High-dose dissociation

[Flickering]

In my two experiences with high-dose magic mushrooms, I've found the derealisation makes it very unpleasant, there's an overwhelming sense of everything I think of - memories, friends, work, anything outside the trip - being surreal and nonsensical. It almost feels like I've lost my mind. Ego loss is pretty common when you start pushing the envelope, and I wonder if, with a little more experience, I'd be able to ride it and make something positive out of it.

How do you find the dissociation that comes with high doses of different substances?

I've only taken acid and mescaline at what I consider medium doses. With mescaline it was quite manageable, there was just a sense that everything was a TV show and it wasn't really happening to me. With acid, the 'ego loss' comes and goes in about a minute and it's hard to describe, it's kind of like my thoughts are broken, almost as if wait where did that go _Poi iI no hang on {op)IP HaveIi lost my mind? bracket NOISE sound90usensation IJfn8(*v8?fs HE87Y hang on I'm back to normal again, whoa that was weird.

So I'm wondering if that's more or less typical, since I'm planning to take mescaline at a quite high dose and follow it with some DMT for the first time in a couple of weeks. What's your experience?

 

[donvliet]

pushing the envelope can be interesting, but finding your sweet-spot dose for a substance is actually more useful.

 

[donvliet]

almost as if wait where did that go _Poi iI no hang on {op)IP HaveIi lost my mind? bracket NOISE sound90usensation IJfn8(*v8?fs HE87Y hang on I'm back to normal again, whoa that was weird.

"there's something different about the wiring"

 

[Help?!?!]

You just have to always properly remind yourself your properly fucked on a psychedelic chemical and your senses are totally distorted. I've never had this problem ever, though it seems common. I mean for a moment or so on the real wild ones i'll work myself into a tizzy for a second about something but then once again I just sit down slowly and remind myself i'm simply tripping balls and its most likely utter bullshit. I always then just tether myself back to reality slowly if that isn't working. Like, "Life couldn't possibly be a TV show because there would be no where to hide the cameras and there wouldn't be much of a point.", to me thats totally logical and my psychedelically enthused mind my want to scream back "But what if theres aliens with blah blah" but its just not very logical besides the fact your not going to figure it out at that moment anyways so the purpose of frustrating yourself into the ground while you should be enjoying yourself is a bit.....pointless...eh? I just never understand why people bother with these thoughts, discover yourself rather than trying to discover all these cosmic illusions/etc/etc.

 

[WOAHAAHOAH]

You just have to always properly remind yourself your properly fucked on a psychedelic chemical and your senses are totally distorted. I've never had this problem ever, though it seems common. I mean for a moment or so on the real wild ones i'll work myself into a tizzy for a second about something but then once again I just sit down slowly and remind myself i'm simply tripping balls and its most likely utter bullshit. I always then just tether myself back to reality slowly if that isn't working. Like, "Life couldn't possibly be a TV show because there would be no where to hide the cameras and there wouldn't be much of a point.", to me thats totally logical and my psychedelically enthused mind my want to scream back "But what if theres aliens with blah blah" but its just not very logical besides the fact your not going to figure it out at that moment anyways so the purpose of frustrating yourself into the ground while you should be enjoying yourself is a bit.....pointless...eh? I just never understand why people bother with these thoughts, discover yourself rather than trying to discover all these cosmic illusions/etc/etc.

Perhaps the fact that you have not experienced this before is why you don't see how this can happen. The same thing happened to a friend of mine who claimed that he would never have a bad trip because he didn't consider it possible. He took a hefty shroom dose and completely lost his mind lol.

The thing is, when most people go into that deep, dark, oblivion, they forget everything... sometimes even the fact that they are on a drug AT ALL. I've seen this happen to several people. They completely forget their normal lives or the fact that they're tripping and believe they are going to be/have always been in this state forever.

It's not very easy to get yourself out of. In fact, ESPECIALLY on shrooms IME, it's really hard. It's not like when people intentionally try to put themselves in a bad place. In fact, bad thoughts on psychedelics like mushrooms are kind of like an infection. They start out as a small, passing thought that can manifest your mindspace and turn your mystical/magical trip into an oblivion of nightmare and hell.

One thing I've learned from personal experience is that it's a lot easier to pull yourself out when you first start slipping in. Once you've passed the threshold of no return, you're in for a much more difficult time.

