Honesty isn't always the best policy

[captaincaveman]

Hey peeps,
I was approached by a large publishing house about a job that would have meant a big payrise but more importantly (for me) writing about something I actually care about. Anyway, I meet the UK editorial director and it went really well and then he organised a transatlantic call with their CEO. Now my CV has some unusual things in it a few years ago. After the call I sent him an email saying that at that time I was having some issues with substances due to the death of my mother and he emailed me back saying that he really appreciated my frankness and they would like to to see me again and get me onboard.
People, if you think that powerful people have a sense of humanity and compassion and that they might understand that personal tragedy might lead to unfortunate habits, don't. Research has shown that CEOs are usually sociopaths, who only care about profits, its true. I was hardly a risk, I've had plenty of work since my difficulties and yes I know most are going to say I'm mad for admitting substance abuse to a potential employer but I stupidly thought that I'll be honest. The fact that he said he appreciated my honesty is what really galls. It's taught me an important lesson, don't project your own set of beliefs on to other people. Well screw them, I've still got a job and I've interest from other magazines. In hindsight perhaps I should have just said depression rather than what that led to. Live and learn, now I'm going to be extremely guarded

 

[webbykevin]

Why would you even mention it, did it have anything to do with your ability to do the job ? did they ask ? if not then you only have yourself to blame, it's got nothing to do with being guarded it's nobodys business, did you volunteer them information about your sexual habits, about your food preferences, what tv shows you watch ?

Don't blame the CEO, he was just protecting his business, his company and his shareholders, I would have done the same as him if i was in his position. The fact that YOU brought it up would have led me to suspect you were an accident waiting to happen.

What were you thinking !

 

[ihatepipes]

Why would you even mention it, did it have anything to do with your ability to do the job ? did they ask ? if not then you only have yourself to blame, it's got nothing to do with being guarded it's nobodys business, did you volunteer them information about your sexual habits, about your food preferences, what tv shows you watch ?

Don't blame the CEO, he was just protecting his business, his company and his shareholders, I would have done the same as him if i was in his position. The fact that YOU brought it up would have led me to suspect you were an accident waiting to happen.

What were you thinking !

^^ Sorry to flame you but you my friend are an ass. That is exactly the fucking problem with drugs/honesty about use. Don't you think the CEO should be aware of the situation should problems arise? You can never get a chance. I would be making progress with my therapist right now except I fear that if I tell him what the real deal is I will be fucking stigmatized and labeled as an addict, lose a certain status I am lucky enough to possess, and which could cause future problems in my life.

If the problem that is drugs is ever going to be brought under control it is going to have to be treated as a medical problem and not a moral problem.

Would you have not given him a job if he was HIV positive moron?

Sorry for the mini rant but I am pissed with this whole situation due to factors in my life right now.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

People don't always react the way you think they will. You know what they say about assuming.

 

[OhCrap]

I think when it comes to potential employers and substance abuse, honesty is usually not the best policy in all fairness, most addicts are irresponsible, dishonest and unreliable which are all terrible qualities in an employee. While you may be the exception to the rule you can't blame him for not giving you the benefit of the doubt in this situation

 

[webbykevin]

^^ Sorry to flame you but you my friend are an ass. That is exactly the fucking problem with drugs/honesty about use. Don't you think the CEO should be aware of the situation should problems arise? You can never get a chance. I would be making progress with my therapist right now except I fear that if I tell him what the real deal is I will be fucking stigmatized and labeled as an addict, lose a certain status I am lucky enough to possess, and which could cause future problems in my life.

If the problem that is drugs is ever going to be brought under control it is going to have to be treated as a medical problem and not a moral problem.

Would you have not given him a job if he was HIV positive moron?

Sorry for the mini rant but I am pissed with this whole situation due to factors in my life right now.

Fuck you too, I wasn't putting down the OP's drug use or judging him in any way. I was just pointing out that CEO's of major companies DO have bias when it comes to this kind of thing, and thinking otherwise is naive wishful thinking, if you want to make a statement and hope that it may in some way change the mainstream view and are prepared to take rejection as a consequence then that's fine and I support that kind on courage and conviction, but to do it AND expect to get the job at this stage of the game in 2012 is foolish, it just ain't gonna happen. I wish it was different too BUT IT ISN'T.

Wake up and smell the coffee mate.

 

[Mel22]

I think when it comes to potential employers and substance abuse, honesty is usually not the best policy in all fairness, most addicts are irresponsible, dishonest and unreliable which are all terrible qualities in an employee. While you may be the exception to the rule you can't blame him for not giving you the benefit of the doubt in this situation

^ This. It is too much of a risk for most employers, and it doesn't mean that they're judging you or hating on you personally - it's just business and $$.

