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AADD Moderators: Tronica
Honestly, who feels sorry for the shot car thieves?
- Thread starter jakoz
- Start date
Busty St Clare
Ex-Bluelighter
I didn't realise knowing how to set a dining table and an off button on the television remote was classy 8)
Busty St Clare
Ex-Bluelighter
Probably why so many junkies pawn theirs 
honestly, all interactions i've had with the nsw cops have demonstrated that they approach matters with a lot of care. they may sometimes do shit which i strongly disagree to (such as dispersing the occupy folks) but these are not decisions that the average cop has control over.
they got my respect.
also, consider that two kids were shot and neither died. i still feel bad for them, and the way that they were raised to be in such a fucking stupid predicament.
they got my respect.
also, consider that two kids were shot and neither died. i still feel bad for them, and the way that they were raised to be in such a fucking stupid predicament.
poledriver
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 11,543
in support of spacejunks view of cops -
Tasered for not showing his ticket
Police said this passenger was abusive and aggressive, but nothing could have been further from the truth.
A golf day ended in the rough for Michael Lindsay. A few beers at hole 19 and a bus ride to his Freshwater home went from a 26th birthday celebration to being wrongfully arrested and shot with a Taser by police.
Mr Lindsay's first mistake on May 27 last year was not producing his ticket fast enough for inspecting transit officers at Dee Why terminal at 7pm. The second, as he searched for his errant pass, was making a wisecrack that the four officers were a waste of taxpayers' money.
One of the officers got upset about the jibe, and the builder apologised for being a ''smart-arse''. But his mea culpa was not enough and the officer called northern beaches police.
Three police officers boarded the bus and ordered Mr Lindsay off. When he got off the bus and went to walk away from police - shocked at how a joke could go so wrong (his third mistake) - things got much worse and potentially fatal.
The officer in charge, Constable Ryan Godfrey, drew his Taser and sent 50,000 volts into Mr Lindsay's lower back. An ambulance was called and police charged Mr Lindsay with offensive language, resisting arrest and assaulting police.
But then police would go on tell a court their version of events.
Under cross examination at the Downing Centre Local Court on March 12, Constable Godfrey repeatedly said Mr Lindsay had and been ''loud and aggressive'' towards officers on the bus.
He told the court that when Mr Lindsay was asked to leave the bus, ''He's replied with words similar to, 'This is f---ed, it takes f---ing four of you c---s to do this, this is f---ed.'''
Constable Godfrey then described a struggle on the footpath outside the bus when trying to handcuff Mr Lindsay. ''That was proving rather difficult. As I said, he's of large stature. He was overpowering us.''
He then fired his Taser into Mr Lindsay's lower back.
''After further police arrived to assist us, Constable [Sam] Parkinson approached me and said that he'd been assaulted by Mr Lindsay. He said he was elbowed in the face.''
When Mr Lindsay's barrister, Greg Jones, asked Constable Godfrey if in fact his client had been polite and on the bus used the expressions ''please'' and ''excuse me'', he replied, ''I don't recall that.''
Constable Parkinson and Constable Christopher Gould along with four transit officers all corroborated Constable Godfrey's story that Mr Lindsay was ''loud and aggressive'', intoxicated and using ''f--- and c---'' towards officers. The court was then shown a passenger's mobile phone footage of what happened on the bus.
The footage, which will be central to Mr Lindsay's upcoming District Court case for wrongful arrest, false imprisonment, assault and malicious prosecution, tells a different story.
Indeed, it shows Mr Lindsay repeatedly using the phrases ''please'' and ''excuse me'' when addressing officers. At no point does he swear. A bus passenger is heard warning him not to swear at police, while another is heard saying to the police that Mr Lindsay had apologised to the transit officer. Mr Lindsay is seen getting off the bus without any aggression towards the police.
After the footage was shown to the court, the police prosecutor, Sergeant Grant Bucknell, immediately withdrew all the charges.
When quizzed by the court about the sudden change of heart, Sergeant Bucknell said that when Mr Lindsay was arrested, ''police officers had not heard [him] using offensive language''. Rather, Constable Godfrey had ''reconstructed what was heard from what he was told by the transit officers''.
