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Horrible comedown on large dose of mdma

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dodollo

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
6
Hey guys!

My first time writing here! %)

So, this weekend I rolled pretty hard on mdma-crystals, I _THINK_ i devoured about 0.5g of really really good mdma-crystals, but thats just the thing, I have no idea. I was sharing a pretty big bag, 1,5g with two friends of mine, and we went through it all over 5 or 6 hours. So, heres the problem! My comedown is the worst ever.

Ever since saturday, I've been feeling like shit. I have massive gaps in memory from that night, I mostly remember fragments of it. I think I loaded up about 4-5 times during 6 hours, but as I said, not a lot of memories. Thats the nr.1 thing that concerns me, but the second one is this comedown.

Ive been having zero energy over the past few days. I mean, I find it difficult to have a conversation with people. I look like shit, pale and bags under my eyes. Im tired all of the day, and I sleep really really deep. I have what I only can describe as brain-zaps during the day, and a massive headache that just wont give away. I think I can relate the headache to my jaw-clinching this weekend, as it dissapeared when I got a massage this afternoon, but I'm really not sure. 8( This is only the second time I'm using MDMA(no E use either), and I dont take other drugs or medications, and I am at good health.

The entire night was a big pile of stress really. We didnt have time for dinner, and drank 3 red bull vodkas before hitting in on the bag. Then danced for 5-6 hours, and went to bed without eating. So the next time I ate it was 24 hours since my last meal. We only had 6 hours of sleep that night aswell. I know this is stupid, but that how it went down! :D

After adding everything up, the memory gaps, headache, tiredness, it really feels like something is wrong in my body, as I sleep good and eat good, but still this wont give in, and its been 4 days now. Im thinking of seeing a doctor, but I thought this would go away as I've waited a few days.

Do you guys have any ideas? Im eating vitamin supplements and trying to keep a good diet this week.

Appreciate all your answers, as I'm pretty much just trying to wait this thing out!
 
You've just done too much of a drug and are feeling messed up from it. Nothing to worry about really, especially since it's only your second time taking mdma. If you were a heavy user then these symptoms would last a lot longer. But it's only been 4 days so just wait it out, you should be feeling better soon.

When I was messed up from mdma I found piracetam helped a lot.
 
Dude, what you thinks gonna happen from taking such an amount?

Specially for a begginer, why would you need so much? Either ur brain is very tolerant to mdma or its not as strong as u think it is... anyways next time take less. I get off with 80mg after years of indulging...

Health is where it's at: exercise, sleep, 5htp, piracetam, ALA (read the supplements mega thread) and eat well. And most importantly, wait a while before u roll again (at least a month).

Ciao
 
Hey guys, thanks for your answers!

I know I took a shitload too much. I got perfect the last I went with around 150mg, so I knew how much I should take. Its such a shame I wasted so much of the good stuff on an evening that wasnt all that good...I feel the most crap about that! :) I guess next time, I wont bring as much, as it seems you get overexcited hehe...Again, thank you for your answers! I will try and wait it out, and hope this headache gives in soon! Atleast I will wait until the summer until I roll again.. :(

No piracetam available(legal) in my country, so I will have to make due with vitamins...Thanks again guys!
 
you have no choice but to wait it out. sleep, diet, vitamins, maybe exercise, and time. take less in future
 
This is the problem with MDMA powder. People tend to treat it differently to pills. Give them a bag of 10 pills and they don't do them all. Given them a g of pure MDMA and they might do it all. It's easier to lose track of what you've done and how long ago. People dip and lick and then repeat that many times until they're totally messed up or run out or both.

Sleep is your friend and it's worth checking out 5htp for the zaps. Other than that, all you can do is wait it out.
 
Andronicus said:
This is the problem with MDMA powder. People tend to treat it differently to pills. Give them a bag of 10 pills and they don't do them all. Given them a g of pure MDMA and they might do it all. It's easier to lose track of what you've done and how long ago. People dip and lick and then repeat that many times until they're totally messed up or run out or both.

Sleep is your friend and it's worth checking out 5htp for the zaps. Other than that, all you can do is wait it out.
Click to expand...

