Honesty isn't always the best policy

Could we stop with the "fuck you"s? People have different opinions which is exactly what a person is looking for when they ask for advice or put something out there for other people to comment on. Yes, responding to people in TDS should always be done in a tactful and gentle manner because we come here for support, but everybody has a different idea of what tactful and gentle means; however I think we can all agree that "fuck you" does not do anything but start a mini-war in the thread which is not helpful to the OP, TDS or this discussion. Thank you and carry on disagreeing!:)


Sorry herb, I was just reacting to being called an ass, I shouldn't have sunk to his level, won't happen again.
 
Its definitely illegal in terms of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Super illegal, as addiction is classified as a disability.

Well that's just crazy, In the military they have an offense called "self inflicted injury", you get court marshaled for doing it.
 
captaincaveman said:
After the call I sent him an email saying that at that time I was having some issues with substances due to the death of my mother and he emailed me back saying that he really appreciated my frankness and they would like to to see me again and get me onboard.

He said he'd like to see you again and get you onboard? The rest of your post indicates you didn't get the job but I'm confused by this. Did he say this first and then backtrack later on? Do you know for sure this is the reason you didn't get the job?

You say you're hardly a risk but it's not so easy for the employer to see that. Like most others have said, I can understand that the company did think you were a risk. Because, I do actually think if you have two identical candidates except one has admitted to using drugs, then going from the available info, they are the more risky choice. That's not to say that everyone who uses drugs is a bad employee, but drug use/abuse is sometimes correlated with other behaviours that are undesirable for a workforce, and if that's the only apparent difference between two candidates, I think the decision will be the same 99 times out of a 100.
 
Drugs are drugs. They are illegal and you cannot expect a business to expose themselves to that type of liability. By saying you are a drug addict, you are admitting that you are a much higher liability than someone else. Just don't do it.

I work at a cool fucking company and pretty much everyone smokes weed, but nobody wants to hear that someone has a substance abuse issue, be it alcohol, hard drugs, marijuana, etc...



As far as addiction being a disease, yes, but that is not totally accurate.
Is it a disease that causes compulsive actions unbeknownst to the afflicted? Not in most cases.
Nor is it like cancer or hiv, or any of those.

If I had to compare it to one, I would say Diabetes, which is easily managed with medical therapy, just like addiction. However, if you want to make that analogy, you would have no fucking reason to tell your employer you had diabetes, because really, if it is not presently affecting your life, no one wants to hear about it.
 
In some ways I think it could also be a cry for help, by saying I am addicted to drugs but I still want the job is a way of saying "I'm OK really, aren't I ?" which is an indication that you really have a nagging doubt in the back of your mind that you are not OK, not behaving responsibly and you are looking for approval from others to reassure yourself that you are normal.
 
In some ways I think it could also be a cry for help, by saying I am addicted to drugs but I still want the job is a way of saying "I'm OK really, aren't I ?" which is an indication that you really have a nagging doubt in the back of your mind that you are not OK, not behaving responsibly and you are looking for approval from others to reassure yourself that you are normal.

No Kevin, it wasn't cry for help believe me. I think I explained what was probably going through my mind subconsciouly when I sent the email. I'm not 'normal' who is, altrhough I do behave responsibly and I'm generally OK. Again hate to admit it but it was probably my subconscious ego saying, 'lets see how much these morons really want you'.
And yes, forgot who asked but the email back said they really appreciated the honestly (frankness he used) and would like to see me again with a view to getting me on board. Probably then had a meeting with the board who told him NO WAY!. Shit happens, I'm happy enough where I am but I'm seeing another publishing company tomorrow adn I know what I'm not going to say. If asked, I'll tell them that year my mum died and it was difficult. Depressed, work suffered (won't tell them what I did at work though!) and should be ok.
 
To Doommood: Sure why not as long as I have the ACLU behind me I would. Although it would be kind of like Cartman being the poster boy for NAMBLA It is definitely not positive exposure

Put your $$$ where your mouth is:

http://www.aclu.org

Call them up. Tell them your about to reveal your drug abuse history to your employer. When you get fired (which you will eventually), they WILL pick up your case, I promise you that much.

Now, whether or not they WIN is a different ballgame entirely. But you feel confident with the ACLU behind you, correct?

Thats the point entirely: it is NOT positive exposure. You will be martyr'd. Because, when they lose the FIRST case (and I promise you they will), and you are left with no job, and no court settlement, at least us addicts will be there to shake your hand and call you a martyr for the cause. If youre willing to MARTYR yourself like that, you will have all the love/respect possible from me.

Now, as for this:

Care to elaborate/clarify ^^ ?