The magistrate, Lee Gilmour, warned Sergeant Bucknell ''to stop mucking around''. ''I want to stop you for a moment before you say anything else because I don't think it would be fair to place you in a situation of complicity in relation to trying to argue something that clearly was a lie and that's what you're doing.''
Sergeant Bucknell responded: ''I have nothing further to say.''
Ms Gilmour said the proceedings were based on ''bad faith'' because Constable Godfrey lied under oath. She awarded $12,000 in costs to Mr Lindsay. ''The problem for the prosecution in this case is that … clearly, unfortunately, this officer has lied both as to what he said occurred and the basis upon which he [Mr Lindsay] was asked to move off the bus; there does not seem to be any lawful basis upon which he was,'' Ms Gilmour said.
Despite Constable Godfrey repeatedly saying Mr Lindsay swore, the magistrate found the police had not heard any offensive language.
''The bus driver is clearly seen in some of the evidence before the court. He was not interviewed; nor was anybody independent of the transit police officers and that would seem to me, in these circumstances, to have been a deliberate omission,'' she said.
Yesterday homicide squad detectives renewed their appeal for witnesses to the death of Roberto Laudisio Curti, a 21-year-old Brazilian student who died after police tasered him in Sydney's CBD in March. A coroner's investigation of his death continues.
According to NSW police policy, Tasers are only to be used in ''high-risk'' cases to protect life, or when there is violent confrontation or an officer is being overpowered.
NSW police have begun an internal investigation of Constable Godfrey's actions, as is standard procedure for failed police prosecutions. ''It has now been referred to the Professional Standards Command for investigation and will be oversighted by the NSW Ombudsman,'' police said.
'Mate, he's done nothing; he's apologised'
What the court heard
Cross examination of Constable Ryan Godfrey:
Q: So you said: ''Mate you've been asked to leave the bus''?
A: And he's replied with words similar to ''This is f---ed, it takes four f---ing of you c---s to do this.''
Q: Can you describe his tone and volume?
A: It was loud, so it could be well heard on the bus.
Q: And his tone?
A: Loud and aggressive.
Q: When you boarded the bus you said, ''Jump off the bus, I'll have a chat to you on the footpath,'' … Mr Lindsay said, ''No, thank you.''
A: I don't recall him saying ''no, thank you'' …
Q: Can I clarify, don't recall, don't remember or it didn't happen?
A: I don't recall.
iPhone recording taken by a passenger on the bus:
Officer: Jump off the bus, I'll have a chat to you on the footpath.
ML: No, thank you.
Officer: Well mate if you don't jump off the bus …
Witness: Mate, he's done nothing; he's apologised.
…
Officer: No, he can come off the bus and chat to us because, I don't appreciate your smart-arse comment so …
ML: Excuse me, what was my smart-arse comment?
…
Witness: Don't swear at him, just don't swear at him.
ML: I'm not.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/tasered-for-not-showing-his-ticket-20120630-219m3.html
here is an article in todays SMH about how some cops are very much overly aggressive and use their tazers (or guns) when they possibly should not -
Tasered for not showing his ticket
Police said this passenger was abusive and aggressive, but nothing could have been further from the truth.
A golf day ended in the rough for Michael Lindsay. A few beers at hole 19 and a bus ride to his Freshwater home went from a 26th birthday celebration to being wrongfully arrested and shot with a Taser by police.
Mr Lindsay's first mistake on May 27 last year was not producing his ticket fast enough for inspecting transit officers at Dee Why terminal at 7pm. The second, as he searched for his errant pass, was making a wisecrack that the four officers were a waste of taxpayers' money.
One of the officers got upset about the jibe, and the builder apologised for being a ''smart-arse''. But his mea culpa was not enough and the officer called northern beaches police.
Three police officers boarded the bus and ordered Mr Lindsay off. When he got off the bus and went to walk away from police - shocked at how a joke could go so wrong (his third mistake) - things got much worse and potentially fatal.