This is why i weigh out what i need, Put it in a capsule and thats it no messing around. no foul taste. no funny faces.
no ulcers of the mouth. Its all Win...

To OP, Maybe you should look in my blogs and eat some of the foods in the list on it, its in my "guide to rolling balls"
It might help you out, your lacking in serotonin so i think your mood/appetite/sleep patterns/ temperature control will be all over the place atm.
 
Hey dudes, its all good today :) Feeling like a champ...Thanks for your replies...I usually dont freak out, but this was different...God damn, those was the worst four days of my life..Well, if anything, it was a good lesson...Altough I think it ruined the magic of mdma, since i dont crave it no more :( party on!
 
dodollo said:
Hey dudes, its all good today :) Feeling like a champ...Thanks for your replies...I usually dont freak out, but this was different...God damn, those was the worst four days of my life..Well, if anything, it was a good lesson...Altough I think it ruined the magic of mdma, since i dont crave it no more :( party on!
Click to expand...
~

Wait 3 - 6 months sport, you will enjoy it again by then
Remember Moderation is the key
 
Definitely try and take a long break from MDMA. You'll thank yourself for the break, when the MDMA hits you. :)

And make sure to get as much exercise as possible. I can't emphasize how important it is to stay active after a harsh MDMA session. It's the best natural way to get high. :)
 
Just wanted to let you know that I'm doing much better now. Pretty much all the symptoms have cleared up. Actually, the funny thing is that I went to the gym and worked out for the first time in a couple of months this weekend, and thats when the hangover-feeling just really let go. I think some parts of what I was feeling might just have been stress.

Anyways, if anyone feeling the same stumbles into this thread, what got me through it was really just...time...time and vitamins I guess. :)

Thanks for your answers dudes...cheers!
 
Just to expand on these answers and provide some advice for your future rolls:

A common pre-load [for MDMA] consists of 200mg of 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP), up to 100mg of Vitamin B-6, up to 1000mg of Vitamin C, and 100mg of Magnesium.
Click to expand...

from http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1788

All of those are available at your local pharmacy. The vitamin C and 5-HTP are good for helping your roll (and the B-6 helps the 5-HTP). The magnesium will help with bruxism (jaw clench). Vitamin C and 5-HTP will also help with preventing possible brain damage. There are some worries about taking 5-HTP before your roll as some people report a dampened effect from the MDMA. I've heard some reports that taking it two to five hours before you drop is a safe bet. Definitely don't take it during, though. It's also recommended to take a dose of 5-HTP each day after your roll for a few days (I cannot urge you enough to take it with food, otherwise you will have the worst stomach pain) to help with the depression (due to low serotonin levels). Obviously, some exercise never hurts as well. And be sure to drink an adequate amount of water.

While I'm on the topic, never mix DXM and MDMA (or any other psychedelic). My friend did so recently and she tripped for about 48 hours. It was an awful experience for her.

Good luck, man!
 
Thanks for the extensive reply...Really good info for the next time.

One question though, I just got a hold of some 5-htp. Is it "2 late" to start eating them now, or will it still do some good in regards to my brain and serotonin recovery? I'm feeling almost back to normal already, but anything that helps my body and mind seems like a good idea. Cheers!
 
Preloading with 5-HTP could be risky in terms of serotonin syndrome. I'm not sure about the supposed protective mechanism for preloading with it. I'd be interested to know. On the face of it, I'd have guessed it might make it worse by overstimulating serotonin even more than just E alone.

For recovery, 5htp is reputed to assist with brain zaps. I certainly believe it to . Might help with depression too.

Piracetam seems to help lift the foggy feeling a bit and Stablon seems to help quite a bit with avoiding the depression.

Lots of vitamins, fruit smoothies, veg and green tea etc are generally a good idea before and after for their antioxidant and other effects.
 
One of the supposed mechanisms of MDMA toxicity could be the exhaustion of available serotonin supply.
Once the availability of serotonin drops, anti-oxidants are the only remaining protection.
Once these are exhausted, the continued presence of MDMA (and/or its metabolites) begins to form peroxide - from the lipids in the cell membranes and the damaged mitochondria spilling out from them!

