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Benzos High Dose Etizolam - Help Needed

Prescottdave, good info. Thanks for it. I'll look into the SHMHSA site for resources. Unfortunately, I live in a state known for the worst help and lack of resources not just for addiction but for the elderly, homeless, poor, handicapped, etc. It's ranked 49th out of 50 states regarding this. My neighboring state is one of the top so maybe I can find some help there and I live right on the border.

I'd love to do what you did with the outpatient treatment after the quick medically supervised taper. That'd be ideal for me.

Also, congrats on over 3 months!
tacodude had the same idea of outpatient so thanks to him too for that.
 
This post is filled with misinformation. Ativan is a rather short acting medication. Clonazepam has a 25 or so hour halflife but it does not have any active motabolites that I know of which stay in your system.

Diazepam and Librium are known as long acting benzodiazepines. Studies done by the NIH and the Mayo Clinic have identified several long acting metabolites of diazepam and Librium which stay in your system for up to thirty days. These motabolites include oxazapam and nordiazepam. This is why you can flag a 12 panel test 20 days after getting off diazepam and upon GC-MS anylisis oxazapam will be the first to show up.

Desmethlydiazepam is another active metabolite that has a halflife of 30-200 hours. For sources on this I would reference studies done by the Mayo Clinic but the halife of all the active motabolites are right up on Wikipedia with citations.

Edit: I missed your previous post regarding misinformation. It's always been my understanding that diazepam is the ideal drug doctors use to taper people from benozs because of it's long half life. Also, lorazepam is longer acting than say, alprazolam but not close to diazepam. That's why I'm going to use diclazepam. Also, I thought librium was only used for alcohol detox. You learn something new every day.
 
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This post is filled with misinformation. Ativan is a rather short acting medication. Clonazepam has a 25 or so hour halflife but it does not have any active motabolites that I know of which stay in your system.

Diazepam and Librium are known as long acting benzodiazepines. Studies done by the NIH and the Mayo Clinic have identified several long acting metabolites of diazepam and Librium which stay in your system for up to thirty days. These motabolites include oxazapam and nordiazepam. This is why you can flag a 12 panel test 20 days after getting off diazepam and upon GC-MS anylisis oxazapam will be the first to show up.

Desmethlydiazepam is another active metabolite that has a halflife of 30-200 hours. For sources on this I would reference studies done by the Mayo Clinic but the halife of all the active motabolites are right up on Wikipedia with citations.


e and duration of action ARE NOT THE SAME THING. I am tired of saying that, when 20 or 15 minutes of research(or better yet, taking the damn medication) would prove this.

Diazepam is a fast acting benzodiazepine, like alrprazolam, though with a (typically) short duration. 2-5hrs is listed by either the manufacturer or AMA.(onset <30min, peak 1-2hrs)

It is rapidly absorbed and highly lipophillic, so it almost immediately penetrates the CNS, making it effective from for emergency situations(though even for that, they now generally preferLorazepam)

Have you ever taken Nordazepam?(desmethlydiazepam, or it’s pro-drug, Tranxene, which is quickly and almost completely converted in the stomach, before reaching small intestine)

Well, Lorne has, guess what? 200hours is a joke, and most studios put it less than that.

It is an intermediate acting benzodiazepine with a decent duration, that is longer than diszepam itself, though not as long as clonazepam, it’s hard to say cause dose dependent, though 4-8hrs later(probably up to12 with larger doses) you need a redone, similar to lorazepam.

Both clonazepam and lorazepam have very poor solubility, in comparison l to other benzos, and so they penetrate the CNS gradually, even via intravenous injection.

And, it isn’t rapidly and extensively redistributed to other body tissues, where it has no pharmacological effects, yet can delay metabolism/elimination like Valium(which is also highly protein bound)

Remember, if a drug crosses the BBB rapidly, it will quickly exit, and typically is either metabolized, or redistributed like diazepam/Valium. Clonazepam has the same t1/2 as diazepam, (Both average 30-40 hours, basically) however it has a delayed onset and extended duration.

This is because it gradually enters the CNS, and then, in turn, slowly exits, allowing it more time to activate more receptors.

Lorazepam is similar, though clonazepam tends to last longer with chronic administration, especially

You bring up Wikipedia? Check out Lorazepam’s page, it explains in detail how lorazepam lasts longer than diazepam, despite it’s T1/2.

Also, both Diazepam and Nordazepam are typically given 3-4 times per day, occasionally 5.