I am a user myself, and also solely responsible for the hiring at the company I work for...and at the risk of getting flamed: I would not hire an addict/ex-addict. He probably did genuinely appreciate your honesty, but could not afford the added risk regardless. Don't take it personally, and just don't divulge this information to prospective employers in future.

 

[Deleted member 210577]

Don't blame the CEO, he was just protecting his business, his company and his shareholders, I would have done the same as him if i was in his position. The fact that YOU brought it up would have led me to suspect you were an accident waiting to happen.

+1 . Business is business I'm afraid. If I owned a business, whilst I'd appreciate the honesty, I would have done exactly the same. Nothing against the person, they could be completely reformed and have great potential, but you have to make the judgement on ONE phone call.. it's not like you get a chance to know the person over time and judge that way.. so you have to play it safe and go on what you know about the person there and then.

As for the comment about HIV.. actually if there was a life expectancy on the person I probably would not hire either. Depends on what the job was though. Again nothing to do with how I feel about HIV, doesn't bother me at all, but if I knew my potential employee was going to die in 1 year then it would probably be best to look for another candidate. Business is a harsh environment.. that's just the way it is :/

 

[DooMMooD]

Its definitely illegal in terms of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Super illegal, as addiction is classified as a disability.

But is it the norm of society to push out and discriminate against addicts? Absolutely. For every reason people have listed above.

the REAL problem about it is, is that until a case gets brought before court, we will get no understanding, no leanings in our favor. We will continue to be discriminated against, if you are foolish enough to reveal the problem. And we probably will not get a court case for awhile, because, while your drug addiction was the TRUE REASON you were denied, most employers put down another reason on paper, to avoid these exact court cases. You didn't lose the job because of your (past) addiction, you lots the job for another reason entirely.

See where the technicality causes an issue, and hampers evolution and understanding of the issue?

Do not worry, we will get there eventually as addictions become more and more common place, and more and more overlapping (internet addiction, drug addiction, sex addiction, eventually people will realize they are ALL addiction and what applies to one will apply to another). Eventually, when every senator has a child in treatment for addiction, we'll get some understanding.

Until then, the current solution? Don't ask, dont tell. If they don't inquire, keep your mouth shut. Its something you can cover up and hide, like a tattoo, and sadly until we receive widespread acceptance, your best bet professionally is keep your mouth shut for as long as possible. . Not the best way to progress the issue, but the best solution for you, personally.

If you want to be the martyr I will give you all the love/respect in the world. The problem is, no one wants to be that court case the ACLU brings forward and presents to the country. You want to be the poster child of addiction discrimination?

 

[jones-in_J]

Unfortunately the cats outta the fuckin bag at my work they all mnow my deal cuz oof my dumb ass coming in so blitzed they paid for a taxi for me to go home..... twice

Dunno what id do if id lose this job.... thought before id walk up to the front door and shoot myself in the head just to be a dick but i actually dont think i would..

=\

 

[captaincaveman]

To be honest if my old sponsor had read that post he would say it was down to my ego and he might have a point. We struggled on Step 4 due to my ego for a long time. If I was desperate for a job or had a family to feed, would I have sent that email? No effing way. I hate to admit it because it makes me sound like an arse but I was flattered that they had approached me and maybe part of me thought let's see how sh*t hot I really am and give them some gruesome details. I didn't consciously do that, but my friends who I've told about it reckon that's what was behind it. I'm really not that good at what I do that an employer is going to pay me a huge salary with the risk that I might relapse and take down his magazine with me. Lesson learned. Recovery is about humility as much as anything, something I got to work on. Cheers guys, always appreciate the input.

 

[herbavore]

I know that I just said this in another thread but I do want to say that, while it may be considered stupid and naive to do what captaincaveman did by many I can give two examples to contradict what others have said thusfar.

The first example is my brother who had two drug felonies and a years-long gap in employment when he got out of a bootcamp rehab which he had been sent to in lieu of prison. He applied for an electrician job with a large company and he looked the guy right in the eye and told him that when he did a background check he was going to see two drug felony charges. He told the guy where he had been and that he was in recovery and that he was hoping that he would take a chance on him. The guy apparently was impressed enough with his honesty that he did. My brother promised him that if he took a chance on him he would never regret it and he made sure the guy never did when he got hired. He worked for him a few years and then started his own company. I can assure you that my brother would be both wary, having been an addict, and empathetic, having been a recovering addict that needed a fresh start, should he get big enough to hire someone else.