Research suggests that the axons are not necessarily destroyed either, but the SERT transporter is damaged independently.
Without proper transporter expression, the nearby receptors and target neurons stop functioning properly.

This is one of the leading theories...
So making sure you have a sufficient supply of serotonin to begin with MAY offer protection from the toxic cascade, to a degree.

The best way to do this is to SPACE rolls, by at least 90 days.
This is because MDMA directly inactivates the enzyme used to synthesize more serotonin - TPH or tryptophan hydrolase.
This deactivation is called 'permanent', because NEW enzyme must be created - the old TPH is permanently dead.
Renewal of TPH takes between 1-3 months.

Only after TPH is back to full capacity does serotonin begin to approach previous levels.
If TPH levels are only partially recovered, due to inadequate spacing, there is only ONE way to increase serotonin more quickly.
That is by consuming tryptophan or hydroxy-tryptophan.
Eating serotonin directly will not increase serotonin levels - only tryptophan crosses the BBB.

The conversion to serotonin is still limited by the level of TPH, but increasing tryptophan levels does have an impact as long as TPH is not drastically inadequate.

HOWEVER - andronicus is right...
The risk of Serotonin Syndrome, or Serotonin Toxicity, is VERY real.

SS only occurs when two serotonergic substances are interacting with each other.
The combination of ANY two substances are risky....but MDMA is unique in its ability to release LARGE amounts of serotonin VERY quickly.
For this reason, Serotonin Syndrome associated with MDMA use tends to be MUCH more serious than SS seen with anti-depressants/MAOIs.

Note - many of the symptoms of Serotonin Syndrome actually OVERLAP with NORMAL use of MDMA.
The increase in body temperature, blood-pressure, heart-rate, digestion, anxiety, anti-diuretic hormone, etc. occur in BOTH acute cases AND in typical MDMA users. Hmm...

This suggests that MDMA is already causing a type of serotonin toxicity on its own...
This is backed up by the understanding that high levels of serotonin damage the SERT transporter - leading to increased cortisol.
This helps to break down excess serotonin more quickly - it is one of the body's defense mechanisms.
So the normal cortisol response seen with MDMA is an indication of some level of toxicity.

I DO have a suggestion - preloading with 5-HTP or tryptophan can be done well BEFORE the MDMA dosing.
I STRONGLY suggest spacing the tryptophan and MDMA by AT LEAST 3 days.
There is NO reason that it needs to be taken the SAME day.

This is because the extra serotonin production that occurs from tryptophan supplementation is not lost over a few days!
It is stored away, waiting to be released.
The rule of thumb for MOST serotonergic drugs is 2 WEEKS, but I am trying to be realistic here.
There are plenty of users that swear by it, so they are going to continue taking it.

But spacing by at least 3 days is critical, because this allows the intestines time to PROCESS the extra tryptophan.
One of the reasons why Serotonin Syndrome occurs is because BOTH substances are being continually absorbed by the intestinal wall.
Taking 5-HTP just prior to a roll is STUPID, because it offers little benefit but a MUCH higher risk.

So stop your tryptophan supplementation at LEAST 72 hours before rolling, preferably longer.
I can personally say that the effects of tryptophan supplementation during RECOVERY takes DAYS to build up.
Only after taking it for a week do I feel the effects stabilize.
When I stop taking it, it is another WEEK before I feel the loss of serotonin.
This stuff sticks around guys.

Another piece of advice - eat very healthy prior to rolling.
Not just the day of, or the day before.
While you are supplementing 5-HTP during the previous week, make sure you are eating LOTS of proteins and whole grains/veggies.
By loading up on healthy foods, you will improve your metabolism and raise serotonin levels more efficiently.
And the intestines will more quickly rid themselves of the excess tryptophan PRIOR to rolling.

For post-loading, I highly recommend that you focus on anti-oxidants and Piracetam as your primary supplements.
MDMA is normally out of your system within 1-3 days, but its metabolites (which may prolong toxicity) take 3-7 days to be eliminated.
Continue eating VERY healthy and drinking LOTS of fluids.
Exercise and anti-oxidants will help your body eliminate the metabolites much more quickly.
Piracetam improves membrane permeability in the brain, which may improve the function of SERT.
Alcohol will inhibit SERT function, possibly increasing the risk of Serotonin Syndrome.

