Tapering Horrendous pregabalin and baclofen addiction self treated at home while no one suspected anything and not a day of work missed

[soulwentmia]

In september, after two months of abuse, I needed at least 1.8 grams of pregabalin and 300mg of bcofen just to feel remotely normal. Wanted to taper but always failed and fell back.

After a couple of intense shroom trips I decided I have to rid myself of this demon. I couldn't do it the recommended way and also I couldn't cold turkey.

I started to treat deppresion with st. Johns wort, l-tyrosine and 5-htp. This uplifted me and let me continue.

I used clonidine, propranolol, phenibut, gabapentin, kratom and quatiapine daily for sleep. (When shit was bad I took antipsychotic doses of quatiapine as in 300mg+) I also used memantine which I feel was crucial to allow me to cut my dosages like a degenerate.


I only had 150mg capsules and didn't split them at first. I dropped a capsule at a time at a few days interval and also 12mg of baclofen every few days. It wasn't a walk in the park but it was 1000x better than it could have been.


As of today, I'm 8 days clean of any GABA B agonist and I'm taking 35mg of lyrica a day + @2400 mg gabapentin which I'm also tapering. I take 20mg memantine every few days when I feel glutamate spiking and I also take kratom daily. Yes, it's a new addiction but much easier to handle than lyrica and baclofen.

I should soon receive a 20mg buprenorphine patch which I will use to stop my kratom intake.

The hardest part comes now, living unmedicated and sober.

 

[cdin]

Big Grats. Makes me want to get some memantine for my own purposes…

 

[negrogesic]

Just to be clear, you were taking 300mg of baclofen a day? Makes me dizzy just thinking about it.

Becareful with that gabapentin, 2400mg isn't a low dose. And the insomnia induced by gabapentin withdrawa is brutal. I was on large daily doses of pregabalin, switched to gabapentin, tapered off and quit. I was fine during the day, but had near absolute insomnia for two months. No real anxiety, I simply couldn't fall or stay asleep. It was a unique type of torture. I eventually I broke down and got some phenibut. Been on it ever since. Its been six years since I "quit" gabapentin. But the reality is I never really did quit it.

I very much regret not getting seroquel or something to knock me out rather than starting up with the phenibut.

 

[soulwentmia]

Just to be clear, you were taking 300mg of baclofen a day? Makes me dizzy just thinking about it.

Becareful with that gabapentin, 2400mg isn't a low dose. And the insomnia induced by gabapentin withdrawa is brutal. I was on large daily doses of pregabalin, switched to gabapentin, tapered off and quit. I was fine during the day, but had near absolute insomnia for two months. No real anxiety, I simply couldn't fall or stay asleep. It was a unique type of torture. I eventually I broke down and got some phenibut. Been on it ever since. Its been six years since I "quit" gabapentin. But the reality is I never really did quit it.

I very much regret not getting seroquel or something to knock me out rather than starting up with the phenibut.

Yes, 300mg of baclofen daily minimum. I used to take 6 pills of 25mg twice a day. Crazy shit. I'm glad I managed to use the phenibut as a crutch and actually end up putting it away for good. As for the gabapentin yes I know I have to be careful. I never experienced withdrawals from it tho at least nothing comparable to pregabalin or phenibut. I can say I have quite the kratom problem but a buprenorphine patch is on its way to me. I'm lucky enough to have a substantial stash of quatiapine of various strenghts.

Can you be stable on phenibut? It produces hellish rebounds for me. Also got hard and expensive to get in the EU.

 

[negrogesic]

Can you be stable on phenibut? It produces hellish rebounds for me. Also got hard and expensive to get in the EU.

Not sure if I'm "stable" or not but I've been taking 4 grams of phenibut hcl every single night for the past 6 years (at least until recently, when i dropped to 2g a night with the help of baclofen).

I've never liked phenibut or gabapentin, the only one in this class that I ever liked was pregabalin. But being on pregabalin on a daily basis put me in nihilistic haze so I got off. Of course, I never really did get off (thus the phenibut).

I have been too lazy to get off of the phenibut but I need to start back up on my taper. I was actually able to drop from 4g to 2g very quickly with the help of baclofen. I'm thinking of just dropping from 2g to 1g in a single drop and upping the baclofen, wait a bit, drop from 1g to 500mg, then just quit (while still remaining on baclofen, then tapering that).

