Mental Health Horrible venlafaxine dependence

[plumbus-nine]

I'm absolutely hooked on this drug. The first time I took venlafaxine was in my teens - way too early, and it was for social anxiety, not for depression.. Was off it some times, always developed severe depression which I did not have before venlafaxine. Total years on venlafaxine are maybe 10, with a median dose of 150mg. But now, the last maybe 3 years I was on methadone/morphine maintenance together with venlafaxine and this made it impossible to quit ... I have the morphine gone, but when I stop the venlafaxine, I get the worst of all withdrawal syndromes. Just going to drink some water requires all effort I am able to bring up. Brain zaps from hell. Diarrhea. Runny nose. Nausea. Dysphoria. Stomach ache and rumbles. Restlessness, Mushy brain. Total fatigue. All together ... it doesn't respond to other SSRIs (tried paroxetine, was a recommendation from a doc, just headache.. tried fluoxetine, for 2 weeks now, nothing.. even morphine doesn't take the things away, now that my dependence on that is gone.. but one single 75mg capsule of venlafaxine, and I feel normal again.. just that the side effects, mostly tachycardia - resting BPM of 110! - are back too.. tried bisoprolol without success, it lowers the pressure but not the BPM) 5-htp, St. John's wort, pregabalin .... nothing.

As the IR tablets are out of market, is really the only chance left to VERY VERY slowly taper off? Or try more antidepressants to find some substitute, maybe a tricyclic?

Any idea what could help me? I don't even feel depressed or anxious without the venlafaxine, I just feel horrible withdrawal. Physical withdrawal.

 

[n3ophy7e]

As the IR tablets are out of market, is really the only chance left to VERY VERY slowly taper off?

Short answer: Yes.

Venlafaxine is well known for its bad withdrawals, unfortunately The antidepressant that I am on, duloxetine, is the same. I've been on duloxetine for over 8 years now and have tried to come off it several times because I felt like I didn't need it any more, no symptoms of depression or anxiety. But even after an entire week of suffering with THE WORST WITHDRAWALS I'VE EVER HAD, the brain zaps, vertigo, dizziness, nausea, dirrhoea, literally writhing around in my bed with akasthisia and restless legs (WAY worse than alcohol or opiate withdrawals!!), I always ended up giving in and taking duloxetine again. So, I truly understand your situation.

I have heard of people going in to drug detox clinics purely to detox from antidepressants like venlafaxine. Would this be a possibility for you?? Which country do you live in?

 

[paranoid android]

Effexor is the worst drug i have ever come off. I came off both 6mg's of Clonazepam and 150mg's of Morphine cold turkey and it sucked less then Effexor withdrawal. When i came off it Effexor was only new on the market so nobody knew it caused withdrawals so i didnt even know what i had was effexor withdrawals. I thought i was literally going insane.

Have you tried tapering with Prozac? Prozac has a super long half life so it's easy to taper with. Some doctors use it to wean patients off other anti-depressants it's kind of like the Methadone of SSRI's. Also Diphenhydramine can help the brain zaps and nausea from Effexor withdrawal.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Have you tried tapering with Prozac? Prozac has a super long half life so it's easy to taper with. Some doctors use it to wean patients off other anti-depressants it's kind of like the Methadone of SSRI's. Also Diphenhydramine can help the brain zaps and nausea from Effexor withdrawal.

Very good call pa!

 

[plumbus-nine]

I've already tried prozac (fluoxetine) without success, took 40mg/d for one week and nothing. Maybe I need to gradually titrate the venla down and fluoxetine up, don't know at which rate ... today I took 75mg venlafaxine on top of 20mg fluoxetine + 100mg 5-htp, should probably have given me serotonin syndrome but just felt like being alive again... just that I already know that I won't be able to sleep tonight ...

Anything known about whether psychedelics can help restoring serotonin after SSRI? I won't go through this withdrawal for months, this is for sure, and the venlafaxine really messes with my body (tachycardia and high blood pressure, possibly also slowed metabolism for which I was blaming the morphine but seemingly I heavily under-estimated what venlafaxine is able to do) and sleep ... the only thing which was better during the past days were these values, pulse like 70-75 instead of 110(!) when resting. Should be able to get shrooms or DMT, unfortunately no LSD, while 1cP-LSD was the only psychedelic which worked even whilst on venlafaxine (besides DMT, possibly, I didn't yet touch this one). Note that all the visuals from all drugs almost completely disappeared when I started venlafaxine. Only some minor black/white stuff remains, and 1cP-LSD which was the full deal, but next to no effects from shrooms or tryptamines .. guess heavily downregulated serotonin receptors ..

 

[✿Dai₷y✿]

I won't ever be getting off effexor.