I dunno what you want me to clarify really. As addiction itself becomes more common place, people will realize ADDICTION IS ADDICTION. Meaning a sex addict is no different from a drug addict. Meaning more widespread acceptance of ADDICTION, and more rights on our behalf. Addiction is addiction. And when the child of every senator has an addiction, and they all realize they are STILL PEOPLE, maybe we'll get some rulings and laws in our favor.

As for THIS:
Well that's just crazy, In the military they have an offense called "self inflicted injury", you get court marshaled for doing it.

You may disagree, but thats the law. Disagreement with a law does not invalidate it. It is illegal. We qualify under the ADA. Look it up if you dont believe me. But, as i have stated, despite us QUALIFYING, that does not mean people follow through and follow the law. As I have stated more than once, they DQ you for another reason.

Addiction is classified as a DISEASE in the USA! Whether or not you agree with that is on you, but that is the actual category it falls under. And DQ'ing someone for a disease is illegal according to the ADA. Akin to the fact that you cannot fire someone for having HIV/AIDS, you cannot fire someone for any other disease. But as I keep repeatedly stating: they find a legal reason to DQ you for an illegal reason.

Whether or not it IS a disease is an entirely different ballgame. I believe due to overlapping characteristics of diseases/addiction it inherently must be one; genetic predispositioin combined with environmental factors and lifestyle choices: sounds identical to type 2 diabetes to me. But regardless, my personal belief as well as most other peoples, is currently irrelevant: as of me writing this today, it IS classified as a disease, meaning it falls under the ADA in these circumstances.

its unfair. Its unjust. We DO have something that has, at minimum, characteristics of a disease. But: its life.
 
If your top priority was to be totally honest or to prove a certain point I salute you, because that is a tough one and it takes a strong personality.

But never forget to calculate the consequences before you act. You know that us addicts have a bad reputation among society. You didn't know how the CEO thinks about addicts, what experiences he made in the past and what his general situation businesswise is. Maybe he is under pressure right now and simply can't afford a failure.

If you aren't a dumbass you knew before that this could happen.
I think nothing of complaining about consequences when they were forseeable. You should always decide based on reality, not on moral or ideals unless you are ready to hazard the consequences.

That isn't unfair, it's like it is.
 
Yea regardlsss of other circumstancez i think being honest about being an addict to an employer is a real bad move. My work knows but only because i came in fucked up so much it was undeniable and it was either get honest and go to rehab or lose my job so it worrkd out thus far
 
If certain people at work find out I'm an addict chances are I'm fucked forever with this job. I work in health care and have quite easy access to narcotics as well as a lot of responsibility. The day will come when I'm stable as well as established enough to make a change. But right now I have to deal with it or get another job.
 
If your top priority was to be totally honest or to prove a certain point I salute you, because that is a tough one and it takes a strong personality.

But never forget to calculate the consequences before you act. You know that us addicts have a bad reputation among society. You didn't know how the CEO thinks about addicts, what experiences he made in the past and what his general situation businesswise is. Maybe he is under pressure right now and simply can't afford a failure.

If you aren't a dumbass you knew before that this could happen.
I think nothing of complaining about consequences when they were forseeable. You should always decide based on reality, not on moral or ideals unless you are ready to hazard the consequences.

That isn't unfair, it's like it is.

Exactly what I'm saying. But that doesn't mean its not unfair.

Just because its life and we need to deal with it doesn't mean its not fucked up.

Youre 100% right, it is what it is. Until someone changes it it will stay that way. But it doesn't mean its unfair. As a drug addict yourself, i am sure you know you are more qualified than other non addicts. But at least youre aware that it is what it is.

Dont have to like it, agree with it, or any of that shit. Just accept it for what it is and deal with the realities. Its still unfair despite it being reality though. Often times unfair and reality overlap quite a bit. But you are correct in saying that you have to deal with it.

Thats life, you accept what it is, deal with the unfairness, and react to it in a method that is possible for you. Not hopes and dreams. Yes its unfair, but I am very pragmatic about my approach to it, as I said: cover it up like a tattoo until the stigma disappears. My method of reacting is trying to illicit change within my control, but at the same time as i've said, i am by no means foolish enough to desire to bethe martyr.

Once again: thats life. You are absolutely correct about the solution to this unfairness as i've said: Deal with it, or do something about it. I do something about it in the only way I know how: by educating people. Showing people that drug addicts are human beings, that they are capable/incapable as just as much as the next guy.

In fact, on the topic of drug addicts and their professional careers, I once saw a study that showed people in recovery (NA/AA/IOP/etc) make it much further professionally than others. Why is that? Because we addicts are TENACIOUS. once we grab a hold of something we enjoy doing, we stick to it to say the least.