The second example is my husband who, because of our experience with our son's addiction and the legal and other obstacles in his life, has hired an employee that was recently in recovery simply because of the understanding he has gained.

I will always believe that honesty and integrity make all the difference in the world. I'm not so naive as to think that this always works and I would never judge someone for trying to get employment any way they can. It's just that I've seen secret-keeping backfire as many times as I have seen honesty fail.

 

[xxsicknessxx]

i think the title says it all

 

[Jabberwocky]

damn that's bad..definitely should never have mentioned it :/

If the problem that is drugs is ever going to be brought under control it is going to have to be treated as a medical problem and not a moral problem.

Drugs' problems aren't an either/or. If anything (IME) it's usually a moral problem that creates a medical problem.

 

[ihatepipes]

Its definitely illegal in terms of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Super illegal, as addiction is classified as a disability.

But is it the norm of society to push out and discriminate against addicts? Absolutely. For every reason people have listed above.

the REAL problem about it is, is that until a case gets brought before court, we will get no understanding, no leanings in our favor. We will continue to be discriminated against, if you are foolish enough to reveal the problem. And we probably will not get a court case for awhile, because, while your drug addiction was the TRUE REASON you were denied, most employers put down another reason on paper, to avoid these exact court cases. You didn't lose the job because of your (past) addiction, you lots the job for another reason entirely.

See where the technicality causes an issue, and hampers evolution and understanding of the issue?

Do not worry, we will get there eventually as addictions become more and more common place, and more and more overlapping (internet addiction, drug addiction, sex addiction, eventually people will realize they are ALL addiction and what applies to one will apply to another). Eventually, when every senator has a child in treatment for addiction, we'll get some understanding.

Until then, the current solution? Don't ask, dont tell. If they don't inquire, keep your mouth shut. Its something you can cover up and hide, like a tattoo, and sadly until we receive widespread acceptance, your best bet professionally is keep your mouth shut for as long as possible. . Not the best way to progress the issue, but the best solution for you, personally.

If you want to be the martyr I will give you all the love/respect in the world. The problem is, no one wants to be that court case the ACLU brings forward and presents to the country. You want to be the poster child of addiction discrimination?

To webbykevin: Fuck you, you ripped the OP a new ass for being honest which he should be able to do. I partially apologize for the way I posted, but why make the OP feel worse? But as I said some things I am going through are causing me to become really disgusted with the whole situation.

To Doommood: Sure why not as long as I have the ACLU behind me I would. Although it would be kind of like Cartman being the poster boy for NAMBLA It is definitely not positive exposure

 

[ihatepipes]

damn that's bad..definitely should never have mentioned it :/


Drugs' problems aren't an either/or. If anything (IME) it's usually a moral problem that creates a medical problem.

Would you please clarify that statement.

 

[Insane Platypus]

I think it's better to have a built up a relationship with a level of trust before disclosing drug issues to people.

If employers are doing a job search with a bunch of strangers, they have to make a bunch of snap judgments with limited information. Some won't care about past drug issues, but it will be a red flag for many. Unless it's affecting your ability to do the job now, I don't think there's a point in telling potential employers about it.

 

[SaosinEngaged]

A company would only see you as a liability in that scenario. It's the cold, hard, truth. As a human resources manager, I can confirm if someone approaches me for a job and admits to a substance abuse problem, I couldn't hire them in 9/10 scenarios, despite being a substance abuser myself. Because if my higher ups got wind of that, it'd be my ass on the chopping block.

It sucks, and it's morally and fundamentally backwards, but that's corporate America. And yes, most CEO's and successful businessmen do, in fact, exhibit sociopathic behaviors. There is no humanity, there is only profit. If you're a potential risk to profit, count yourself out of a job.

 

[Jabberwocky]

sure- drug problems that have serious medical implications begin due to misuse (ie a 'moral' problem. unless you consider self-inflicted medical conditions from addiction acceptable, of course ;p )

 

[herbavore]

Could we stop with the "fuck you"s? People have different opinions which is exactly what a person is looking for when they ask for advice or put something out there for other people to comment on. Yes, responding to people in TDS should always be done in a tactful and gentle manner because we come here for support, but everybody has a different idea of what tactful and gentle means; however I think we can all agree that "fuck you" does not do anything but start a mini-war in the thread which is not helpful to the OP, TDS or this discussion. Thank you and carry on disagreeing!