Didn’ Mean to seem rude, just verify you’re information before you call mine wrong; Know what I am talking about

Think about IV burpenorphine; it’s T1/2 is barely as long as oxycodone, yet (especially larger doses) last MUCH longer(although Bupe also has a longer receptor half-life, in addition to much lower water solubility, and lower lipid solubility, to some extent)
 
This post is filled with misinformation. Ativan is a rather short acting medication. Clonazepam has a 25 or so hour halflife but it does not have any active motabolites that I know of which stay in your system.

Diazepam and Librium are known as long acting benzodiazepines. Studies done by the NIH and the Mayo Clinic have identified several long acting metabolites of diazepam and Librium which stay in your system for up to thirty days. These motabolites include oxazapam and nordiazepam. This is why you can flag a 12 panel test 20 days after getting off diazepam and upon GC-MS anylisis oxazapam will be the first to show up.

Desmethlydiazepam is another active metabolite that has a halflife of 30-200 hours. For sources on this I would reference studies done by the Mayo Clinic but the halife of all the active motabolites are right up on Wikipedia with citations.
Edit: I missed your previous post regarding misinformation. It's always been my understanding that diazepam is the ideal drug doctors use to taper people from benozs because of it's long half life. Also, lorazepam is longer acting than say, alprazolam but not close to diazepam. That's why I'm going to use diclazepam. Also, I thought librium was only used for alcohol detox. You learn something new every day.

They now lean towards Tranxene, and, for high benzo tolerance, Clonazepam, although it is hit and miss; most seem to love or loathe it.

Nothing in my post was inaccurate, check yourself, though MAY post a pair of references or something.

Information leaflets list duration, more important is what they do in practice. Valium(and Nordazepam) are given 4 times per day; they would say you were crazy if you wanted clonazepam 4x per day(or even Ativan for that matter) unless you’ve been on A LONG TIME, have legitimate issues/high tolerance, and a cool doc
(Although, they prescribe up to 12 2mg tablets per day, and insurance sometimes covers it!
 
"BZD activity is terminated by redistribution similar to that of the lipid-soluble barbiturates. Following intramuscular injection, absorption of diazepam or chlordiazepoxide is slow and erratic, whereas absorption of intramuscular administration of lorazepam or midazolam appears to be rapid and complete. Lorazepam is well absorbed after sublingual administration, reaching peak levels in 60 minutes."

From The National Institutes of Health, "
Lorazepam (Figure 4) is another high-potency BZD that displays short-acting characteristics." Studies have routinely shown that, "Diazepam (Figure 6) is a long-acting, medium-potency BZD that is used as an anticonvulsant and for anxiolysis, sedation, and myorelaxation."

In terms of harm reduction if you told someone who was coming off a large dose clonazolam dependency that they could take ativan one time each day because it was a long half life BZD you would be giving out misinformation that in turn could harm someone. Here is a study that backs up what I am saying.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3684331/

Here is another great thread from BL that has categorized most of the known benzos and listed the corresponding half life. They use benzo.org.uk as a source. As a side note it is bioavalibility not solubility that you are referring to in terms of Clonazepam. Clonazepam has a oral BA around 90%.

Straight from wikipedia for diazepam "Biological half-life: 20–100 hours (36–200 hours for main active metabolite"
Again from Wikipedia for lorazepam "10–20 hours"

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/99918-Benzodiazepine-Equivalency-Half-Life-Dose-Chart
 
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Well either way clonazepam has absolutely no effect on me. I wish it did because I would prefer that. I have already ordered diclazepam which will arrive tomorrow so that is what I'll be using to taper.
I appreciate the info and advice from you all. I'll try to come back periodically and give updates if it will be of any use to anyone.
 
Yes it would.


NEVER SAID TO TAKE ONE DOSE OF ATIVAN PER DAY, that is crazy.

And Clonazepam(and lorazepam) have a low solubility, which leads to an extended duration though with delayed onset.
( Diazepam and alrazolam penetrate More rapidly(and faster abortion/tmax) so they give a rapid onset, with a low-intermediate duration of action)

Of course Clonazepam last longer, and has that 30-40hr T1/2, average.

It why Ativan injections do not take effect right, typically taking 10-15 minutes, intravenously; as opposed to diazepam, which takes effect almost immediately

Everything did can be easily verified;

If someone could give you like ~100mg per day, and then taper you half, that would be effective

Diclazepam hasn't had the best reviews;

Flualprazolam could be best RC for anxiety, although Clonazolam and others are simply too strong in this situation

Yeah, check in, it's been a rough time, though willl try verify my information if someone else doesn't

A combo might end up being best, though need self control

Wish you luck, man, feel for you more than you
 
"Valium duration of action. The half-life of Valium is 20 hours, sometimes longer. It reaches peak levels in the blood just 1-1.5 hours after being taken. Despite taking several days to leave the body, the effects wear off within 4-6 hours, so it does need to be taken throughout the day.Jun 7, 2012"

There is plenty of detailed literature though do not feel like digging it up

Update when can, though want this information to be spread, and duration of action should be added to t1/2, since they differ, and Tmax would be useful, and updated figures

(Oxy BA%, plugging pharmacodynamics( more akin to sublingual, though rapidly absorbed with proper medications which are soluble)

Anyway, happy holidays-

Lorne

And wish me luck, it could be a rough few days, may need advice myself

Thank You
 
Diazepam is NOT a long acting benzodiazepine...