Taking more tryptophan will TOO.
I STRONGLY recommend against taking it for at LEAST the first 2 days post-roll.
The risk of Serotonin Syndrome does not go away just because the roll is over.
I would know - 48 hours after my last exposure to MDMA I took 100mg benedryl, which also inhibits serotonin.
The next day, just after waking....definite Serotonin Syndrome.
Almost a year later, I am still dealing with the consequences. :\

It is possible that MDMA is toxic to neurons through other mechanisms as well.
Perhaps a sudden drop in serotonin levels DOES contribute to the process...
With acute cases, a serotonin antagonist is sometimes used to stop the toxic cascade.
This suggests that the receptors need to be blocked to prevent the toxic cascade - and it works in research, meaning it blocks all toxicity if administered PRIOR to MDMA.

If supplementing with tryptophan somehow offers protection POST-roll it may do so in a VERY delicate manner.
The difference between protection and further damage at these receptor sites/transporters may be a FINE line.
So - if you are going to post-load without a 2 day gap (which I still recommend) - I STRONGLY suggest taking LESS than a whole dose.
That means empty more than HALF of your 5-htp capsule out prior to taking it.
You can ALWAYS TAKE MORE LATER.

Get it?

Besides, there are PLENTY of foods rich in tryptophan, dammit!
Just EAT healthy and your body will do the rest.

For LONG-term recovery from MDMA toxicity...
I found trptophan to be VERY unpleasant in the first month.
It increased anxiety in a BIG way, so I stopped it very quickly.
This tells me that raising serotonin levels is not necessarily what the brain wants, when serious injury occurs.

The constant release of cortisol that happens during serious recovery seems to back this up - remember that cortisol is the brain's way of breaking down serotonin more quickly, possibly to prevent further transporter damage.

But around month 7 I tried it again and was SHOCKED at its effects.
It actually CALMED me down for a LONG period of time.
It didn't prevent all the head-pressure or 'zaps', but it made me highly tolerant of them.
I literally went from feeling like I was going to DIE of a stroke to thinking 'eh, so what'.

And the sleep it gave me was NICE.
Very restful indeed.

Then I made the mistake of taking some tramadol after a few days.
Mild serotonin syndrome that night - oops.
I learned my lesson - NO MORE OVERLAPPING.

Now, I use tryptophan occassionally, and it still is very relaxing.
But I must say that there is a withdrawal from it that is not very pleasant.
I do NOT believe that it CURES the damage either.
The zaps and head-pressure are RIGHT back when I go off of the tryptophan.
Thankfully they appear to be on their way OUT, perhaps permanently.

I firmly believe that the re-wiring process of the brain involves the constant LOSS of serotonin.
SERT transporter density is the culprit - without enough transporters serotonin is lost instead of recycled.
Perhaps it is the prolonged period of serotonin deficiency that causes NEW transporters to be expressed.
 
Hey guys, just for the archives sake I wanted to thank you all for your replies, and just say that after the 4 months its been since I rolled, all of the effects I feelt are now gone. I'm feeling great, sleeping good, and have a general wellbeing...So for future reference, if youre having a bad comedown, DONT stress yourself up about lasting symptoms, just take it easy and WAIT IT OUT! A good "Life-rhytm" will help. Excercise, good diet and plenty of sleep helped me.

Im thinking about rolling again for the first time in 4 months soon, do you think I will have a bad comedown as a result of my prior overdosing? Im gonna roll with 120-150mg MDMA, and not keep anymore on me at the night of the party. :) Have a good one!
 
seeing as you had such a bad comedown, perhaps you'd be better off waiting till around 6 months?

What country do you live in also?
 
levictus said:
Definitely try and take a long break from MDMA. You'll thank yourself for the break, when the MDMA hits you. :)

And make sure to get as much exercise as possible. I can't emphasize how important it is to stay active after a harsh MDMA session. It's the best natural way to get high. :)
Click to expand...

When I'm coming up after a nice long break, i always pat myself on the back a little bit and thank myself haha
 
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