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History Of The Bible, Accuracy Etc.

If the decision you took to change careers ended badly - you were out of work for 3 years and ended up giving hand-jobs for crack in a back alley (for example), you would not have used that as an example.

My decision to change careers started in prayer. I asked God to guide me into a better job, doing something totally different, that I would enjoy doing and be able to make a living. 2 days later the opportunity came about and I acted on it.

how convenient. is your assertion, crudely put, that only good things happen to christian believers? if so, that's demonstrably incorrect.

Your assertion that "only good things happen to Christian believers" is not accurate. Unfortunate circumstances happen to everyone. The response to those circumstances is where most Christians and non-Christians differ.

In the graphic I posted above, you will see 2 distinct paths resulting from what we worship. We worship either God or idols (money, power, lust, drugs, etc). When hardships fall on us, turning to idols for solace eventually leads to despair, anguish, emptiness, and oppression. Often this creates a very real hell in our lives.

Getting back to your example of the person who has been out of work for 3 years who gives hand-jobs for crack in back alleys, this is a result of turning to idols and falling into that hell as I just illustrated.

A life that is truly devoted to the Christian faith will not find itself in the place you described, period. It is not God's will for any human being to participate in such activity.
 
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Turbo Monk said:
how convenient. is your assertion, crudely put, that only good things happen to christian believers? if so, that's demonstrably incorrect.

Your assertion that "only good things happen to Christian believers" is not accurate. Unfortunate circumstances happen to everyone. The response to those circumstances is where most Christians and non-Christians differ.

In the graphic I posted above, you will see 2 distinct paths resulting from what we worship. We worship either God or idols (money, power, lust, drugs, etc). When hardships fall on us, turning to idols for solace eventually leads to despair, anguish, emptiness, and oppression. Often this creates a very real hell in our lives.

Getting back to your example of the person who has been out of work for 3 years who gives hand-jobs for crack in back alleys, this is a result of turning to idols and falling into that hell as I just illustrated.

A life that is truly devoted to the Christian faith will not find itself in the place you described, period. It is not God's will for any human being to participate in such activity.
Click to expand...

Really? I could give a long long long list of people currently and throughout history who are devouted to Christian faith, and act out of those emotions quite rampantly. I could also give you a list of people currently of people who are not christian who do not succumb to drug abuse, power fetishes, and lust. Both examples i could list people that fit and don't fit in my very own life.

Anyone on this board will tell you, I'm not fanatical about drugs in the ways that most people on this board are. I've maintained long term healthy relationships in my life, and power/money/greed have very little to do with what i want out of life.. if you were to base my life from the opiniions i express. And i definately am not christian.

What about buddhist monks? Would you like me to compare their percentage of "sin" to catholic priests?
 
Why do we have to worship either "God or idols"? And why are all these idols that you listed "sins"?

Why does turning to God NOT lead to despair, anguish, emptiness, and oppression. Do you think that NOT turning to material things could help us in hard times?

It's unfortunate that you're labelling Christians and non-Christians with these extreme labels. Christians can endure hard times because of their faith in God. But non-Christians place their faith in material things, and thus suffer from this choice.

You're not showing an examples or evidence. You're merely stating your opinion and saying "that's how it is, folks." That's a pretty Christian thing to do, my friend.
 
^^^ I just don't understand why people can't realize things in reality aren't set on concrete (persay). Everything is in relation to something else, and not just one way, or another.

Goes to show you, if you sit down, and restrict yourself to one defined mindset, you end up getting shafted by the other end.

A non-materialistic spiritual person will also have issues of not having the resources, or money to provide them.

A materialistic person will lack the fullness of emotion, and suffer in inter-personal relationships.

You're not showing an examples or evidence. You're merely stating your opinion and saying "that's how it is, folks." That's a pretty Christian thing to do, my friend.
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This is something I've been trying to show them, without coming out like an asshole, and saying it. Unfortunately, some people are just too dense to catch on. I'll be nice, and not name anyone directly, but they might be aware of who they are, now... Hopefully they take it as constructive advice, and not judgementalism. I don't know, they just take it as me speaking my opinion, they'd be suprised to here my opinion.
 
