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Homeopathy: A complete waste of $$, and fraud too!

^Velocidex, you know, ranomised double blind trials protocols have not been around all that long - for instance, the first issue of "Controlled Clinical Trials" was published only in 1980.

nevertheless, they did manage to establish the efficacy and safety of a variety of pharmaceutical treatments before then.

RDBPCT protocols may be the latest and greatest for now, but without a doubt, they too shall be superceded.

the point i am making again is dont be in too much of a hurry to dismiss something out of hand just because it is not explained by or contradicts the current paradigm.
 
Ximot, Salvia and Homeopathy ain't in the same league in my opinion. Yet for some people they might be. My kitty was flying on 2 hits of good LSD once when a family crisis happened. She went stright for 2 hrs. dealt with it in a completely sober fasion and then when the pressure was off and she was able to relax immeadiatly got soaring stoned again and continued tripping. The power we have is more than what we injest it seems. Now for me I don't think I have a personal belief system that could do that on Salvia. Yet someday who knows. I have watched people for years come into where I sell supps and tell me how the latest and greatest thing just fixed all their physical problems. Yet three months later they have forgotton all about it and are telling me the same thing about the next great product that it just so happens is all the rage in the news right now. Go figure huh!;)
 
RDBPCT protocols may be the latest and greatest for now, but without a doubt, they too shall be superceded.
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But I bet you a dollar it won't be superceded by Homeopathy - or anything like it.

the point i am making again is dont be in too much of a hurry to dismiss something out of hand just because it is not explained by or contradicts the current paradigm.
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It has been explained.
 
I too work in the nutritional supplements industry.

I completely agree with VelocideX - homeopathy is laughable. Along with "Bach Flower Remedies" and the like. My mum believes in them and is always there dropping Rescue Remedy onto my tounge whenever I have a crisis. Sure, I feel better, but it's probably more because of the attention and soothing words I'm recieving ;)

It pains me that homeopathic 'science' and other quackery are out there because I do genuinely think there are some worthwhile and PROVEN natural remedies. Ones which have been extensively studied; such as Milk Thistle for liver protection/regeneration, Glucosamine to rebuild damaged joint cartilage, Cod Liver Oil and Omega-3's for the immune system and heart health, Fish oil as an anti-inflammatory .... Magnesium for muscle cramps (as has been previously mentioned) and so on and so on.

Most of these (above) have been clinically tested and studies reported in The Lancet and other well regarded medical journals. Others aren't so well studied, and some have even been debunked - echinacea for example.

Many 'home remedies' work far better, or just as well as, pharmacy medications. Have a cold? Put some eucalyptus oil (a natural expectorant) in a bowl of hot water and breathe in the vapours... voila.

Massage, acupunture, have their applications. I could go on and on.

It makes me sad that because some people sell snake oil, "natural remedies" get lumped into one basket by skeptics. I am not saying you are one VelocideX - you clearly pointed out basically what I've just said in your first post. But others do. It's important to keep your mind *and* your facalties of logical reasoning open when searching for what works for you.

The marketing some of these companies do is unbelievable. They'll do what they can get away with. Fortunately in Australia we have VERY strict guidelines on natural medicines - our governing body (the TGA) has the power to strip products off shelves, cancel your manufacturing license and fine you hundreds of thousands of dollars for breach of the advertising regulations. You can't even say "Helps" , for example "Helps the pain of arthritis". Its: "May help temporarily relieve the pain of arthritis".

I'm not sure where America stands with their rules and regulations, or even where homeopathy fits in with the regulations (if it does). But I think consumers should be protected from dodgy and misleading advertising.. in Australia, if it's a complementary medicine, you can be pretty sure you are. I know, I deal with it every day 8(
 
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Strawberry, You have said a mouthful. The trouble with the Natural Foods/Supplements industry in the U.S. is it is driven mostly by greed in the same way the medical profession is. It hasn't always been this way, and still isn't for a few. But I have watched this trend for almost 20 years now. I want out, and not because none of it works. Most consumers in the U. S. are lame. They (most) want instant health and will take no personal responsibility for it. Now we are selling all this structured water and shit. I try all the supps. Most of them DON'T WORK at all like the advertising says. Because the advertising is unrealistic, and a ploy to get the suckers to give up their cash. P.T. Barnum said, "theres a sucker born every minute". This applys to the average consumer of supplements. I am very sad to say this because I got into this field for some pretty sound reasons. The industry has corrupted itself for the almighty dollar. Not all but most! It sucks!:X
 
^ I did ramble a bit didn't I :D

I agree with you: the natural medicines industry is nothing like what I imagined. After 5 years in the marketing area, I'm firmly in the disillusioned camp too.

Although some of our supplements are good, and backed by research (our chelated iron, fish oil capsules and glucosamine for example) others are a crock of shit (our herbal sleep formula, cystitis formula... jesus, I'll take valium and Ural any day over those) and I feel terrible writing my flowery press releases for them. Mainstream media advertising is very heavily regulated here though. Consumers can't be really be "tricked" - at least not with unfounded or misleading statements - there is a very rigorous approval process which involves a 13-page application for each product, every advertisement. Companies are prosecuted all the time, just recently the TGA shut down one of the largest manufacturers of gel caps here in Australia, Pan Pharmaceuticals, for various breaches of the act.