10mg Alprazolam = 20-30mg Etizolam,
It’s bad, though not as severe as you think (5-10mg clonazolam per day, that is... well you get it)

You need medical help, though if you could cut your dose in half first it wpould help.

Clonazepam and, to a lesser extent Lorazepam (Ativan) last longer, less redosing; Etiz wears off pretty fast.

Sure they gave good advice, good luck, though IME, Valium is useless until you get your tolerance way faster down...
When life threatening seizures are a risk practitioners commonly use a benzo with a long half life. This is for the safety of the patient and an increased likelihood in long term abstinence from benzodiazepines. This is a journal article from Oxford Academic.

"Benzodiazepines with a
half-life of more than 24 hours include chlordiazepoxide, diazepam, clobazam, clonazepam, chlorazepinic acid, ketazolam, medazepam, nordazepam, and prazepam. Benzodiazepines with a half-life of less than 24 hours include alprazolam, bromazepam, brotizolam, flunitrazepam, loprazolam, lorazepam, lormetazepam, midazolam, nitrazepam, oxazepam, and temazepam"
https://academic.oup.com/fampra/article/28/3/253/484007
 
"Valium duration of action. The half-life of Valium is 20 hours, sometimes longer. It reaches peak levels in the blood just 1-1.5 hours after being taken. Despite taking several days to leave the body, the effects wear off within 4-6 hours, so it does need to be taken throughout the day.Jun 7, 2012"

There is plenty of detailed literature though do not feel like digging it up

Update when can, though want this information to be spread, and duration of action should be added to t1/2, since they differ, and Tmax would be useful, and updated figures

(Oxy BA%, plugging pharmacodynamics( more akin to sublingual, though rapidly absorbed with proper medications which are soluble)

Anyway, happy holidays-

Lorne

And wish me luck, it could be a rough few days, may need advice myself

Thank You

If you do ever happen to find any actual peer reviewed literature showing that diazepam is not a long acting benzo let me know. Maybe use a more academic citation instead of just citing the date june 7 2012. Fortunately I did dig up what that date was from which is an addiction blog which is far from a dependable source but I guess when you are arguing that Diazepam is not a long acting benzo that is the only source that backs up what you are saying. I kid i kid.
 
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Just wanted to point out that with benzos, it's usually worth it to diminish the dose very gradually.

In my country, the official guidance for people wanting to stop taking benzos for sleep is like this:
2 tablets before sleep for 2 weeks
1 tablet and a half one day and 2 tablets the other day for two weeks
1 tablet and a half for two weeks
1 tablet one day and 1 tablet and a half the other day for two weeks
etc.

It's crazy slow, and I think it's safe to go about something like this much faster but in general, avoid rushing this.
 
A combo might end up being best, though need self control
Wish you luck, man, feel for you more than you

Anyway, happy holidays-

Lorne

And wish me luck, it could be a rough few days, may need advice myself

Thank You
Thanks Lorne. Happy holidays to you also. I don't know what you're going through but I wish you luck with it too.
 
26astr00, thanks for your advice.

I've successfully detoxed from a very large amount of clonazoLAM in the past. I was also tapering off of Suboxone at the same time. It was hell and I wanted to die. Fortunately, 95% of my work is from home, though I could hardly function even for that. I laid in bed for a couple of months and lost about 1/4 of my weight due to muscle atrophy. It's best to exercise but I just couldn't move. I've never been fat, this was 40 pounds of muscle mass I lost and I'm still trying to gain it back.

The general rule for detoxing from benzos (which I think comes from the Ashton Manual) is to drop 5% - 10% every 2 to 4 weeks, so it can take a long time for someone on high doses. There are different schedules people use to taper, some more aggressive, but the general rule is to take it slow like you said.
Going too fast can be unnecessarily dangerous and uncomfortable/painful. I'm also taking supplements to aid the withdrawal as well as cutting out caffeine.

I've already started and I'm currently at 10mg of diclazepam (roughly 100mg of diazepam) once a day and will go with 10% reductions every 2 weeks until I get closer to the end when I'll take it slower.
 
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