It's unfortunate that you're labelling Christians and non-Christians with these extreme labels. Christians can endure hard times because of their faith in God. But non-Christians place their faith in material things, and thus suffer from this choice.

I made the comment: The response to those circumstances is where most Christians and non-Christians differ. I can see where you see that as labeling, for that I apologize.

The point I'm trying to make is every human being can choose what they worship; Christians should choose to worship God instead of idols, but that doesn't always mean they do. (as DD mentioned)

Do you think that NOT turning to material things could help us in hard times?

Try it and see.

You're not showing an examples or evidence.

The evidence will ultimately be shown in your own life.
 
Turbo is right...Untill any of you actually "try" having a relationship with God through Jesus for your ownselves you will never know for sure if it is real or not...When you seek God He WILL meet you and your life will be changed forever....
 
Originally posted by Turbo Monk
My decision to change careers started in prayer. I asked God to guide me into a better job, doing something totally different, that I would enjoy doing and be able to make a living. 2 days later the opportunity came about and I acted on it.


right. and it all turned out rosy. i get it.

i feel you're still not addressing the issue which is that using that as an example of how faith got you through is only possible because it's already happened.

i propose that if you had used faith, and it hadn't worked out, you would have kept it to yourself because 'that's not how faith works'. again, it's all just a bit convenient.

Originally posted by Turbo Monk
In the graphic I posted above, you will see 2 distinct paths resulting from what we worship. We worship either God or idols (money, power, lust, drugs, etc). When hardships fall on us, turning to idols for solace eventually leads to despair, anguish, emptiness, and oppression. Often this creates a very real hell in our lives.


and, just as often, it doesn't. the one does not necessarily follow from the other to the detriment of your argument.

Originally posted by Turbo Monk
A life that is truly devoted to the Christian faith will not find itself in the place you described, period.


because if they do they're not 'truly devoted'? how convenient...

Originally posted by Turbo Monk
It is not God's will for any human being to participate in such activity.


so why does it ever happen. you would think an omnipotent being would be prety capable of stopping it. but he doesn't. so clearly your last statement is demonstrably incorrect.

alasdair
 
Originally posted by SoHiAllTheTime
Turbo is right...Untill any of you actually "try" having a relationship with God through Jesus for your ownselves you will never know for sure if it is real or not...


what on earth makes you think i (i can only speak for myself) have not tried?

Originally posted by SoHiAllTheTime
When you seek God He WILL meet you and your life will be changed forever....


that could just as easily be described as learning self-love and self-confidence.

why are you so quick to blame humans for human failing but god for
human success?

alasdair
 
^Have you truely and objectively opened you heart to the Lord? I am asking...And, who is to say you waont end up "finding" Him someday? Just because it hasnt happened yet doesnt mean it wont happen ever. Right? Maybe this is all part of it! :) We all have different paths....


You are a younger man i am assuming (as in less than 40), so you have PLENTY of time to become a radical "Bible thumping" christian!!! lol ;)
 
alasdairm said:


so why does it ever happen. you would think an omnipotent being would be prety capable of stopping it. but he doesn't. so clearly your last statement is demonstrably incorrect.

alasdair
Click to expand...

God doesnt make robots. We all have free will.
 
SoHiAllTheTime said:
God doesnt make robots. We all have free will.
Click to expand...

Oh really? :) Jesus knows for a fact that one of his disciples will turn him in. How does he know the future? Well, if you know the future, doesn't that mean the future will not change? Doesn't that mean that a sequence of events will happen no matter what to lead to that future event? Where's the free will there?

Originally posted by alasdairm
"why are you so quick to blame humans for human failing but god for
human success?"
Click to expand...

Can someone please answer alasdair's question? Or will it be lost in this monstrous thread.

TurboMonk or anyone else: can you please define what "worship" means and how you're using it? I don't want to get into a discussion with a misunderstanding.