Even so we are forced to push the envelope as much as we possibly can, in any way we can, because in the end it's all about money... it's huge business.:\ That's what I find distasteful.
 
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Well this all brings me back to my first post. I got into all of this because I wanted to understand health. I wasn't healthy in the ways I wanted to be and I found alot of useful things in natural foods, herbs, supps, ect. And then I got off track because I became invested, i.e. A TRUE BELIEVER.

It has taken me many years to understand my mystake and why I made it. The industry (IMO) has made the same mistake in a way. Of course money made it follow the path that brought the most money in. While beginning to ignore things people could do for themselves that took effort but were free. The industry really isn't at fault, it's the belief systems of humans that are. We seem to be lazy by nature and afraid of freedom. We don't want to be responsible. If we fail we want to blame it on something or someone outside of ourselves. That's why we elect "leaders" to fuck up our lives. We didn't do it; we were just following orders.

So now we have all this bullshit to deal with. But gee I'm off the track. It's about Homeopathy right. Just doesn't make sense to me. Tried it lots of times and on my dog. Never did a thing along with 98% of everything else I took. For me health is taking responsibility for things like; what kind of thoughfts are runing through my head. Loving ones or hateful, fearful , stressful ones. No pill can save you from your own mind. Your mind can heal just about anything and there is alot of evidence to back this. Homeopathy or a magic cyrstal, or vit Q can work a miracle if you back it with belief and desire. We are creators. Do we want to be responsible for that?

=D
 
flower remedies and hoemopathy do work for me and for some other people. i'm glad they do.
 
Yes, I talk to a lot of people who say that. My question is how do they work? I believe it is completely placebo. Which is good in a sense as it proves we are creators, as I suspect. The problem with placebo that is not a consciouse force but a belief in something outside oneself is that it usually doesn't last but is a symptomatic treatment.

I have for 20 years had customers come in and rave about the latest greatest supplement in current vogue. They claim it works completely. Two months later they are claiming the same thing about another in vogue product and claiming the same results. When asked about the other product the will tell you it's not that good, forgetting completely their claims of two months previeous.
 
placebo is not to be underestimated, sure.

and yet, homeopathy and the like is more that that. ever heard of energetic resonance? it may well work better in the more sensitive of us. and if you avoid mint and camohor, for they are strong and may cancel the effects.

fact is, if you use a homeopathic mercury remedy to mobilise mercury from body tissue in order to rid yourself of this toxic heavy metal, it WILL move. All your symptoms will be alleviated... trouble with that is, a few years later you wind down with MS or some such crippling disease, because the homeopathic remedy's energetic vibration will have caused a resonance in your body that caused the cell walls to open and then mercury will penetrate the very cells of your system . . .

sorry, slightly off-topic, but one example of how, clearly, homeoepathic remedy has shown to be everythign but bunk. Look up Dr Klinghardt and mercury remoival research and you should be able to find what I just wrote in more detail and formulated more professionally.
 
Ximot said:
fact is, if you use a homeopathic mercury remedy to mobilise mercury from body tissue in order to rid yourself of this toxic heavy metal, it WILL move. All your symptoms will be alleviated... trouble with that is, a few years later you wind down with MS or some such crippling disease, because the homeopathic remedy's energetic vibration will have caused a resonance in your body that caused the cell walls to open and then mercury will penetrate the very cells of your system . . .
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Proof?
 
Well I just glanced at this article. It wasn't about homeopathy and I only saw the sentence " Homeopathic mercury may" Not exactally a scientific study and I would never base any statement on homeopathy on this. Maybe I missed something here? Did I?

On the other hand many of the rest of the treatments for mercury tox, seemed sound, and they were the vast majority.

I would come up with something else if you want to convince anyone that homeopathy is nothing more than placebo.:)
 
well I am no longer trying to convince anyone. I know what I believe and I do trust my own intuition, it has served me well for some time. It just amazes me how some people make statements that they can't back up any better than I can mine and simply state them as undeniable facts . . . peace
 
This is the whole point of the thread! Your "intuition" is easily explained by the placebo effect.

I've made plenty of easily verifiable statements. No properly controlled, double-blind large scale trial of any homeopathic medicine has ever found a reproducible positive result.
 
Ximot said:
well I am no longer trying to convince anyone. I know what I believe and I do trust my own intuition, it has served me well for some time. It just amazes me how some people make statements that they can't back up any better than I can mine and simply state them as undeniable facts . . . peace
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Yes peace.:)
 
VelocideX said:
This is the whole point of the thread! Your "intuition" is easily explained by the placebo effect.

I've made plenty of easily verifiable statements. No properly controlled, double-blind large scale trial of any homeopathic medicine has ever found a reproducible positive result.
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Jesus, I have never seen someone post more like a broken record in my life. Placebo effect, placebo effect, placebo effect, placebo effect, placebo effect...
 
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