Hi all, I am new here and look forward to contributing and reading the contributions of others. I have always been a very shy person and this led, early in my life, to loneliness and then depression. I have been tried on virtually every antidepressant without much success and am currently taking tranylcypromine (Parnate, a MAOI). I also just finished a course of rTMS for treatment-resistant depression and developed overstimulation and anxiety, which was corrected by changing the way the treatment was administered. Sadly I don't think rTMS has resolved my depression however. I am interested in recreational and therapeutic substances and have tried quite a few, but by no means all. I also have an interest in psychopharmacology and have read about neurotransmitters, receptors, and the receptor affinities of a wide variety of substances. Soon after developing loneliness and depression I started using alcohol at night to cope and this became a serious problem. I began by drinking 5-6 standard drinks each night when I was in my early 20's but this soon increased, and in the end I was drinking 21 drinks a night and using benzodiazepines the next day to ward off alcohol withdrawals until it was time to drink again. I finally had a break of 19 months from alcohol in 2010, after doing a home detox under the care of an addiction specialist. I began to use a small amount of cannabis at night in place of the alcohol, and this seemed to work. I still do this most nights, but do drink every third night, although not 21 drinks any more. I have experimented with a wide variety of therapeutic drugs and a few recreational ones, and am always interested in reading new information. I look forward to being a member of this community.
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NMI Moderators: M!$TER-ED
Hi everyone, I look forward to being a member
- Thread starter Troppo
- Start date
Electrum1
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
- Messages
- 33,122
Hey, welcome to BL. I'd suggest giving up the alcohol right now while you're at a point where it isn't dangerous to do so. Sounds like you had a problem with it and recovered, so it's definitely not worth the risk of that problem developing again. Take the easy offramp while it's available, and that will eliminate any potential problems with that, so you can focus on other things
Hey welcome to Bluelight @Troppo
How is the weed and alcohol regiment treating you? Sounds like a step down from past abuses which is always good to hear.
Looking forward to your contributions as well.
Edit - just read your other thread. The only thing that comes to mind is an over the counter opioid, but that is a beast in itself as well. Finding quick euphoria is really difficult to do without drugs, honestly. I wonder what worked in those 19 months, and if there was anything even just a minor part of that chunk of time that you did find enjoyment out of?Last edited:
Alcohol, on paper, seems to have little health benefits if any. I remember the news would say how a couple glasses of wine or something was good, I forget the numbers and frequency. But recently I saw them say "oh actually no it's not sorry".
I find that shit so wild.
Hi Welcome two Bluelight. I also have trouble sleeping at night and as far as TMS goes the second time I had done was a total waste of time.
Where are you from...US?
It's easy to form habits when in the beginning of using they help in some way. I never got into drinking and I'm glad I didn't considering the harm caused by alcohol addiction.
When you look at things like alcohol and at one time tobacco which are proven to be harmful, yet accepted and even promoted in society, you know money is involved.
Are you employed? I'm retired, a product of the 1970s.
BTW I see from your profile picture, if that is you, you're from Australia?
Interesting.
I'm glad you're here and I look forward to reading your posts.Thanks for the replies folks. Yes I'm from Australia. Sadly I'm not employed due to my depression and anxiety, as well as autism and ADHD, but I do care for my mother. I've been taking it fairly easy with the alcohol lately, only drinking every third night and using a small amount of weed the other two nights. I certainly don't miss the 21 drinks I was having every night years ago, and would never want to go back to that. It was utterly miserable.
My current alcohol and weed regimen is working quite well. The weed gives me something to look forward to at night when I'm not having a drink.
Weed was mainly what worked for me during those 19 months off alcohol, as well as a non- religious belief in some sort of higher power (I think of it as a God behind all things). I tried AA but it just wasn't for me. I think I naturally enjoyed life while off alcohol and I was stupid to return to it. I tried all 3 medications for alcoholism (Campral, naltrexone, Antabuse) but they did nothing (Antabuse would have made me sick if I'd drank on it of course).