Trusty www.dictionary.com tells me that worship means either adoration or devotion. Is this how you're using it? I feel you're using the term "worship" very loosely.
 
Psychonaut777 said:
Freewill and forsight of future actions can coexist, they are not exclusive.
Click to expand...

Care to explain? Or are you going to pull a Christian and simply state things without any explanation.
 
No you can just think about it.

Just because Jesus said the Judas would betray him doesn't mean Judas didn't make that choice himself and somehow his actions were not of freewill. Its really rather simple.. God didn't force the man's hand, but He is capable of seeing the actions of the future..
 
can you please define what "worship" means and how you're using it? I don't want to get into a discussion with a misunderstanding.

I'm referring to worship as the act of giving our utmost affection and desire to something.

The object of that worship is either God or something else (idol).
 
sexyanon: hmm was just reading some old threads, Mahan Atma's explaination was interesting (even though his core beliefs are different), might help you understand our perspective more cleary.

"Mahan Atma writes:
Fair enough. Although there may also be something to the claims above that God may be far out of the scope of human understanding.

But we can always try. My own notion/experience of God is something closely related to Jung's collective unconscious. It is a level of consciousness that transcends the human individual, and it also has an intelligence of its own.
I disagree with the notion that God is all-powerful. I think that God works within certain constraints. For example, for there to be good, there must also be evil.

Here's a metaphor I use to understand the situation: God is something like a grand "playwrite" that exists outside of spacetime. The usual conceptual dichotomy of free will and determinism is red herring in this regard. As a playwrite, God has "scripted" the drama of reality -- but outside of time. God divides itself up into separate units of consciousness, and puts them into linear spacetime, where they behave as the actors in this drama.

Thus, there's a way in which the actors have a script to follow (determinism), but at the same time, that "script/destiny" exists outside of time. The actors also have "free will" in the sense that they are parts of God, writing the drama as it unfolds in spacetime.

Thus, God is both playwrite and actor, as well as the audience enjoying this drama. The actors -- as pieces of God -- are writing the script as they go through space time, even though God as a unified intelligence scripts the drama outside of time.

At one level (the deep collective unconscious), the intelligence is aware of all this, but at another level (the individual ego), it creates the illusion of separateness by forcing us to "forget" the divine source from which we've sprung.

I'm not sure this is making as much sense to you as it does in my head, but that's the basic idea."

from best of bluelight, "why do people believe in god?"
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?threadid=52739&r=104
 
Psychonaut777 said:
No you can just think about it.

Just because Jesus said the Judas would betray him doesn't mean Judas didn't make that choice himself and somehow his actions were not of freewill. Its really rather simple.. God didn't force the man's hand, but He is capable of seeing the actions of the future..
Click to expand...

Time isn't parallel, it's a paradox. Nothing in reality is truly linear, as you suggest.

Here's a site for those without GOD in their life.
 
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... Omniscience and free will seem to be incompatible with one another. If its true that someone is all knowing, it cannot be true that anyone has free will. This goes fore the seer himself or herself. For example, if God is all knowing, He knows his own future. But if so, then His future is determined, and even He is powerless to change it. So omniscience seems not only to rule out free will but also rule out omnipotence. No one-not even God-can be both omniscient and omnipotent. Some have argued that this proves that God as traditionally conceived does not exist. Others have argued, however, that properly understood, there is no conflict between these properties.

To be omnipotent is not to be able to do anything at all, but to be able to do anything that it's possible to do. As the great catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas observed, "Whatever implies contradiction does not come within the scope of divine omnipotence because it cannot have the aspect of possibility. Hence it is better to say such things cannot be done, than that God cannot do them." For example, God cannot make a round square because such a thing is logically impossible. Nothing can be both round and not round at the same time. But that does not impugn His omnipotence because an omnipotent being can only be expected to do what is logically possible.

Similar considerations apply to the notion of omniscience. An omniscient being is not one who knows everything, but one who knows everything that it's logically possible to know. So if it's logically impossible to know the future, than omniscience may not be incompatible with either omnipotence or free will.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=1850322#post1850322


 
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