The officer in charge, Constable Ryan Godfrey, drew his Taser and sent 50,000 volts into Mr Lindsay's lower back. An ambulance was called and police charged Mr Lindsay with offensive language, resisting arrest and assaulting police.
But then police would go on tell a court their version of events.
Under cross examination at the Downing Centre Local Court on March 12, Constable Godfrey repeatedly said Mr Lindsay had and been ''loud and aggressive'' towards officers on the bus.
He told the court that when Mr Lindsay was asked to leave the bus, ''He's replied with words similar to, 'This is f---ed, it takes f---ing four of you c---s to do this, this is f---ed.'''
Constable Godfrey then described a struggle on the footpath outside the bus when trying to handcuff Mr Lindsay. ''That was proving rather difficult. As I said, he's of large stature. He was overpowering us.''
He then fired his Taser into Mr Lindsay's lower back.
''After further police arrived to assist us, Constable [Sam] Parkinson approached me and said that he'd been assaulted by Mr Lindsay. He said he was elbowed in the face.''
When Mr Lindsay's barrister, Greg Jones, asked Constable Godfrey if in fact his client had been polite and on the bus used the expressions ''please'' and ''excuse me'', he replied, ''I don't recall that.''
Constable Parkinson and Constable Christopher Gould along with four transit officers all corroborated Constable Godfrey's story that Mr Lindsay was ''loud and aggressive'', intoxicated and using ''f--- and c---'' towards officers. The court was then shown a passenger's mobile phone footage of what happened on the bus.
The footage, which will be central to Mr Lindsay's upcoming District Court case for wrongful arrest, false imprisonment, assault and malicious prosecution, tells a different story.
Indeed, it shows Mr Lindsay repeatedly using the phrases ''please'' and ''excuse me'' when addressing officers. At no point does he swear. A bus passenger is heard warning him not to swear at police, while another is heard saying to the police that Mr Lindsay had apologised to the transit officer. Mr Lindsay is seen getting off the bus without any aggression towards the police.
After the footage was shown to the court, the police prosecutor, Sergeant Grant Bucknell, immediately withdrew all the charges.
When quizzed by the court about the sudden change of heart, Sergeant Bucknell said that when Mr Lindsay was arrested, ''police officers had not heard [him] using offensive language''. Rather, Constable Godfrey had ''reconstructed what was heard from what he was told by the transit officers''.
The magistrate, Lee Gilmour, warned Sergeant Bucknell ''to stop mucking around''. ''I want to stop you for a moment before you say anything else because I don't think it would be fair to place you in a situation of complicity in relation to trying to argue something that clearly was a lie and that's what you're doing.''
Sergeant Bucknell responded: ''I have nothing further to say.''
Ms Gilmour said the proceedings were based on ''bad faith'' because Constable Godfrey lied under oath. She awarded $12,000 in costs to Mr Lindsay. ''The problem for the prosecution in this case is that … clearly, unfortunately, this officer has lied both as to what he said occurred and the basis upon which he [Mr Lindsay] was asked to move off the bus; there does not seem to be any lawful basis upon which he was,'' Ms Gilmour said.
Despite Constable Godfrey repeatedly saying Mr Lindsay swore, the magistrate found the police had not heard any offensive language.
''The bus driver is clearly seen in some of the evidence before the court. He was not interviewed; nor was anybody independent of the transit police officers and that would seem to me, in these circumstances, to have been a deliberate omission,'' she said.
Yesterday homicide squad detectives renewed their appeal for witnesses to the death of Roberto Laudisio Curti, a 21-year-old Brazilian student who died after police tasered him in Sydney's CBD in March. A coroner's investigation of his death continues.
According to NSW police policy, Tasers are only to be used in ''high-risk'' cases to protect life, or when there is violent confrontation or an officer is being overpowered.
NSW police have begun an internal investigation of Constable Godfrey's actions, as is standard procedure for failed police prosecutions. ''It has now been referred to the Professional Standards Command for investigation and will be oversighted by the NSW Ombudsman,'' police said.