Part of my complacency about quiting this shit stems from the fact that I've previously been addicted to obscene amounts of opioids and benzos and managed to free myself of the associated dependency, so I've sort of viewed this phenibut dependency as "not a big deal". Unlike opioids and benzos, I have no psychological dependency to phenibut, I don't even notice the effect. It is a purely physical dependency. But this complacency has resulted in me being stuck on phenibut for 6 years (in fact I think it might be 7 years), chugging down 4g of this highly acidic esophagus dissolving substance every single night.

I need to be a little more proactive in getting off. I might even be able to just stop taking the 2g I am on now and increase the baclofen (although this is not something I'd recommend anyone try, GABAergic drugs should always be tapered if possible).

I do agree gabapentin withdrawal is not as bad as phenibut or pregabalin withdrawal, but again, the insomnia is brutal. And as a class, the withdrawal from phenibut/gabapentin/pregabalin isn't a fraction as bad as benzo withdrawal, but then again that isn't saying much since benzo withdrawal may be one of the most uncomfortable things a human can possibly experience.

 

[soulwentmia]

Not sure if I'm "stable" or not but I've been taking 4 grams of phenibut hcl every single night for the past 6 years (at least until recently, when i dropped to 2g a night with the help of baclofen).

I've never liked phenibut or gabapentin, the only one in this class that I ever liked was pregabalin. But being on pregabalin on a daily basis put me in nihilistic haze so I got off. Of course, I never really did get off (thus the phenibut).

I have been too lazy to get off of the phenibut but I need to start back up on my taper. I was actually able to drop from 4g to 2g very quickly with the help of baclofen. I'm thinking of just dropping from 2g to 1g in a single drop and upping the baclofen, wait a bit, drop from 1g to 500mg, then just quit (while still remaining on baclofen, then tapering that).

Part of my complacency about quiting this shit stems from the fact that I've previously been addicted to obscene amounts of opioids and benzos and managed to free myself of the associated dependency, so I've sort of viewed this phenibut dependency as "not a big deal". Unlike opioids and benzos, I have no psychological dependency to phenibut, I don't even notice the effect. It is a purely physical dependency. But this complacency has resulted in me being stuck on phenibut for 6 years (in fact I think it might be 7 years), chugging down 4g of this highly acidic esophagus dissolving substance every single night.

I need to be a little more proactive in getting off. I might even be able to just stop taking the 2g I am on now and increase the baclofen (although this is not something I'd recommend anyone try, GABAergic drugs should always be tapered if possible).

I do agree gabapentin withdrawal is not as bad as phenibut or pregabalin withdrawal, but again, the insomnia is brutal. And as a class, the withdrawal from phenibut/gabapentin/pregabalin isn't a fraction as bad as benzo withdrawal, but then again that isn't saying much since benzo withdrawal may be one of the most uncomfortable things a human can possibly experience.

Ouufff I feel you man. I withdrew from benzos many times, sometimes CT sometimes tapered but always as I was also using phenibut so add a rebound over the withdrawal and that was me. And i decided to have my first psychedelic trips like this. Imagine that.

As for your addiction it is mostly complacency at this point yes. If i were you and you have unlimited baclofen access I would substitute completely with 75-100mg and taper for there in a month or two (because of the long time frame).

BUT

Baclofen does not address VGCC inhibition so it might not be enough and probably you'll need gabapentin too. It's stronger than phenibut so @2000mg should have you sorted. Power to you bro i hope u sort this out.

 

[papercuts]

Ouufff I feel you man. I withdrew from benzos many times, sometimes CT sometimes tapered but always as I was also using phenibut so add a rebound over the withdrawal and that was me. And i decided to have my first psychedelic trips like this. Imagine that.

As for your addiction it is mostly complacency at this point yes. If i were you and you have unlimited baclofen access I would substitute completely with 75-100mg and taper for there in a month or two (because of the long time frame).

BUT

Baclofen does not address VGCC inhibition so it might not be enough and probably you'll need gabapentin too. It's stronger than phenibut so @2000mg should have you sorted. Power to you bro i hope u sort this out.