Think of how fucking difficult it actually is to wake up, EVERY DAY, and subject yourself to the horrors of addiction. To the ups and downs, the lying cheating stealing and shame, the horrendous comments, the destruction to your body; how hard it is to wake up every single day, see a piece of shit int he mirror, and KEEP DOING IT! Its hard as shit if you really think about it. Hard as fuck to live that lifestyle of going penny to penny, fix to fix. It is also hard as shit to get clean, but the point is:

We addicts clamp down on shit as hard as pitbulls and rots. And once you get a good grip and hold on the 'arm' of your career, hobby, etc you aint lettin go until someone pries you off with a crowbar. An addict can focus their addictive behaviors in a positive way. and when they do? They practice swinging that bat like no other, and hit a home fucking run day in and day out.

Use your tenacity to your advantages people!
 
Hey, seems like our attitudes are really nearby each other ;) I even agree to your point about recovering addicts being highly functional. I experience that myself every day and would call myself extremely functional at the moment. But I have to admit that I have a self-destruct button right in my face. I just have to say "fuck it, I'll get high" and all I won't be tenacious when it comes to career any more. That's a risk that has to be calculated. Anyways, if I was an employer and had the choice to hire a stable, recovering addict or a generic person with similar qualifications I would always hire the ex-addict.
 
Well VanWeyden, it's funny. My friend has a top job at a multinational telecoms company in IT. His boss is always 'boring' them (his words) not mine about how he recovered from a destructive coke and booze habit. Now if that guy had been interviewing me, who knows? The point is this got a little heated as herbavore pointed out. Is it unfair to judge someone on their past actions (in my case I think with reasonable cause) no, its not. But even a CEO has to answer to shareholders and the like and could be in the shit if I go on a bender and the magazine isn't published. So everyones right really. Is it fair to be judged on a period of my life when I was having a bad time and took what I thought was the easy way out (jesus it wasn't) probably not. But the original response was correct. Why volunteer info? I thought as the guy was from California he might like a wild card on his team. His board probably felt different (I've got the email but shouldn't post for obvious reasons). We live in the real world and I was told that I was the best candidate they'd seen (academic, experience etc). I just pushed a little hard. Anyway, I'm off to see another major company tomorrow morning and I've learnt my lesson. I've got a good job but just as I was with drugs, I want a little more (sounds like Mr Brownstone by GnR!). And who knows maybe the guy had a kid who was screwing up on drugs. I'm not losing sleep over it (unless he tells my current employer what I told him then I'll just say he offered my the job only if I blew him or something). Anyway wish me luck tomorrow and friday I'm meeting with another company. Not going to mention drug abuse until I've got a signed contract, then they can't do shit
 
I just have to say "fuck it, I'll get high" and all I won't be tenacious when it comes to career any more. That's a risk that has to be calculated.

You see, this is why my drug of choice is meth and meth-like RC stims. You don't have to choose between getting high and working because when you're high you wanna work!
 
Its definitely illegal in terms of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Super illegal, as addiction is classified as a disability.

But you have to be "in treatment" and "treatment" has yet to be defined. Additionally, how does an employer make adequate allowances for a recovering addict in the workplace? It's not always clear for the visually impaired let alone for someone in recovery.

It's no better in my field (medicine)--I know that I have missed out on some jobs because of my illness and I'm a doctor, where I'm obligated to disclose my history of substance abuse. To other doctors, nonetheless.
 
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Think of how fucking difficult it actually is to wake up, EVERY DAY, and subject yourself to the horrors of addiction. To the ups and downs, the lying cheating stealing and shame, the horrendous comments, the destruction to your body; how hard it is to wake up every single day, see a piece of shit int he mirror, and KEEP DOING IT! Its hard as shit if you really think about it. Hard as fuck to live that lifestyle of going penny to penny, fix to fix. It is also hard as shit to get clean, but the point is:

We addicts clamp down on shit as hard as pitbulls and rots. And once you get a good grip and hold on the 'arm' of your career, hobby, etc you aint lettin go until someone pries you off with a crowbar. An addict can focus their addictive behaviors in a positive way. and when they do? They practice swinging that bat like no other, and hit a home fucking run day in and day out.


That could be a disadvantage if you need an employee to be open minded, flexible, able to problem solve by thinking outside the box, be prepared to find working solutions to problems by re inventing the wheel when needed, who can listen to other team members or outside advisers and technical analysts and adopt alternative ideas and strategies.

The last thing needed in those kinds of professional environments is someone who "Digs their heels in" and insists on doing the same compulsive thing over and over again every day. What most employers look for, especially these days, is someone who can multitask, who can swap between roles, who isn't clinging to any ideas about themselves or the operational methods of business.
 
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