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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Hey look, barbituates!!!

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benzopiate10

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Feb 2, 2010
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i need to know how to basically perform some david blain shit. i have a newly prescribed script of Fioricet and have 5 refills of the mess. i have done research on recreational values and it sounds unpromising. APAP is trouble and caffeine would only seem to kill the barbituate buzz. 8)
Hmm.... now however if only i could extract the APAP and CAFFEINE from the BUTALBITAL it may be a different story??? 8o The ingredients are as follows:
Fioricet - Butalbital 50mg, APAP 325, Caffeine 40mg.
Grr, isolating the barbituate from this trifecta would be a bitch, but possibly possible. Does anyone have insight?
 
A CWE extraction will get rid of the APAP. The caffeine I'm not sure about, but my experience is that caffeine does not kill a downer buzz, but rather helps you stay awake to enjoy it. I have a high tolerance for caffeine, though.
 
First of all, don't post in large red font, its a bit annoying to read. It's also a pretty shitty barbituate (though I haven't had others) but I found fioricet in general to be awful...honestly seems to have no recreational value, and it isn't a large dose of caffeine so I'm guessing after a CWE this could be safe. I feel like I've seen this question asked before...
 
sorry i was under the weird impression i wouldnt be flamed for personalizing a thread. anyhow...... its not a great barbituate, but its what im working with. eliminating apap and caffeine wouldnt hurt. im thinking if i eliminate the unnecessary i can have more room to play with the pure barbituate and see if it there's a diamond in the rough - so to speak.
 
It's not a great barb no, but I don't find it worthless. Getting the APAP out is the main thing for obvious reasons.
 
Hey Benzopiate10,

I sent you the PM with the extraction idea. I'd post it here so people can comment but didn't make a copy so if you could? Also I don't get how everyone is saying just do a CWE? Unless my source for the Butalbital solubility was wrong.
 
Ok heres your PM amapola:

I have no idea on the properties of Butalbital but looked up the solubility in water (very questionable source) and it's at best 12.5% yield.

Solubilities in water...
Butalbital = 1700 mg/L http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost....&postcount=122
APAP = 12,780mg/L wikipedia
Caffeine = 21,700mg/L wikipedia

Dissolve 40 pills in a liter of water.
Filter it and collect the solids.
The solids should be 300mg of pure Butalbital with 1.7g wasted :S


===========

that just doesnt sound worth it what so ever. 40 normal pills equal 2 grams of Butalbital. but in extraction it yields only 300mg. although it might be a possibly safe and fun experience taking pure form i dont think i would be the one to donate a script towards experimentation :/
i do wonder how that trip would be, though =D
 
Yeah I know. But people keep saying use a CWE which is usually done for codeine salts which are extremely soluble to remove apap which is relatively less. So I'm confused what they are suggesting.

edit:
http://www.pharmacopeia.cn/v29240/usp29nf24s0_alpha-2-11.html
That confirms butalbital is "slightly soluble" in water so I think flyingsquirrl is a little off base with his idea.
 
Last edited:
fryingsquirrel said:
This is BDD, it's a rare question here that hasn't been ask before ;)
Click to expand...

Nah, it's not rare, this question most definitely has been asked before.

amapola said:
That confirms butalbital is "slightly soluble" in water so I think flyingsquirrl is a little off base with his idea.
Click to expand...

butalbital water solubility: 1700 mg/L = 1.7g/L = 1.7mg/mL
http://drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00241
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Nah, it's not rare, this question most definitely has been asked before.



butalbital water solubility: 1700 mg/L = 1.7g/L = 1.7mg/mL
http://drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00241
Click to expand...
I know, what I meant was questions that haven't been asked before are rare. Worded it kinda badly I guess.
 
To an extent. ive done research with no definite results other than the overload of information that FIORICET itself is a so-so drug and the least of barbituates. ive heard speculation about extraction but no such trials attempted, or experiences of what pure butalbital does. if im wrong point me in the right direction! =D
 
Okay butalbital is soluble in chloroform but acetaminophen isn't.
So you need to break up the pills and dissolve them into water. Then pour in some chloroform and shake well. Collect the now butalbital filled chloroform and repeat a few times. Let all the chloroform evaporate to get the butalbital and caffeine.

Actually butalbital isn't very soluble in water so you can either use like 50pills in a liter of hot water or 100ml of alcohol probably.
 
You could probably get ninety to ninety-five percent back depending how many times you washed it (i.e. how much chloroform you want to use.)

edit: sorry that's loss due to just competing equilibrium solubility etc. not manual loss so you would need a good seperatory funnel setup as well.
 
well id like to maybe explore further the extraction, im somewhat knowledgeable in other extractions and pulls but a multiple chloroform wash sounds confusing and the funnel well idk where the hell i would start.
when and if you have the time could you throw me a guide in PM in laymans terms to make this possible? because a yield that high sounds worth it!
 
Hmmm I could if you like. There isn't much more to tell though I'll try and put it step for step for you here. A lot of it though I could only find out hands on doing it with trial and error.

Let's say you start with 100 pills grounded up.
-APAP=32.5g
-Caffeine=5g
-Butalbital=4g
-a lot of pill binders and fillers

1. Stir all the powder into alcohol.
-I'm guessing 100ml of methanol would be a good place to start. (no real idea though!?!)
-The butalbital and APAP are soluble and should completely dissolve.
-The caffeine is sparingly soluble and hopefully some will stay in solid form.
-Don't know about the binders but hopefully most of them will stay out as well.

2. Filter the alcohol solution
-The butalbital and APAP will stay in solution and pass through the filter.
-Some of the caffeine and the binders will hopefully get caught in the filter.

3. Wash with chloroform.
-The butalbital is soluble in chloroform.
-The APAP is insoluble in chloroform.
-The remaining caffeine is soluble in chloroform.

3a. add 50ml of chloroform to the alcohol and shake well
3b. collect the chloroform layer and set aside
3c. add 50ml of chloroform to the alcohol and shake well
3d. collect the chloroform layer and set aside
3e. add 50ml of chloroform to the alcohol and shake well
3f. collect the chloroform layer and set aside

Each wash should take ~half of the remaining butalbital and almost all of the caffeine. So you should now have 150ml of chloroform with 4.5g of butalbital and the caffeine you weren't able to extract in the first filter.

4. evaporate
The easiest thing to do now is let all the chloroform evaporate in an evaporation dish or under gentle heat to obtain your solid.

That's about it. There is probably a better acid base extraction but I had honestly never heard of butalbital before you asked about it and I don't care to learn much more.

Enjoy!
 
Aren't alcohol and chloroform miscible? >.>

If you milled them finely enough, you could just extract the powder with chloroform, and evaporate it to yield a mixture of caffeine and butalbital.

But then you're working with chloroform... who the hell wants to do that?


It's been noted that butalbital solubility is PH dependent - unlike most drugs, it's soluble in basic water, and not soluble in acidic water - so extract pills with basic water, acidify the water, and extract with a non-polar solvent that APAP is not soluble in and which butalbital is. Anything really non-polar will not dissolve the APAP, but i'm not sure which will dissolve butalbital.
 
^^Haha you are right. It's like my brain is on drugs or something ;) I had water but then realized butalbital wasn't soluble enough in it so did a find/replace with alcohol...clearly not logical. Umm yeah so use basic water instead of alcohol.
 
I see. I may just wait and try to find an alternative where i wouldnt have to deal with chloroform. If i do ill post my findings ;)
 
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