Don't forget to taper the kratom, it's got an intense physical withdrawal that is less of a mindfuck but otherwise like an opiate. I got very sick CT and it took me a while to work out what I'd done wrong.

 

[soulwentmia]

Don't forget to taper the kratom, it's got an intense physical withdrawal that is less of a mindfuck but otherwise like an opiate. I got very sick CT and it took me a while to work out what I'd done wrong.

I'll reduce my intake and slap a buprenorphine patch on me but the onions are slow as shit lately and I'm still waiting for it.

 

[papercuts]

I'll reduce my intake and slap a buprenorphine patch on me but the onions are slow as shit lately and I'm still waiting for it.

I should have said CT except for a 10mg buprenorphine patch, 20mg will help you, I'm four weeks without that too now, but taking nefopam, gabapentin and pod tea, lol.
I endlessly go in circles with this thing, trying to retain something like a tolerance.

 

[soulwentmia]

I should have said CT except for a 10mg buprenorphine patch, 20mg will help you, I'm four weeks without that too now, but taking nefopam, gabapentin and pod tea, lol.
I endlessly go in circles with this thing, trying to retain something like a tolerance.

Myeah that's where I'm at, quittin this, starting that, etc. I can't NOT take something despite the fact that an insane amount of pregabalin, baclofen, phenibut, bupropion and diazepam sent me in a GCS 3 coma :/ in march

 

[SummerWinter]

I’ve been on prescription baclofen for years. Is it addictive?

 

[papercuts]

I’ve been on prescription baclofen for years. Is it addictive?

Not physically except you can get more muscle spasms after you stop it.
In places where medical weed is allowed specialists can replace baclofen when the max dose won't work any more, giving you weed instead, the most expensive weed you'll ever encounter at that, lol.

 

[SummerWinter]

Not physically except you can get more muscle spasms after you stop it.
In places where medical weed is allowed specialists can replace baclofen when the max dose won't work any more, giving you weed instead, the most expensive weed you'll ever encounter at that, lol.

I have a medical marijuana license. But I don’t like the feeling of being stoned and it’s really difficult to to find CBD only or CBD:THC 1:1 formulations. I wish it worked for me. When I talk to the folks who work there, they push the high THC stuff because I’m on so much pain control medication. When I tell them I don’t like that feeling, they do try to work with me but medical marijuana works best with larger levels of THC I guess.

 

[soulwentmia]

Not physically except you can get more muscle spasms after you stop it.
In places where medical weed is allowed specialists can replace baclofen when the max dose won't work any more, giving you weed instead, the most expensive weed you'll ever encounter at that, lol.

This is dangerously wrong. It might not be psychologically adictive as much as more addictive shit and it is super easy to taper provided u have enough pills but BAC withdrawal produces: horrible anxiety and many other psych symptoms, pain, sweating, insomnia, hallucinations, tremors and even rhabdomyolisis and coma. If you're not really truly familiar with a substance stop posting "facts" about it on a harm reduction forum many people end up on when googling substances. Hope no one managed to read your comment and withdraw cold turkey. The problems also start after about 4 days so it's easy to think nothing happens until you ruin your life and end up in a psych ward or dead.

 

[papercuts]

This is dangerously wrong. It might not be psychologically adictive as much as more addictive shit and it is super easy to taper provided u have enough pills but BAC withdrawal produces: horrible anxiety and many other psych symptoms, pain, sweating, insomnia, hallucinations, tremors and even rhabdomyolisis and coma. If you're not really truly familiar with a substance stop posting "facts" about it on a harm reduction forum many people end up on when googling substances. Hope no one managed to read your comment and withdraw cold turkey. The problems also start after about 4 days so it's easy to think nothing happens until you ruin your life and end up in a psych ward or dead.

I'm sorry you don't like my comment. I'm talking as a patient, not as a doctor and that is what the patient leaflet says, not addictive.

Harmful if stopped suddenly from a high dose? I'd think it's highly likely, it's a real drug with real effects, I never said don't taper it, I didn't say stop taking it.

I meant the urge to keep using, I think the other person was also referring to the compulsion and wasn't planning on undergoing withdrawal, just asking as they been on it years, like me.

There is no urge to keep using it except if I start getting muscle spasms I get out the baclofen and I know that people diagnosed with the same genetic condition as me have switched from baclofen to medical cannabis for our common illness and I could legally, but I don't have the funds.

