Bupe Hours of research, still scared I don't know how long after H to take subs.

[jjacobsen]

Hi all,

Yes, I know it's answered everywhere. I've read MANY answers. My problem is there were so many DIFFERENT and CONTRADICTORY answers. Those saying moderate withdrawal is enough. Others saying must be severe. Others saying 12-16 for most. OTHERS saying EVERYONE should wait 24 hours minimum.

Insight I would like--what does MODERATE WITHDRAWAL mean to YOU? and SEVERE?
I almost did it last weekend and aborted. After only 9 hours i was miserable--alternating chills and unbearably hot sweats, uncomfortable limbs, anxiety, inability to keep eyes open, and EXTREME constipation. Does anyone think THAT is enough? My only real concern is waiting until i vomit--because then it can just go on forever and I won't be able to keep the subs under my tongue, will waste them in a projectile vomit.
i do know my metabolism vis-a-vis food is faster than many. I'M on about .5 to .75g H per day, for a year, smoked. I so badly want to start but literally feel I wouldn't be able to resist ending it all if I got precipitated withdrawals.
So what IS severe, unbearable, etc. to you? The COWS doesn't really work for me, as I don't get some of the symptoms. I can't tell if I'm in pretty damn moderate withdrawal or just being a wimp after a year of taking a blissful drug.

p.s. Any idea why i was so painfully constipated with rock hard, too-large for passage shit, 14 hours after last dose? My first time withdrawing cold turkey I Remember the opposite--diarrhea, extreme, fairly early on. Could forgoing my daily cup of coffee and morning cigarette have done it?

Thanks for your patience with someone unable to get any clarity from reading all the posts on this topic.

 

[BupeMan14]

Wait so you're telling me that when you go through H withdrawal you can barely keep your eyes open and you have extreme constipation....Wtf Jesus I wish my withdrawal symptoms were like that..


But to answer your question. I find I only have to wait about 10-12 hours to go bsvk to subs. You will only know if you bite the bullet and take the sub.

 

[InHerOwnWrite]

You're building up precipitated withdrawal to be worse than it is. It's nothing to kill yourself over. It's not pleasant, but it only lasts a few hours at most. So just wait as long as you think you can, if you get precipitated wd you'll get through it.

 

[SC_NowLiving]

I'm not a doctor or have any experience, but SWIM has used this for 5 days in a row and he was able to figure out what level of WDs he was encountering. Everyone reacts different and time since first dose varies on weight, dosages used, physical status and mental health.
EDIT:
Level of opiate abuse
Amount of opiates being used previously
Length of time the drug was used
Type of opiates being used
Whether the drug use completely stopped or was just reduced
Individual lifestyle & health related factors

I would recommend to wait until you can't anymore to WDs and if you choose to tamper down there's some great info on BlueLight about some different ways.

MILD-MODERATE Withdrawal Symptoms
Lacrimination (runny eyes)
Rhinorrhoea (runny nose)
Perspiration
Yawning
Restlessness
Insomnia
Dilated pupils
Anorexia/nausea
Weakness
Gooseflesh
Muscle aches, leg cramps
Joint pain, back ache, abdominal cramps
Diarrhoea
Hot and cold flushes
Fatigue
Drug seeking behaviour

Severe Withdrawal symphony's, well no one can tell you what that is or feels like,because they under doctors care at that time. Severe symphony's basically are the worst side effect listed possible "life threatening" situation.

Write down number that you are encountering and figure out what's your total. That should give you a some what an idea of what to get prepared for and duration of WDs. You can do that each day in the morning and see what level you facing.


Resting Pulse Rate: (record beats per minute)
Measured after patient is sitting or lying for one minute
0 pulse rate 80 or below
1 pulse rate 81-100
2 pulse rate 101-120
4 pulse rate greater than 120

Sweating: over past 1⁄2 hour not accounted for by room temperature or activity.
0 no report of chills or flushing
1 subjective report of chills or flushing
2 flushed or observable moistness on face 3 beads of sweat on brow or face
4 sweat streaming off face

Restlessness Observation during assessment
0 able to sit still
1 reports difficulty sitting still, but is able to do so
3 frequent shifting or extraneous movements of legs/arms 5 Unable to sit still for more than a few seconds

Pupil size
0 pupils pinned or normal size for room light
1 pupils possibly larger than normal for room light
2 pupils moderately dilated
5 pupils so dilated that only the rim of the iris is visible