Robi
Bluelighter
lost weekend
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2023
- Messages
- 1,643
It's good you've cut down on your alcohol, I'm currently seeking help really for the first time for my alcohol usage at my local NHS drop in clinic .
Before I hit my 40s I was able to brush off the hangovers but the past few years it's caught up with a vegence
Like your self, certainly at the moment I have severe depression but just managing to fly by daily by the skin of my teeth
I've never had a period of more than 1 day of abstinence I can remember in the last 20 years
I'm nowhere near the units of daily alcohol that would require medical intervention but psychologically its taken its toll.
My son has mild autism although he is 18 now so I can certinaly relate with yourself if only from an outside perspective
It sounds like you have a good / clever / well researched strategy moving forward and you will find lots of wisdom from members on this forum .
Welcome ,was interesting reading your post
Hi and thanks for your welcome.It's good you've cut down on your alcohol, I'm currently seeking help really for the first time for my alcohol usage at my local NHS drop in clinic .
Before I hit my 40s I was able to brush off the hangovers but the past few years it's caught up with a vegence
Like your self, certainly at the moment I have severe depression but just managing to fly by daily by the skin of my teeth
I've never had a period of more than 1 day of abstinence I can remember in the last 20 years
I'm nowhere near the units of daily alcohol that would require medical intervention but psychologically its taken its toll.
My son has mild autism although he is 18 now so I can certinaly relate with yourself if only from an outside perspective
It sounds like you have a good / clever / well researched strategy moving forward and you will find lots of wisdom from members on this forum .
Welcome ,was interesting reading your post
I quit alcohol at the age of 42 and went back onto it at 44, but as I said, at a much reduced amount. There's simply no way I could tolerate 21 drinks every night now, and I don't know how I did it back then. My stomach would not take that amount now, for one thing, and my brain would be utterly fogged out.
I tried all the antidepressants for my depression. I tried the SSRIs fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, sertraline, paroxetine, citalopram, and escitalopram. With some SSRIs I experienced a lot of initial anxiety, irritability, and insomnia, and that caused me to quit them. I managed to stay on escitalopram but it didn't help. I tried the SNRI venlafaxine and it helped a lot at the start but then seemed to do nothing. I tried the TCAs amitriptyline, desipramine, imipramine, dothiepin, and nortriptyline. Dothiepin and amitriptyline did absolutely nothing to help, I had trouble tolerating desipramine and imipramine (for similar reasons to SSRIs), and I was allergic to nortriptyline, which was a shame as it seemed to help quite a lot to begin with, even though antidepressants are not supposed to help at all until 2-8 weeks on them. I tried the reversible MAOI moclobemide, which is available here in Australia, and the melatonergic antidepressant agomelatine, also available here, but neither helped. I found I was unable to tolerate mirtazapine and mianserin due to restless legs syndrome, so I don't know how I would have gone with them. The NDRI bupropion is only available here as Zyban, a quit-smoking application, and as such you only get a couple of boxes of it. Finally I tried the MAOI tranylcypromine (Parnate) and it did help for a while, but I became irritable and agitated on it and had to quit once, and am now in the process of getting off it a second time (a hard drug to get off due to withdrawals). I have also tried trazodone but only for sleep at a small dose of 100 mg. I tried nefazodone (Serzone) when it was still available and it helped at the start but not in the long run. I tried the new antidepressant vortioxetine but was allergic to it too. There are a couple I haven't tried but I doubt they would help any more than the ones I have tried. I have always wondered about the TCA clomipramine but it is such a powerful serotonin drug that I fear its side effects and emotional blunting. I also tried lithium but I think it dulls my emotions, although it does reduce suicidal thoughts. I tried CBT but found it totally useless, and the same for behavioural activation (BA). I think psychodynamic therapy would help me a lot but it takes so long and would cost thousands of dollars. I have also had numerous counsellors over the years and it has been good to have someone to talk to but it hasn't really helped my depression. I have to say that I am reappraising the rTMS treatment I had, as my mood does seem to have improved and I seem to have more energy and enthusiasm for things now that the treatment has finished. It took a few days to a week after treatment to notice these benefits. I have never tried ECT. Good luck in finding something that can ease your depression - I still have to try ketamine, esketamine nasal spray, and psilocybin therapy and I think these sound a lot more promising that all of the useless antidepressants the pharmaceutical industry has stuck us with over the past 30 years. These have recently been introduced to Australia.