'Mate, he's done nothing; he's apologised'
What the court heard
Cross examination of Constable Ryan Godfrey:
Q: So you said: ''Mate you've been asked to leave the bus''?
A: And he's replied with words similar to ''This is f---ed, it takes four f---ing of you c---s to do this.''
Q: Can you describe his tone and volume?
A: It was loud, so it could be well heard on the bus.
Q: And his tone?
A: Loud and aggressive.
Q: When you boarded the bus you said, ''Jump off the bus, I'll have a chat to you on the footpath,'' … Mr Lindsay said, ''No, thank you.''
A: I don't recall him saying ''no, thank you'' …
Q: Can I clarify, don't recall, don't remember or it didn't happen?
A: I don't recall.
iPhone recording taken by a passenger on the bus:
Officer: Jump off the bus, I'll have a chat to you on the footpath.
ML: No, thank you.
Officer: Well mate if you don't jump off the bus …
Witness: Mate, he's done nothing; he's apologised.
…
Officer: No, he can come off the bus and chat to us because, I don't appreciate your smart-arse comment so …
ML: Excuse me, what was my smart-arse comment?
…
Witness: Don't swear at him, just don't swear at him.
ML: I'm not.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/tasered-for-not-showing-his-ticket-20120630-219m3.html
junkie skumbag
Bluelighter
quiet roar
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2003
- Messages
- 4,989
Unfortunately the cops (and army, security firms, etc.) do attract power hungry losers that can't gain people's respect with their behaviour, so they go where a uniform will give them the respect/power they crave. Hence there will always be examples of them being cunts (as per poledriver's post)
^ a-fucking-men.
i'm not interesting in making more negative generalisations about police - i'm sure there are some alright people in uniform - but this idea that we shouldn't question/criticise police judgement/protocol (especially when it could very easily kill someone) bothers me.
thanks for that article, poledriver. i guess that's precisely what i'm talking about - the cops had no reason to fear for their lives. i've been hassled by transit guards for no good reason (i'm an orderly, polite, well-groomed member of society thanks busty!) and the idea that you could end up being assaulted with weapons then charged for making a smart-arse joke in public...well, that's not the australia i want to live in.
maybe people that don't use public transport, don't get about on the street and don't mix with the people on a regular basis have an ideological reason for wanting police/transit cops etc to be 'tough' - but all i really ask is for police to be reasonable. the police force is supposed to serve and protect the people after all, right?
yeah, i know you're reading this, mister plod.
i'm not interesting in making more negative generalisations about police - i'm sure there are some alright people in uniform - but this idea that we shouldn't question/criticise police judgement/protocol (especially when it could very easily kill someone) bothers me.
thanks for that article, poledriver. i guess that's precisely what i'm talking about - the cops had no reason to fear for their lives. i've been hassled by transit guards for no good reason (i'm an orderly, polite, well-groomed member of society thanks busty!) and the idea that you could end up being assaulted with weapons then charged for making a smart-arse joke in public...well, that's not the australia i want to live in.
maybe people that don't use public transport, don't get about on the street and don't mix with the people on a regular basis have an ideological reason for wanting police/transit cops etc to be 'tough' - but all i really ask is for police to be reasonable. the police force is supposed to serve and protect the people after all, right?
yeah, i know you're reading this, mister plod.
Ashley
Bluelight Crew
Fucking cops, screws, they can all go and get fucked. Nothing but trouble there.
CrayZ
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2010
- Messages
- 150
^ er, shouldn't be in the Graffiti thread?.
Funny how this thread has degenerated from "do i feel sorry for the arseholes that could easily have killed someone driving on the footpath after stealing a car?" to "do we trust all police?". I'm sure there is a difference there.