I personally agree with donvliet. When you find your perfect spot, it can be much more enlightening and spectacular than if you try to push it with a dose that might be too high to trip comfortably. Remember that the quality of your trip is going to depend on the way you interpret it. If you take too high of a dose, you're going to interpret the trip as being "WAYYYYY TOOOO MUCHHHHH" and that will throw you into a bad place. Just go with the amount you feel perfectly fine with. (It may take a bit of trial and error, but it's worth it. )

EDIT: Also wanted to add that trying to keep a logical mindset will sometimes throw you into a bad trip. Think about it.

 

[Flickering]

"there's something different about the wiring"

You reckon? I also experience something like physical pain when I take 2 hits or more of LSD. I'm afraid to see what happens if I take it further. Maybe I shouldn't - although, apart from the pain / severe physical discomfort, that's one substance I can handle quite well, and would be interested to see where it takes me at higher doses.

I agree it's better to find your sweet spot.

The thing is, when most people go into that deep, dark, oblivion, they forget everything... sometimes even the fact that they are on a drug AT ALL. I've seen this happen to several people. They completely forget their normal lives or the fact that they're tripping and believe they are going to be/have always been in this state forever.

Yeah exactly, I had this happen the first time I was on shrooms. Very strong trip, not appropriate for my third hallucinogenic (first psychedelic) experience ever. However, it only got bad per se when my ego started to resurface just a tiny bit, and I realised how weird and fucked my headspace was, and I freaked right the hell out.

Something similar happened last time, but it wasn't as strong, and I was able to control it a bit better because I've had a dozen or so other experiences since then.

A couple of other times, things have simply been so mentally awful that even though you're aware you're tripping, it just doesn't help much. My reaction to third-plateau DXM, for example... I'm sure if everyone experienced what I did at that level, people would use Robitussin only when they have a dry cough.

 

[Help?!?!]

Perhaps the fact that you have not experienced this before is why you don't see how this can happen.

You are confused friend. I did not state it doesn't occur I even posted about my little "tizzys" with those thoughts but they just don't plague me like they have others. I'm not one to say it can't happen to me ever but at this point it'd be quite surprising most known posters know my penchant for insanity and insane dosing of multiple chemicals. I've also forgotten I took a drug before, once again not to the same degree as most others mine was more like "Jesus fuck why in the fuck is XXXX going down?!?" then suddenly after some hard thoughts I came to the conclusion drugs had been taken. Its either that or your having a medical emergency(why else would you be excessively confused or having other such serious symptoms out of the blue?) but I rarely if ever pay attention to "bodily" issues on psychedelics. What I think you and most others forget is that psychedelics have a literal blaring/overwhelming way of distorting all of your senses and making it seem to be as if its reality. To me this is simply broken by the knowledge that i've taken a drug and it will eventually end, or i'll go search out sedatives or logical thinking or whatever. Like stated to me its just purposeless and fairly wasteful in my mind to spend time bothering with these sorts of things.

I've watched a man use an entire box of Kleenex while frantically yelling about a nose bleed, something that happened very frequently to him and was not a problem. He swore he saw blood on the tissue for the longest time and was freaking out for a time over it. For me, logic is more valuable than gold. It calms me even if the logic isn't exactly what I wanted because it is....logic, which means it works, its grounded, its real. Its not a false sense of "Ahh shit reality was just some TV show this whole time!" or "So this was how life always was....yet i'm simply awakening now at this moment!", the list of those sorts of thoughts goes on and on. It might be hard to understand but I would rather be clinging to a damaged vessel in treacherous waters than without one at all...eh? I believe I even used a chain of logic on him to break his "nose bleed" loop because at the end of the whole is it, or isn't it discussion had been dragged on long enough I just said "Look man i've seen you get like 15 different nose bleeds and some last for like 10 or so minutes, there wasn't even a bleed this time, so what is there to even worry about? If your nose is bleeding...oh well! Happens all the time does it not?" and he couldn't disagree that it didn't. To me its just so odd, i've had these thoughts and such, and of course for a second it was worrying but then I would just think "You took a chemical and your tripping, its not possible to trip forever....". For me thats all it takes because well, its the truth. Some people just aren't soothed by logic or its groundings, but me, I very much enjoy it because logic is unbreakable. It is truth. If there ever was a chemical to throw me full down the well it would probably be 4-HO-DMT but I doubt i'd ever travel past 20mgs of it as I already know we don't play well together.