Bone or Joint aches If person was having pain previously, only the additional component attributed to opiates withdrawal is scored
0 not present
1 mild diffuse discomfort
2 patient reports severe diffuse aching of joints/ muscles 4 patient is rubbing joints or muscles and is unable to sit
still because of discomfort

Runny nose or tearing Not accounted for by cold symptoms or allergies
0 not present
1 nasal stuffiness or unusually moist eyes
2 nose running or tearing
4 nose constantly running or tears streaming down cheeks


Score:
5-12 = mild;
13-24 = moderate;
25-36 = moderately severe;
more than 36 = severe withdrawal

Hope this helps, but you seem that you did already research the situation..
Good luck too you

 

[BIGsherm7272]

I've used bupe only 12 hours after my last shot of hydromorph, which has a shorter half life than H, and was fine. I would recommend waiting at least 16 hours, after that you should be fine. And precipitated withdrawals aren't as bad as people make them out to be, for me it only lasted an hour tops and it was nothing different than regular withdrawals. Hopes this answers your question.

 

[BlueHues]

Some people feel like shit when they transition onto buprenorphine for a few days, it's not precipitated WDs but it's impossible to tell the difference. Precipitated withdrawals generally would happen if you took bupe right on top of another opioid while it was still in full effect, you were high etc.

IMO, any bad feelings you feel after waiting 24 hours aren't precipitated WDs but are just "lag time" before he suboxone starts working, which usually happens to people who have gone back and forth between these two drugs for years...

the fact that you're so scared of this and don't seem to know how to judge the severity of your own WDs indicates to me that you're probably early on in your opiate use, in which case you shouldn't have much problem getting on the suboxone...

For me, if my eyes are big, I'm getting chills, sneezing, anxious as hell and uncomfortable no matter what I do, I know I'm dopesick!

I guess severe symptoms would be constant vomiting and shitting(sometimes at the same time) and severe pain throughout your whole bodied...that on top of all the other symptoms...I've been IVing heroin for many years and I don't generally throw up, maybe once or twice in the first few days....

I would just wait 24 hours and take it, you're overthinking the whole thing....

 

[jjacobsen]

Really helpful comrades thank you! When you say feeling shirty first few days in subs, what do you mean, precisely? How is it different than cold turkey first three days? Better? How much better?
I think you're right I'm overblowing it. Just wanna give myself best chance not to give up because of excruciating pain. I want to give myself best chances of really reducing the wds.
some swear by high doses at first, ESP w me dojng gram a day for most of a year (less this last week: .5), but I'm hearing more often best to start off w 2mg, wait AT LEAST an hour.

How do you keep the sub under tongue if your wds turn to vomiting before you start on subs? Happened to my brother after 24 hours in jail-- couldn't keep them in mouth.

 

[BlueHues]

Well, I'll start off by telling you that when I first went on Suboxone from using heroin I had no problem taking it even 12 hours after using heroin...I'd maybe feel a little weird for an hour or so and then just feel completely normal, not sick at all...

After several years, it became harder to transition to the suboxone where I felt like I was in semi WD for 1-2 days after taking it, it's not nearly as bad as heroin WDs, it's just feeling kind of anxious and sweaty, not able to stay asleep...a little achey and flushed...It comes and goes and then it just fades and I'm fine on the Sub...

But, I don't think this will happen to you....24 hours should be good, and even if you do feel a little crappy it will go away quickly and you'll be fine...I'm really thinking that once you start on the subs after 24 hours you'll feel normal and pretty stable within 1-2 hours of your first dose...Even worse case scenario shouldn't be too bad with you..

I think 2mgs is a good amount to start with...and if you need another 2 mgs take that...If you still feel shitty after that it won't be for lack of suboxone it will be the "transitional" thing I spoke of...which will go away quickly...

I've never needed more than 4mgs a day and I wouldn't go over 8....Have faith, the suboxone works well, you'll be fine

 

[dopemegently]

Luckily I was on short lasting opiates when I took my first sub; I only had to wait 5 hours until I was in peak withdrawals, and it worked out fine.
Judging the right time to dose bupe is more an art than a science, and definitive answers are almost non-existent. I'd say wait until you're in peak withdrawals, to be safe. Ime, if you do it when your feeling at your very worst, and in full-blown WD's you should be fine. Ie don't take bupe if you're starting to feel a bit sick. On smack, I would wait 30 hours until I was at my very worst. It won't be a nice time, and you'll need to be very patient, but you'll be safe in the knowledge that you have meds on hand to make you better; I find that can help a hell of a lot.

 

[sekio]

This has been gone over a million times. The answer is: it's subjective and depends on the individual.