Do you mind me asking what level your drinking is at? Even if it is "only" 10-12 units a day you could require benzodiazepine-assisted detoxification. I found benzo detox to be easy and pleasant, and a welcome relief of withdrawals. I have developed my own diazepam detox method, although I don't need it anymore. I found that, for me, 5 mg of diazepam was equivalent to 1 standard drink/unit on the first day during detox, although doctors would probably say that you should use less. Using 5 mg per standard drink on the first day resulted in a detox that was comfortable while not being over-sedated. On Days 2-5 I halved the diazepam dose each day until I was down to zero. As an example, if detoxing from 12 standard drinks per day I would take 60 mg diazepam on Day 1, 30 mg on Day 2, 15 mg on Day 3, 7.5 mg on Day 4, and 2.5-5 mg on Day 5, with zero on Day 6. I found that only the 5 mg tablets were any good for the first phase of detox, as you simply need far too many 2 mg tablets. In fact I have found the 2 mg tablets to be useless for anxiety too, unless I take 3-5 tablets at a time.
Shinji Ikari
Bluelighter
I stopped drinking completely for about 3 years and becoming a massive stoner was a big part of that transition.
I still drink and weed now but nowhere near as much as either compared to before that first dry spell.
Welcome to bl.
TheUltimateFixx
Bluelighter
Have you ever considered ECT -?
It gets a bad rep because in the past often totally clapped-out machines were used, or not re-calibrated individually for each patient, which could result in serious brain damage.
Treatment standards have much improved and it's considered the last resort for treatment-resistant depression. Many people have remarkable results with it, often even requiring only a single session to experience improvement almost immediately.
Good on you for getting off alcohol for 3 years. Being a stoner would be far less harmful to you - nobody has ever died from weed, millions have died from alcohol. I drink about 10-12 standard drinks every 3 nights now and sometimes use some 2m2b (2-methyl-2-butanol) instead of the alcohol. Believe it or not I only smoke 1/2 cone these days, not because I am against pot but because I get a lot of anxiety from larger amounts, although I once smoked a LOT more with friends (while taking bupropion) and didn't get any of the anxiety. Maybe a small amount for me causes more anxiety than large amounts??? Thanks for the welcome.
Yes I've thought about ECT for a long time. I haven't had the chance to try it though because most of my doctors have not wanted me to try it, although one psychiatrist was in favour of it. One turn-off for me is that where I live you have to become an inpatient in the local mental institution for the first ECT session, and you have to be in there for days for observation. Maybe there are clinics that use it not too far from where I live though, that don't require you to become an inpatient, I will have to look into that. I didn't know a single session was enough for a positive result, I thought you had to have multiple sessions, like rTMS. I am starting to see some benefit from the rTMS now that I have finished the course - more mental energy and enthusiasm for things. I will see how I go over the next few weeks. If the results don't last, I will definitely look into ECT and ask my GP to refer me for it. I may even agree to be a mental inpatient if that's what it takes.
You're not being rude, it is a good suggestion.
I have tried a variety of talking therapies but none have helped me. I first tried CBT a few times but didn't find it helpful. I had been hoping for a more personal and in-depth discussion of my problems, including my past, but CBT didn't offer this. I tried behavioural activation (BA) but likewise didn't benefit. I was hoping it would help my anhedonia and I gave the activities a decent try, but having anhedonia prevents you from enjoying things that are normally enjoyable and BA didn't fix this. I have also tried counselling for my addiction but again they didn't go into my past as I was hoping.
I have read about pscyhodynamic therapy and would like to try it but it would be a very lengthy therapy and hence very expensive. I am currently unemployed due to my depression and anxiety and the therapy isn't subsidised (at least I think it isn't) here in Australia.