There's no getting out of withdrawals unless you are switched to pristiq, not sure if that is a direct swap but those tablets you can taper.

Just stay on it, getting off too hard.

 

[n3ophy7e]

Note that all the visuals from all drugs almost completely disappeared when I started venlafaxine. Only some minor black/white stuff remains, and 1cP-LSD which was the full deal, but next to no effects from shrooms or tryptamines .. guess heavily downregulated serotonin receptors ..

This is completely expected while on any antidepressant medication that effects serotonin. I have the same effect, and as stated above I'm on duloxetine which is an SNRI as well. It sucks because psychedelics are one of my favourite things in the whole Universe and I am a seasoned psychonaut However my mental health is more important than being able to trip balls, so...

 

[n3ophy7e]

There's no getting out of withdrawals unless you are switched to pristiq, not sure if that is a direct swap but those tablets you can taper.

That's a good suggestion. @plumbus-nine have you tried that? Pristiq is desvenlafaxine, so obviously very similar, but it comes in tablets which you can break so you can taper down more easily.

 

[JessFR]

Short answer: Yes.

Venlafaxine is well known for its bad withdrawals, unfortunately The antidepressant that I am on, duloxetine, is the same. I've been on duloxetine for over 8 years now and have tried to come off it several times because I felt like I didn't need it any more, no symptoms of depression or anxiety. But even after an entire week of suffering with THE WORST WITHDRAWALS I'VE EVER HAD, the brain zaps, vertigo, dizziness, nausea, dirrhoea, literally writhing around in my bed with akasthisia and restless legs (WAY worse than alcohol or opiate withdrawals!!), I always ended up giving in and taking duloxetine again. So, I truly understand your situation.

I have heard of people going in to drug detox clinics purely to detox from antidepressants like venlafaxine. Would this be a possibility for you?? Which country do you live in?

I was actually on duloxetine for several years. It's kinda weird how I got off it. I kinda just took it more and more inconsistently as I was increasingly messed up on heroin and everything else in my life was of secondary importance.

One day I just realized.. I hadn't taken it in months.

Totally painless.

Not that I'm endorsing the heroin option here, lol, just that I was really surprised I somehow got off it without meaning too.

I had experienced withdrawal from it in the past, so I was at least somewhat dependant on it at some point.

 

[plumbus-nine]

I was actually on duloxetine for several years. It's kinda weird how I got off it. I kinda just took it more and more inconsistently as I was increasingly messed up on heroin and everything else in my life was of secondary importance.

One day I just realized.. I hadn't taken it in months.

Totally painless.

This' interesting as indeed can morphine mask the brain zaps and the remaining symptoms have a weird similarity to opioid w/d - but probably you need to do recreational doses, yesterday I took like 30mg of morphine and it did literally noting but sedate me a bit. I didn't even get a rebound of opioid withdrawal, thankfully, so I'll stay clear off opioids for now.
But kinda reminds me of how some people withdrew from morphine by bingeing on coke ...
Pregabalin too works to some extent, probably better so than opioids, but it was too weak for me here and now.

Maybe I'll get pristiq, thanks for mentioning that, with tablets at least you can crush them and get the receptors recovering in night. Insomnia is the worst side effect of venlafaxine for me btw, but it only emerged in the last maybe 2 years, before I felt fine for many years with it.. (yet realizing that maybe it actually worsened depression/anxiety features instead of helping)

Duloxetine was a failure for me btw, as was sertraline. The latter made me psychotic and I didn't have history of psychosis.

Edit: Fluoxetine + dextromethorphan, both taken in low dosages (titrate!! people with less pronounced 5-HT tolerance might be at danger of serotonin syndrome) could provide a solution. This leads both to a potentiation of SSRI properties as well as a shift in DXM : metabolite DXO towards DXM which makes a much better antidepressant (it's in phase II or III, in combo with bupropion, which gives you an unnecessary norepinephrinergic strain). DXM is potent, in this combo hopefully potent enough to substitute for venlafaxine, but should produce significantly less withdrawal than venlafaxine, in past I was able to use it to get off serotonergic agents.. and you can taper it correctly..

It's just incredible how venlafaxine is much more physically addicting than morphine. The only point why S/NRIs aren't labelled as addictive is that they cause adverse effects in acute overdose. A week off, a week of suffering, and tolerance didn't lower by a single bit. Still need 102,5mg to avoid brain zaps. Somehow I think venlafaxine is just fucking potent in certain individuals like me, achieving like 100% SERT inhibition with just 100mg.. or it's a masked releaser / TAAR1 agonist .. happens also to be the only AD which works almost instantly without week-long waiting period, which I always found strange,. and don't forget it's a close relative of tramadol, also mu opioid receptors were found to be required for it to work, which isn't the case with most other ADs (notable exception being mirtazapine).