My understanding of addiction is skewed I guess by my addiction to opiates. Usually addiction is a mental health condition, like the one where I don't stop drinking until after I pass out. I know it is potentially dangerous to stop alcohol suddenly but if anyone asks about the addictive properties of alcohol I think of the mental urge not to stop, I don't think of the DTs.

Both count as addiction, so my bad, baclofen's not mentally addictive AFAIK because it doesn't do much in the head, but I would never recommend jumping CT from a high amount of any drug. This one in particular would cause a rebound in muscle spasms which could be dangerous.

 

[soulwentmia]

I'm sorry you don't like my comment. I'm talking as a patient, not as a doctor and that is what the patient leaflet says, not addictive.

Harmful if stopped suddenly from a high dose? I'd think it's highly likely, it's a real drug with real effects, I never said don't taper it, I didn't say stop taking it.

I meant the urge to keep using, I think the other person was also referring to the compulsion and wasn't planning on undergoing withdrawal, just asking as they been on it years, like me.

There is no urge to keep using it except if I start getting muscle spasms I get out the baclofen and I know that people diagnosed with the same genetic condition as me have switched from baclofen to medical cannabis for our common illness and I could legally, but I don't have the funds.

My understanding of addiction is skewed I guess by my addiction to opiates. Usually addiction is a mental health condition, like the one where I don't stop drinking until after I pass out. I know it is potentially dangerous to stop alcohol suddenly but if anyone asks about the addictive properties of alcohol I think of the mental urge not to stop, I don't think of the DTs.

Both count as addiction, so my bad, baclofen's not mentally addictive AFAIK because it doesn't do much in the head, but I would never recommend jumping CT from a high amount of any drug. This one in particular would cause a rebound in muscle spasms which could be dangerous.

Rebound spasticity is the least of your concerns. Withdrawal from intracathetal (spelling is off) baclofen is the most life threatening but oral administartion is dangerous as well even from small doses.

Acute Intrathecal Baclofen Withdrawal: A Brief Review of Treatment Options - Neurocritical Care

Background Acute baclofen toxicity and withdrawal can present with a constellation of symptoms making differentiation between these two entities and other potential diagnoses challenging. Baclofen withdrawal is associated with numerous complications which may require neurocritical care expertise...

link.springer.com

Complications of Baclofen Withdrawal

• In three patients taking baclofen on a long-term basis, hallucinosis and/or seizures developed with abrupt reduction of dose or discontinuation of baclofen therapy. These cases emphasize the advisability of tapering the dose of baclofen gradually after long-term administration.

jamanetwork.com

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033318205700347

Here is just a glance of what can happen during withdrawal.

As for psychological addiction, I agree that small medicinal doses will not make you an addict. Baclofen, however, in recreational terms, only shines at doses of 100+mg (single dose). But you have to take it in increasingly high doses because if you take so much without tolerance you will be very sick at best or in a brain death mimmicking coma at worst. Once you can stand 100mg+ doses, it gives a manic energetic high, phenibut-like in terms of increased sociability, creativity, insane sex drive, insane music appreciation and more. It's a tricky thing because there's a thin line between feeling nothing and going into a coma. It also takes 4 hours to work so if you don't know this you might redose and get into big trouble. For reference, in the beggining i was already addicted to high doses of phenibut, also a GABA B agonist, and 50 mg would make me alchool-like wobbly and uncomfortable.

Now, my recreational dose is 6 25mg pills at once and i feel stimmed, sociable and nice overall. Withdrawal is definitely life threatening but the good news is that it's one of the easiest drugs to taper as long as you have enough. You can cut 10 or 12.5 mg every 2-3 or 4 days with minimal discomfort as opposed to pregabalin which is a much trickier devil.

 

[ammaretto]

Ive been taking 30mg a day for about one yr, this is low compared to OP but should i be worried. i dont plan on stopping anytime due to compresion fractures in spine.

 

[papercuts]

30mg a day is the dose of baclofen I was given by the pain clinic, I'm a small female btw, so I don't think that dose would be a problem in anyone unless they'd liver failure or something like that?
Now will Soulwentmia jump in and say I'm wrong and evil?
Or has he got what he needs and stopped being angry?