Funny how this thread has degenerated from "do i feel sorry for the arseholes that could easily have killed someone driving on the footpath after stealing a car?" to "do we trust all police?". I'm sure there is a difference there.
poledriver
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 11,543
There's a difference and there is also a link between cops over abusing power. How long could we keep talking about
anyway. I'm sure a mod would close it or warn us if they feel its way off topic or anything
laugh
Ex-Bluelighter
bullies that hide behind a badge with gang mentality imposing outdated ideals and rendering fear. an eye for an eye make the world go blind. why do we still punish rather than educate. wheres the progress people.
cassandragemini
Bluelighter
intersesting points. im the son of a cop, my mums been in the police since i was about 7 and i spent a lot of time as a kid and teenager hanging out in police stations and with cops both on and off duty. talk of cops as 'pigs' doesnt offend me, i think its stupid but ive been at the receiving end of police brutality myself, have seen worse and heard some god awful stories of cops doing terrible things from mum, like in every level of society and in all jobs there are bad eggs in the police force, no doubt about it. however this talk of cops as 'corrupt scum who's job is to push the agenda of the state' etc. pisses me off, its ignorant. it makes whoever's saying it look like a bigoted tool, i look at racists in the same way. no decent person joins the police to be a corrupt, violent arsehole, if you do then you're a cunt to begin with, with or withour the badge. most people join because they want to help people. unfortuantely they quickly realise that many of the people they signed up to help are living very troubled lives, many people hate them for some reason or other, sometimes for very valid reasons and generally they have to deal with all society's problems that no one else wants to deal with. tough gig.
cops are just people, some are shit heads, some are amazing people, some idealistic, some bent as elbows, none of the cops i have met have surprised me in terms of being anything other than normal people who get put in fucked up situations almost everyday. without getting too lame my mum is an awesome cop, she has worked in youth aid and helped kids get off drugs charges and into rehab, she organised graffitti classes for troubled kids and she would at my insistence hand-cuff and 'arrest' me from outside the bars for a party trick. shes definitely what i would call a good cop, genuinely out there to look after people.
in terms of having any empathy for these kids i think its tough to know how you should feel unless you actually know the real details of what happened. i hate violent crimes, i dont like thieves either but if you really have or want to steal then just do what you have to do and walk away, running someone over to get away is totally fucked. on the same token beating and shooting unarmed kids is totally wrong, if your or somebody elses safety is in definite serious danger then by all means stop them however you have too. the job of a cop is to deal with this sort of stuff and keep a level head while they do it, its got to be tough but thats what you signed up for. no cop should ever strike anyone out of their own anger, god it must be tough when all you get is abuse, you're tired because you work constantly changing shifts and somebody has done something like run an innocent person over and every fibre in your body wants you to dish out some street justice. its gets real tricky when you have inexperienced new cops and/or you're scared for you and your workmates. bad judgements and human error is probably a big part of police assaults.
there's nothing worse than seeing a cop when you dont want too but by god there is nothing better than seeing one when you do.
cops are just people, some are shit heads, some are amazing people, some idealistic, some bent as elbows, none of the cops i have met have surprised me in terms of being anything other than normal people who get put in fucked up situations almost everyday. without getting too lame my mum is an awesome cop, she has worked in youth aid and helped kids get off drugs charges and into rehab, she organised graffitti classes for troubled kids and she would at my insistence hand-cuff and 'arrest' me from outside the bars for a party trick. shes definitely what i would call a good cop, genuinely out there to look after people.
in terms of having any empathy for these kids i think its tough to know how you should feel unless you actually know the real details of what happened. i hate violent crimes, i dont like thieves either but if you really have or want to steal then just do what you have to do and walk away, running someone over to get away is totally fucked. on the same token beating and shooting unarmed kids is totally wrong, if your or somebody elses safety is in definite serious danger then by all means stop them however you have too. the job of a cop is to deal with this sort of stuff and keep a level head while they do it, its got to be tough but thats what you signed up for. no cop should ever strike anyone out of their own anger, god it must be tough when all you get is abuse, you're tired because you work constantly changing shifts and somebody has done something like run an innocent person over and every fibre in your body wants you to dish out some street justice. its gets real tricky when you have inexperienced new cops and/or you're scared for you and your workmates. bad judgements and human error is probably a big part of police assaults.
there's nothing worse than seeing a cop when you dont want too but by god there is nothing better than seeing one when you do.
poledriver
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 11,543
good post.