What type of therapy did you find helpful?
I second the ECT thing. It's something to look into. Back when i did it in about 2018, some people, on YouTube or something, said there were memory issues, but i didn't experience any despite going through it about 6 or 7 times. I'd wake up a couple hours earlier than everyone in the unit with another guy, we'd go down and get zapped, then we'd eat donuts and drink coffee waiting for each other.
Hearing that treatment standards improved is good, i didn't know that. It sounds kind of experimental like the lobotomy to me, but no it's been almost ten years and i don't have any new cognitive issues that i'm aware of.
For inpatient, they basically try to match your personality with a unit. Meaning if you have no history of violence, you'll probably be in a unit with mostly docile people.
TheUltimateFixx
Bluelighter
The reason many clinics require you to stay in for observation is to monitor any negative side-effects where these can immediately be helped if they occur. For instance in the so-called post-tictalic state (meaning after the induced seizure) you may be restless, disorientated, confused and agitated. You can also suffer problems with your blood pressure or heart rhythm etc.
I didn't mean to give you the impression that this can be a 'one-and-done' treatment. It definitely isn't. You will require a course of several administrations if you want the effects to last, which typically range from 6 - 12 and average out at 8 - 10, depending on how promptly you respond to the initial few and your clinician's assessment. Another course of treatment may be required after a few months.
BUT around 25% of patients report a near-instant perceptible lift in their mood after one single session, while up to half report improvement after the third.
While this sounds impressive (which it is), and while I am recommending considering it, I also don't want to give you any false expectations.
Any heart and / or blood pressure issues, if they occur, MAY become permanent. You may suffer some memory loss even with the very best protocols. There have been patients whose psychiatric state and quality of life were NEGATIVELY impacted and made significantly worse instead of better despite best practice.
This is called a 'paradoxical effect' and can indeed happen with many medications and physical treatments - this is because we still have SO much to learn and are dealing with so many unpredictable (because as yet unknown) factors about how the human body works.
If you are getting the impression I was trying to 'sell' ECT to you at first and now I'm trying to actively discourage you, it's neither. I made an initial suggestion relevant to your case that I am now following up with some more information.
The fact remains it is an extremely effective treatment WHEN IT WORKS as intended. The mother of a close friend of mine whom I watched suffer for many years and go through numerous therapies and prescriptions to no effect, has had her life completely turned around by receiving ECT. She is now functioning normally and no longer requires medication. And there are many others like her.
However there is also unfortunately a statistically near-equal cohort of patients for whom it either is completely ineffective or actually counter-productive.
While ECT was unjustly categorically demonised by some, it is also not controversial for no reason. It can be absolutely life-changing, but it remains an aggressive treatment that carries some substantial risks. Again because there is still so much we do not know about the brain.
It absolutely is something of a dice-roll and positive effects can NOT be guaranteed.
PS As the saying goes, "a desperate disease requires a desperate remedy." Think high-risk, high-reward. How desperate are you -?
Personally, if I can just about cope, I'd exhaust every other option first. If after that I am still dealing with crippling depression and acute SI every day, I would absolutely find it worth the risk. My partner, who is diagnosed schizophrenic, which routinely comes with the most debilitating, persistent and dangerous depressive states, is currently weighing his options after long consideration.
At the end of the day you have to make that assessment of your circumstances, and that judgement for yourself. Feel free to message me with any questions.Last edited:
TheUltimateFixx
Bluelighter
What you are illustrating here is the difference between exogenous and endogenous depression. One meaning 'caused from without' and the other meaning 'caused from within'.
Another word for exogenous is reactive depression, ie the state is the direct result of, and somewhat understandable response to, adverse life circumstances. This tends to be helped by talking therapy, for obvious reasons.
While endogenous or 'self-created' depression has no direct link to adverse circumstance (though can obviously be worsened by that), and is thought to be caused by an imbalance in certain neurotransmitters; therefore the recourse of choice for treatment is psychotropics.
