murder justifiable.

Rapists and paedophiles deserve worse than murder but for arguments sake.. they deserve to die. Some murderers deserve to be murdered.. Anyone who intentionally kills a completely innocent person basically..

Other than that there are a lot of people on this planet that the human race could do without.. without having committed any crime.. Top level bankers, some lawyers, some politicians, some of the rich cunts running the world.. i think you get the picture.
 
^ maybe the planet could do without you? so ok to kill you?

itt: best way to teach society that killing is wrong is by, er, killing.

ok.

alasdair
 
Sure.. kill me if it does the planet good (it would) but make sure you kill everyone else for the same crime..

I said humanity could do without but sure.. there are some people that are so responsible for the destruction of this planet that they may be up for my "to kill" list.

Actually you know what.. i don't mean that.. If they could just be removed from their position that gives them power to cause so much harm then that'd be good enough.

But as for the ones humanity could do without.. I'm talking about people like Richard Kuklinski, Jon Wayne Gacey, Stuart Hazell and Ian Huntley.. Either the criminally psychopathic or the scum that went too far.. Once you harm an innocent to such a degree they're life becomes (and continues to be) a shredded mess of what it once was / could have been (such is the case of most children that are abused or women who are raped) then you don't deserve to live.

best way to teach society that killing is wrong is by, er, killing.
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Are you honestly implying that legalizing capital punishment for paedophiles*, rapists and some murderers would cause an increase in murder?

*When i say paedophiles I mean people who have actually abused children - harmed another life. If a person finds themselves attracted to children but never acts on it or even more so, seeks help - They get my respect.

What if you have a convicted rapist and you knew he was going to rape again.. if not when he gets out of prison then in prison.. What would you do to this person?

What would you do to a person that brutally raped and murdered your wife and kids?
 
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rickolasnice said:
What would you do to a person that brutally raped and murdered your wife and kids?
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i'd want to rip them limb from limb and watch them suffer before watching them die.

which is why it's probably a good thing that the legal system is not administered by the relatives of crime victims.

i believe that capital punishment is wrong. i believe that teaching society that killing is wrong with more killing is wrong.

you disagree. that's fine.

alasdair
 
I don't believe it should be there as a lesson to society.. I believe it should be there as punishment for serious crimes.

I think the family of victims should have some say in the punishment.. It'd be closer to justice than stay in a cushty cell to someday, maybe, do it again.

NSFW:

Sorry.. I always need to have the last say.. tis the argumentative affect of stimulants i mentioned in a thread somewhere round here the other day ;)
 
there are many concepts which could form the basis of a system of justice: retribution; deterrence; incapacitation; rehabilitation; a combination of and and/or all of them.

you seem to lean more towards retribution. like i say, difference of opinion.

it's interesting that you have to define the cell as "cushty" to make your point.

alasdair
 
Retribution and incapacitation mainly for sure.. I'd consider these to just fall under justice.

There is no evidence (according to my 2 minute researching) to suggest capital punishment deters crime but sure, obviously that'd be a plus.

As for rehabilitation.. There are some people that can't be and some people that don't deserve to be.. Check out a documentary by Louie Theroux called A Place For Paedophiles.. Try and try as they may those men can't shake their sexual urges towards children. You really think a daily visit from a shrink is going to make it ok for Richard Ramirez to walk freely among society.

Props to this man:


How do you rehabilitate a full blown psychopath that loves to rape children?
 
Since you're referring to a fiction illness, there's no way to answer that.

At what point does either pedophilia or psychopathy become "full blown" and therefore punishable by extermination? When does a person become a monster?

People are people no matter what they have done. What you are in favour results in innocent people being killed. How many dead innocents are worth sacrificing for retribution?
 
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